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Celtic 09/08/15 Match Thread


potty trained
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I have not seen the highlights but at the time I thought he jumped to block the cross and did so with his hand which was above his head. Now whether his hand was there for balance or he just decided to do a Highland Jig is not the issue surely it was not a "natural position" which is what I believe the rules state. Anyway, it is done now but I do hope the refs remember how it appears to work now if that happens to one of our defenders.

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Pffft. That was nothing more than a glorified defenders vs attackers training excercise; and there was zero physicality 'til Pogba came on to get in about them.

 

On days like today I really miss the Lambie approach; if you don't win the battle your flair players can't play and you'll win feck all.

 

I can take losing to Celtic, but I'm finding it hard to take that one today. Very disgruntled.

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I know it's not popular but 17 straight losses against Celtic under various managers tells you something. The last three wins v Celtic ( I have been at all three) have come when Celtic were on their uppers. Prior to 92, how many league points did we gain at Firhill since reconstruction?

 

It was about damage limitation and getting the young centre backs through the game with minimal carnage. Objective achieved.

 

Personally I don't care about these games. Take the positives. Move on. After the first game on a plastic pitch and an un winnable game today, the season starts on Wednesday.

 

If you want to play championship manager and fantasise about how a different approach would have yield better results, crack on. The history books blow that one out of the water.

 

 

Ps Celtic are a league ahead of Aberdeen. We can certainly give them a game.

Edited by La Scimmia Rossa
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Disagree with the Red Monkey entirely. White flag was hoist with the starting line-up and that transmitted to the stands as well as to the team if you ask me.

Celtic have had many poor results immediately after Euro games. We were at home. We should be far more positive than we were.

Points about Doolan have already been shot down.

Anyway, two important games coming up. Hopefully we will be better against Killie than last time. See you there.

 

Personally I don't think it would've made any significant difference if Doolan had started instead of Stevenson. To me the problem looked more isolation rather than personnel.

As to whether not selecting a striker threw up a negative psychological message I've no idea. Nothing was going to go our way while we stood off Celtic and didn't get in their face. That to me was more the problem rather than the Doolan/Stevenson selection.

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I know it's not popular but 17 straight losses against Celtic under various managers tells you something. The last three wins v Celtic ( I have been at all three) have come when Celtic were on their uppers. Prior to 92, how many league points did we gain at Firhill since reconstruction?

 

It was about damage limitation and getting the young centre backs through the game with minimal carnage. Objective achieved.

 

Personally I don't care about these games. Take the positives. Move on. After the first game on a plastic pitch and an un winnable game today, the season starts on Wednesday.

 

If you want to play championship manager and fantasise about how a different approach would have yield better results, crack on. The history books blow that one out of the water.

 

 

Ps Celtic are a league ahead of Aberdeen. We can certainly give them a game.

I have only seen us beat Celtic once...October '71...they had 4 European Cup Winners plus Dalglish, Macari, David Hay & George Connelly.

 

I don't go to games against the Old Firm mainly because I don't like the atmosphere...but giving up our stadium and failing to give them a game don't encourage me to go.

 

We have no chance of competing against Celtic over the course of a season but our record of 17 consecutive defeats( I think it may actually be more than that) against them is pathetic. The Jukebox Rebel is always being asked obscure statistical queries on here - so does any team which has been in the top League since 1992 have a worse record against Celtic for consecutive defeats?

 

It's not unrealistic to hope and expect we could do a bit better.

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Sorry - I'm not buying into this "we've always been crap against Celric so we shouldn't bother" line.

 

It's a competitive game. The aim of playing game is to win. I know that Celtic have a better budget, better players etc. but Ross County beat them last season. So did St Johnstone. So did Accies. So they're not unbeatable.

 

But not to have a real go till the last 10 minutes was shocking.

 

But some on here seem to think that was okay.

 

Sad.

 

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I don't think there's anything in the laws of the game about hands/arms being in an unatural position, it hinges on whether the ref thinks it was deliberate. The ball didn't strike Lustig's arm when he jumped, it hit it after he'd landed and was attempting to stay on his feet.

It's not in the laws. However, referees are given guidelines of how they should interpret the rules, they get a new set every season added on to what has gone before. They've tried to make it easier for the referee to decide about handball in the box but it's not really working as different ref's are making different decisions in similar circumstances. It's just frustrating when the same teams seem to benefit so much from these decisions. You can bet if Willie Collum had been officiating and the same thing happened at the other end, Celtic would have got a penalty. ;)
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Never a penalty, if we'd had one awarded against us in similar circumstances I'd be fecking furious.

