Vs. Killie

[jlsarmy]

Just back from Kilmarnock, and Archie should do the sensible thing if he has any respect for himself or PTFC and resign.

Used to be you had the confidence when it came to half time you thought the players would come out motivated for the 2nd half, for whatever reasons that has now gone . Even today why did it take until we had lost our 4th goal did Archie bring on Woods for Lawless, most managers would have changed it straight away if it wasn't working to either affect the game or even as a last throw of the dice .

Too many luxury players not up for the fight Barton , Lawless , Spittal etc., we persist on playing the same system week in week out regardless of what players are available . Let's go back to 4411 with possibly Fraser , Woods in the midfield for a bit of dig , Archie picks the same players regardless of whether they've lost the week before and IMO it's going to cost him his job.

Implications of relegation are frightening for the club financially not to make a decision on the management team .

[Third Lanark]

I'd be perfectly happy with Duffy or McCall.

 

Either change now to give the new man a chance or leave Archie in charge till end of contract.

what do you think Duffy has done in management to be given a chance with us - very little?

[Third Lanark]

Just back from Kilmarnock, and Archie should do the sensible thing if he has any respect for himself or PTFC and resign.

Used to be you had the confidence when it came to half time you thought the players would come out motivated for the 2nd half, for whatever reasons that has now gone . Even today why did it take until we had lost our 4th goal did Archie bring on Woods for Lawless, most managers would have changed it straight away if it wasn't working to either affect the game or even as a last throw of the dice .

Too many luxury players not up for the fight Barton , Lawless , Spittal etc., we persist on playing the same system week in week out regardless of what players are available . Let's go back to 4411 with possibly Fraser , Woods in the midfield for a bit of dig , Archie picks the same players regardless of whether they've lost the week before and IMO it's going to cost him his job.

Implications of relegation are frightening for the club financially not to make a decision on the management team .

while spittal has been poor he has probably done better than most of our other players-his goals and assists are why we are not further down - by their standards Doolan and erskine are having poor seasons - they are jags legends yes but they are having poor seasons. You failed to mention Edwards if that’s not the definition of a luxury player then I don’t know what is- do you really think Edwards is playing well?

[Guest]

No one is playing well third, it seems the players have chucked it. I wonder why, Money/conditions/manager/coaching staff...........

[Auld Jag]

I have seen in the past some on this forum say if we go down,we would bounce back with young home grown players,that will not happen.Since the premier league started it has taken us at least 9 seasons to get back in the top league.ICT lost at least £1.2m because of relegation and look at where they are in the championship just now.

[CotterJag]

Anything above 10th is an incredible feat for us? No it’s not, we are close to being an established club in this league, we have been above 10th the last few years, and this year we have actually spend a considerable amount of cash for Thistle, we’ve went from 11th place in terms of wages to 7th (if the report in papers are to be believed).

If we go down, the cash drops, players want to leave (maybe not a bad thing), and it could take us years to get back up.

 

If the board does nothing (Either sacking Archie, or give him considerable funds in January) it sends the message to all at the club from the fans to the players that failure is acceptable, so what’s the point if we’re not bothered about competing.

 

I want Archie to succeed but more importantly I want Thistle to succeed

I want to us to be where you think we already are.

I'm not convinced we're anything more than an 11th to 9th placed team just yet.

We are close to being established but are not quite there as yet.

Top 6 last year was incredible for me and I'd happily just do enough to stay up while the building of a far better club goes on behind the scenes; investment in players, academy, training facilities and management team etc.

 

Agree that new players are required in January and would prefer this to a new manager.

 

Archie has never let us down before and we are close to being established because of him and the wider team.

 

A new manager could do well but sacking one that has accomplished so much and has knocked back other offers to do so, wouldn't sit well with me.

[angry gaz]

while spittal has been poor he has probably done better than most of our other players-his goals and assists are why we are not further down - by their standards Doolan and erskine are having poor seasons - they are jags legends yes but they are having poor seasons. You failed to mention Edwards if that’s not the definition of a luxury player then I don’t know what is- do you really think Edwards is playing well?

 

You could solve quite a few of the above problems by getting Barton to feck out of the midfield. For me he is a major negative in the team. Far too slow with his passes and couldnae tackle a fish supper. If I knew he was starting against Motherwell I would genuinely think twice about going.Archie has to come up with something completely different against Well or he'll be out by the end of the week.

Ive said several times ,playing Barton week in week out will cost Archie his job and now he's on the brink.

[Barney Rubble]

Woods and Fraser as defensive mids please Archie - Barton into the back three/four/five and Edwards behind the striker. Play them in their favoured and best positions.

 

And fully agree with Auld Jag, if/when we go down, the good progress that has been slowly and painfully built since McCall took over 10 years ago goes all the way back down to square one.

 

That's unthinkable.

[Auld Jag]

If Archie leaves Thistle he will get another job and a chance to prove himself again.If we go down, how long will it take for us to get back in the top league and what damage will it do to us?