 

Got to mirror some of the comments above about our forelock tugging approach to the game, can't believe we barely touched them for the first third of the game. Yes, they're bigger and better than us but for fecks sake, stick a few tackles in. Anything to maybe make them think a bit, we stood back and let them control every aspect of the game. That was the bit that disappointed / angered me.

 

Thought the centre halves did well, loved the header six inches from the ground, thought Booth did OK until his zone out that led to their second goal but thought Miller was dire. Never went in 100% for the challenge and cost us the first goal and gave Izaguirre way, way too much time and space. How many times did he let his man get behind him into a crossing position in the first half an hour? Six or seven times? Hope Elliott is fit soon.

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The penalty issue? Never a penalty.

 

What LIB said:

 

"Personally I don't think it would've made any significant difference if Doolan had started instead of Stevenson. To me the problem looked more isolation rather than personnel.

As to whether not selecting a striker threw up a negative psychological message I've no idea. Nothing was going to go our way while we stood off Celtic and didn't get in their face. That to me was more the problem rather than the Doolan/Stevenson selection."

 

We absolutely have to get right in their faces. That Droghba chap should have been on earlier.

 

The two centre backs looked like they had been playing in this league all their lives.

 

Celtic's first goal was either incredibly brilliant or incredible lucky. I have watched it a few times and I think fortunate sums it up.

 

Agree with the comments about their left winger, we should have been much tighter on him.

 

Bit pissed off, to be honest. That game was drawable if not winnable. Celtic were allowed to dominate and that is never, ever, going to serve us well.

 

Is it really all those years ago that we beat Celtic at Hampden when they were decamped from Parkhead?

 

Jesus, I am getting old.

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I know it's not popular but 17 straight losses against Celtic under various managers tells you something. The last three wins v Celtic ( I have been at all three) have come when Celtic were on their uppers. Prior to 92, how many league points did we gain at Firhill since reconstruction?

 

It was about damage limitation and getting the young centre backs through the game with minimal carnage. Objective achieved.

 

Personally I don't care about these games. Take the positives. Move on. After the first game on a plastic pitch and an un winnable game today, the season starts on Wednesday.

 

If you want to play championship manager and fantasise about how a different approach would have yield better results, crack on. The history books blow that one out of the water.

 

 

Ps Celtic are a league ahead of Aberdeen. We can certainly give them a game.

 

Are you at the wind up? The objective was damage limitation and you know this how?

Did Archie or one of the players contact you and tell you our aim was to keep the score down? Aye right. If it is the objective of the club not to try against Celtic then the fans are due a refund.

 

Imagine trying something different to get a different result. Maybe just play our game to our strengths.

 

And how much better than us do you need to be for us not to try?

 

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Spot on Barney. Celtic are probably far better than any other team in Scotland. Can't understand why the officials feel they have to help them out with these decisions every other week. We all know if it were the other way round, the decision would be different.

 

This pretty much sums up how I have felt since the first time I was aware of Thistle playing either of the ugly sisters. If they are not going to beat us fair and square on their own the referee will intervene with a massive helping hand. I think my introduction to this was listening to reports coming in on the radio from ibrox on new years day 71 or 72. Jags one up after 90 minutes, 2-1 losers after 98 minutes. Essentially it was a case of keep on playing until rangers won. The list of major game changing incidednts that have gone against us throughout the years is incredible, who remembers Gerry Briton's ridiculous red card (later rescindid) against rangers at Firhill. Can anyone actually remember a rangers or celtic player being red carded against us? What about Bobby Houston's goal against rangers in the last minute of the scottish cup semi being chopped off or Tom Smith's goal at parkhead and there was another goal chopped off in a 0-0 with celtic during their season at Hampden.

 

What I'm trying to say is that it has been one way traffic from referees for decades and as Willijag points out the teams that the referees are helping are the ones that need their help the least. Whether that assistance is given through bias or fear I couldn't say althought I strongly suspect the former. The most upsetting part of all this is how the media just regard these horrifically one sided performaces by the officials as the accepted norm. After all we are just cannon fodder for the big boys :angry3:

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That was pretty grim. Like others, I felt we were far too timid and nervous in the first 30 minutes. We seemed to lack belief and as a consequence resorted to the doomed strategy of hurling long balls towards Stevenson, who didn't stand a chance against Van Dijk and Boyata. After the first goal, when we started to play the ball on the deck, we looked better and grew in confidence, but we never looked like getting anything out of the game.