[jaggy]

I'd be perfectly happy with Duffy or McCall.

 

Either change now to give the new man a chance or leave Archie in charge till end of contract.

Seriously? Championship managers at best. Of course at the moment that’s where we’re headed

[Metz]

Peter Houston would be my pick. In the past 7 years he has won a Scottish Cup with United, and got a runners-up Scottish Cup medal with Falkirk. I know winning and getting to the finals of major tournaments seems foreign to Jags fans, but it's apparently a sign of a successful club...

He finished in 2nd with Falkirk two seasons in a row, but for some reason started slowly this season. Still think he's a good manager, and would steady the ship.

So a manager who couldn't get out of the Championship and was sacked as his board were worried they would be relegated from the same Championship is the answer?

Anyone but Archie I suppose!!

[MonehJags]

The only reason we finished in the top 6 last year was because every other team that finished below us were so poor. The fact Hamilton are so far ahead of us at the moment speaks volumes

[Weebaw1]

I agree with Barney that this may be the end of the upwards cycle.

 

I was thinking today that perhaps Archie can't take us any further and recalled the state we were in when McCall took over. He, the board, the players and subsequent managers did a magnificent resurgence job with a club that was punching well below its weight after a succession of dud managers.

 

It's a hard job to prevent a stream turning into a torrent.

 

Archie should've revamped the team, especially the midfield, after the awful Hibs game instead of claiming that we played well and deserved something out of the game. If Hibs had been better we would have had a tanking last week too.

 

Act now Archie and change the team now.

 

[dibble]

I'd be happy to stick with Archie if I knew the players were right behind him and giving it their all. If the players are not and he begins to loose the dressing room then there needs to be a change. I've heard a few things about the squad and maybe things ain't quite right in the dressing room. These things are fine when your winning but surface when the results ain't going for you. I wonder if longer contracts for players, plus some players coming in getting paid more etc. has started to unsettle things with players not quite giving that bit extra.

 

Not sure whether anyone else would make a difference at the helm to be honest.

[Mr Bunny]

Woods and Fraser as defensive mids please Archie - Barton into the back three/four/five and Edwards behind the striker. Play them in their favoured and best positions.

 

And fully agree with Auld Jag, if/when we go down, the good progress that has been slowly and painfully built since McCall took over 10 years ago goes all the way back down to square one.

 

That's unthinkable.

 

Disagree about the effect of relegation. Of course it will be tough on the club and it is never easy to come back up again quickly but I think the club is in a much better place now (putting aside league position) than it has been for ... well, a few decades. I've actually said to some of my mates - in weeks before - that if we did go down we are much more likely to be at the very least steady in the Championship, rather than go into free-fall as of old.

 

We have a better board (and are better run at that level) than we've had for decades. We have no debt. We have a proper youth development and the potential to bring in young players (who could handle the lower division even if not ready for higher levels). On this point one thing the management should be doing now - and should have already - is give some of these promising young guys new contracts so we can keep them whether we we stay up or go down. I wouldn't predict us necessarily coming straight up but I believe we'd certainly be challenging for promotion.

 

So yes, relegation would certainly be a reversal for the club but it couldn't in any way be described as going back to square one. Of course I'd prefer it if we didn't go down.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mr Bunny

[Yellow & Redneck]

So a manager who couldn't get out of the Championship and was sacked as his board were worried they would be relegated from the same Championship is the answer? Anyone but Archie I suppose!!

The Championship is exactly where we are heading with everyone's favorite bodywarmer wearing excuse-machine at the helm. We have been absolutely chronic since April, and neither the manager nor his players seem capable of reversing ourselves out of the dead-end that we have driven ourselves into. The responsibility ultimately lies with the gaffer, and lets be frank, he has got it horribly wrong this season. Jordan Turnbull is a player that Coventry City fans wanted to see released, Paul McGinn is the Bells 1st Division personified, Milan Nitriansky is a completely scarecrow, Martin Woods hasn't touched a ball in the best part of a year, Conor Sammon is a useless gonk, and Storey doesn't seem like an improvement on Azeez. It is beggars belief that the players that we are really relying on are those that were brought in under Ian McCall!

So this isn't a vendetta against Archie. But I'm not going to let his past achievements get in the way of being intellectually honest about where we are this season. He should have gone in the summer. 6th place is as far as a club like ours is going to get in the league, so I am stunned he either didn't get offered the jobs down south, or didn't take them. So if you're to ask me honestly, do I think Peter Houston etc. would do a better job at the moment than Archie is, I think the answer is "yes." In my opinion.

[Guest]

Agreed Mr B but it foesnt mean we play the fiddle while firhill burns. Something is wrong with the attitude and spirit in the dressing room the togetherness is missing and that's down to the coaching staff and players, it's only them who can fix it. I'll keep going to firhill but i'm done doing away days. I don't mind giving other clubs my cash when we're pumping them or at least making a fist of it

[Barney Rubble]

Disagree about the effect of relegation. Of course it will be tough on the club and it is never easy to come back up again quickly but I think the club is in a much better place now (putting aside league position) than it has been for ... well, a few decades. I've actually said to some of my mates - in weeks before - that if we did go down we are much more likely to be at the very least steady in the Championship, rather than go into free-fall as of old.

 

We have a better board (and are better run at that level) than we've had for decades. We have no debt. We have a proper youth development and the potential to bring in young players (who could handle the lower division even if not ready for higher levels. (On this point one thing the management should be doing now - and should have already - is give some of these promising young guys new contracts so we can keep them whether we we stay up or go down. I wouldn't predict us necessarily coming straight up but I believe we'd certainly be challenging for promotion.

 

Of course I'd prefer it if we didn't go down.

 

Respect your opinion, but I'd rather we didn't test your theory.

 

In my opinion, if we go down we will undo everything that Ian, Jackie and Archie have built in one fell swoop. Teams that go down do not normally come straight back up. Off the top of my head can only think of Hibs 99 and Hearts 15 that have managed it (could be others though).

 

Financially, the better place that you allude to goes straight out the door with relegation, TV fees down, players leave because they want to play at the top level, players get paid off because top-division contracts cannot be honoured anymore. Less revenue as fans will drop off because folk won't pay 22 quid to watch a championship team when a premiership top 6 is still fresh in the memory.

 

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[jlsarmy]

Woods and Fraser as defensive mids please Archie - Barton into the back three/four/five and Edwards behind the striker. Play them in their favoured and best positions.

 

And fully agree with Auld Jag, if/when we go down, the good progress that has been slowly and painfully built since McCall took over 10 years ago goes all the way back down to square one.

 

That's unthinkable.

The system we're playing just now isn't working with the players we've got , no wing backs etc , got to get more physicality into the team , would rather a midfield that isn't defined as attacking or sitting midfielders just a workmanlike midfield which competes and tackles.

Today we got bullied all over the park same as we did at Motherwell

Tactical naivety

[Vaila Street]

 

 

On this point one thing the management should be doing now - and should have already - is give some of these promising young guys new contracts so we can keep them whether we we stay up or go down.

Like who? Disgracefully despite a long run in the top league there isn't one young player ready to step up. More interested in burning through cash in youth team jollys abroad than doing their job - preparing potential first team players.

[Metz]

 

The Championship is exactly where we are heading with everyone's favorite bodywarmer wearing excuse-machine at the helm. We have been absolutely chronic since April, and neither the manager nor his players seem capable of reversing ourselves out of the dead-end that we have driven ourselves into. The responsibility ultimately lies with the gaffer, and lets be frank, he has got it horribly wrong this season. Jordan Turnbull is a player that Coventry City fans wanted to see released, Paul McGinn is the Bells 1st Division personified, Milan Nitriansky is a completely scarecrow, Martin Woods hasn't touched a ball in the best part of a year, Conor Sammon is a useless gonk, and Storey doesn't seem like an improvement on Azeez. It is beggars belief that the players that we are really relying on are those that were brought in under Ian McCall!

So this isn't a vendetta against Archie. But I'm not going to let his past achievements get in the way of being intellectually honest about where we are this season. He should have gone in the summer. 6th place is as far as a club like ours is going to get in the league, so I am stunned he either didn't get offered the jobs down south, or didn't take them. So if you're to ask me honestly, do I think Peter Houston etc. would do a better job at the moment than Archie is, I think the answer is "yes." In my opinion.

The complete lack of respect and dishonesty about his qualities clearly says more about you than it does Archie.

To say he should have gone in the summer is completely disingenuous, no doubt you would have been berating him for leaving and wishing ill like many did with Jackie.

[Third Lanark]

 

Like who? Disgracefully despite a long run in the top league there isn't one young player ready to step up. More interested in burning through cash in youth team jollys abroad than doing their job - preparing potential first team players.

penrice?

[Vaila Street]

penrice?

Kicked a ball for Thistle this season?

[Yellow & Redneck]

The complete lack of respect and dishonesty about his qualities clearly says more about you than it does Archie. To say he should have gone in the summer is completely disingenuous, no doubt you would have been berating him for leaving and wishing ill like many did with Jackie.

No, I in fact wouldn't. As I stated on here earlier on, I knew from the moment the split was over at the end of last season, that we were relegation candidates for this campaign. He quite clearly had taken us to the precipice of his ability in achieving a 6th place finish, and was hardly going to take us higher. So I said over the summer, and you can check the post if you like, that it would have been a good option for both parties for Thistle to inject some fresh thinking into the club, and for Archie to take on a new challenge in a new league. I have been consistent on this point for the best part of 8 months now.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Just in the door and scanned a good few posts. Easy to miss but can anyone direct me to a post that mentions Tomas Cerny?