 

There were, however, some positives to be taken from the match:

 

Welsh was our best player in my opinion. He was composed, retained possession well, and tried to press higher up he pitch.

 

Osman did a decent defensive job.

 

I feared for Hendry and Lindsay but, aside from the odd sloppy pass, they rarely put a foot wrong. I liked that Hendry started to step out of defence with the ball, particularly in the second half; he looks a real prospect.

 

Pogba looked a handful when he came on.

 

Also, Gary Fraser looked good when he came on. He consistently looked for a forward pass rather playing the safe ball across the pitch. I really hope he can play his way back into contention for a place in the starting eleven.

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Watching the game on BT, even the commentators mentioned how easy the first half hour was for them.

 

I guess when you start the game with 2 midfielders in front 3 positions it was inevitable how it was going to pan out as we were set up for damage limitation.

 

So for those who reckon it was right decision to go that way, do you not think then the fans (that did bother to attend) have been short changed?

 

If the other games against them this season follow the same pattern, I can see why the club wouldn't want to sell non OF season tickets as there would be literally no home crowd in these games.

 

It's an entertainment business. We're haemorrhaging fans. Is yesterday going to attract any of the stay at home fans back?

 

If they watched the game on BT sport or listened to the radio comms describe it as a glorified training session then it's a definite no.

 

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Never a penalty, if we'd had one awarded against us in similar circumstances I'd be fecking furious.

We did twice last season against Osman. The guys hand was way up in an unnatural position and the ball was going to a dangerous area, whether he was facing it or not is irrelevant. Should have been a penalty and pretty sure it would have been given at the other end of the park

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The interesting thing about the "penalty" is that the referee got it right - other than that his decision making was at best questionable and his conduct re- Stevenson wanting back on after his head bandaging was frankly pitiful (even the commentators made that point).

 

The unfortunate aspect regarding the "penalty" is that there will be circumstances this season where a spot-kick will be given for a similar, involuntary hand-ball. Such inconsistency is seemingly impossible to eradicate and the only variable might be the circumstances which surround any incorrect award - I would suspect, however, that there might be a thread of consistency regarding the recipients of any such contentious decisions, and the victims thereof.

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Whether or not we should have had a penalty is a moot point. The fact that we never put a foot in against them to win a ball was a bigger factor in our capitulation. Strachan got it spot on when he said it looked exactly like a training exercise for Celtic. Try to shut down space, but don't make any tackles.

 

I know it's all about opinions, but I'm amazed to see a few people saying Miller had a good game. He improved a bit in the 2nd half, and I can only assume it was due to Archie giving him a bit of a reminder at half time, that he wasn't playing centre back. If Armstrong wasn't hooked early, we might have lost a lot more goals from that side. A big part of the reason that Lawless was ineffective was because he spent the first half trying to cover the whole right side of the pitch. Can only hope he's still getting up to speed, but I'd have Elliott in there every time on this sort of display.

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In a way I can see where LSR is coming from, though it doesn't mean I agree with it. The two young boys at the back could have had their confidence destroyed if we had got a thumping, however being totally honest, I think they are too good for that to have happened. Two of the best prospects we have seen at Firhill in a long, long time. In reality I thought we were dreadful. Just why we don't have a go against them is baffling. If Celtic have a flaw, it's in defence. I don't think we should be playing like that against any team in the league, especially at home. Thought Archie got his team totally wrong, especially up front. Why were Dools and Pogs on the bench after seeing how ineffectual Stevo was as lone front man, last season? Thought Miller was poor, especially at the first goal, Lawless, Wilson and Stevo were very poor. Things only looked up when Amoo and Pogba came on. Even this early in the season we have two real big games this week.

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Would rather have seen us have a right go at them and go down 3-5 than what I watched yeterday.

 

Who knows maybe the shock of a team having a right go and being right in their faces may have unsettled them enough to get a result ?

 

Yesterday was sadly all so predictable from the standard of refereeing to the watching the manky mob walk away with another easy 3 points without even conceding a goal.

 

I will be back next time we play them but I can understand why many won't.

Edited by Jaggy1967
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