stuart_adam Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Give Archie the Motherwell and Dundee games. If anything less than 3 pts, we should turn our attention to Jack Ross. Yes it would be a gamble, but look what he’s achieved last season and so far this season, they looked dead and buried last season, yet he kept them up and now has them 2nd in League. Honestly can’t believe we aren’t looking at him as an option. Archie is a club legend, has done great for us since he took over. But 2 league wins out of 16 is a sackable offence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Why would Jack Ross leave St M to join us? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 We are bottom of the league and therefore the worst team in the league but luckily because our manager had kept us in the premiership we are really mid table ... phew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Wondering where is the money to sack Archie so if the ones that want him sacked have a whip round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 The board need to consider the financial risks involved with keeping him on and blindly stumbling towards relegation. I think they'd find the money to pay them off no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 If they do not have an overdraft they do not have money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted December 10, 2017 Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 Do you think the club is skint? Where's that coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 It's worth asking yourselves folks, that with the exception of Booth and Elliot, are any of the injured players returning going to do us much good? We seem to be pinning our hopes on players coming back, but forgetting that of those players: Bannigan has barely kicked a ball in 2 years and was bang average at the start of the season. Osman was off the pace for the best part of a year, and many of us last season were saying he should be dropped for his form. Muzzy hasn't kicked a ball for a year, and probably won't do so again and Fraser is in exactly the same situation in regards to the amount of match time he has gotten. Exactly. When Welsh finally made his return, "underwhelming" was an apt description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Relegation is a football and financial disaster and would destroy all the good work of the last few seasons plus most relegated teams struggle to get promotion This is a big week for Archie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 The board need to consider the financial risks involved with keeping him on and blindly stumbling towards relegation. I think they'd find the money to pay them off no problem. Of course, the board might think it is a bigger financial risk to pay him(and Paterson)off, bring in a new manager,provide funds for players in January and still stumble towards relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_adam Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Why would Jack Ross leave St M to join us? Why not? We are an established premiership team that finished top 6 last year, yes we are in danger, but at the moment we are a bigger club than St Mirren, even if we go down theres no guarantee they will come up... that league is so tight at the moment. I just feel given our situation we should be looking at Ross as a successor especially if we are sacking Archie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Its clear that Archie wont get sacked. Its already too late to do so. We would really need to win 4 of the next 6 games before the year is up just to drag us back into the pack and off the bottom. Realistically we will be doing very well to take 8 points from those 6 games. As for giving Archie more funds in January, would you trust him not to spend it on more extra's from an episode of casualty? Should the board make the 'drastic' measure and release Archie, there will be plenty of CV's being emailed for Maxwell to sift through. Some people on here really don't think very much of us. We may be bottom of the league but off the pitch we are an attractive proposition to anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Interested to know why people generally think sacking Archie would be an answer. Is it because: He was always a bad manager? He is a decent manager but has lost faith/trust of the players? He has been a decent manager but has lost his touch? We are on a bad run, and a new manager is likely to kick-start us to better things? I understand the frustration, but not sure I'd go along with any of the above. Any other reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Interested to know why people generally think sacking Archie would be an answer. Is it because: He was always a bad manager? He is a decent manager but has lost faith/trust of the players? He has been a decent manager but has lost his touch? We are on a bad run, and a new manager is likely to kick-start us to better things? I understand the frustration, but not sure I'd go along with any of the above. Any other reasons? Too rigid an approach to tactics: insisting that only one system is the way to go, even when the players best suited to it are not available. In the short term, there has been a thrawn attitude of refusing to make a sub before the game is already won and lost; over the seasons, the same attitude is shown in refusing to change the system when key positions in the former system cannot be filled. Given the size of our squad, the team is paying for that lack of flexibility now. We're still dependent on players who should by this time be thinking of hanging up their boots, but introducing younger players seems to be like drawing teeth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 I'm as frustrated as anyone with the position we are in and Saturday's performance was obviously abysmal, probably the worst of the season. However, I still think we can get out of it if we can get back in touch with the teams above us before the break. Confidence is a huge part of football, or sport in general for that matter. Players take one more touch one the ball, are over cautious and scared of making mistakes. They start to choose the wrong options and it creates a knock on effect on all performances and most decisions become the wrong ones.The thing is, management is no different. You start to question if you are doing the right thing. Choosing the correct training methods, picking the right formation, and the players to play. Do you stay loyal to guys who you know have done well before but are off form or do you bite the bullet and drop them, bringing in someone with lesser game time under their belt, in the hope they provide a spark? Archie will be low on confidence, that's for sure but he is being let down badly by his players at the moment. How can he legislate for the mistakes that an experienced keeper like Tomas Cerny has been making? Does he drop him? Bring in Scully, who doesn't exactly have a good record, to a team low in confidence? I was never Barton's biggest fan, and like most prefer him in the middle of a back three. However, everybody know he can play better than he is. The list goes on. Every one of the players is playing with fear and they need a couple of results to go for us to get out of it. I reckon there have been two major problems this season. One is the long term injuries. Not just the amount but where they have been. All full backs and central midfielders. Osman and Bannigan would make a difference to midfield, as would a fully fit Gary Fraser. Not having a left back has killed us as well with Booth, Penrice and Elliott all unavailable. Secondly, our inability to sign a decent striker in the summer has been a huge issue. Storey and Sammon are not the answer as they cannot keep possession in the other team's half for any sustained period (never mind scoring goals). Ade Azeez wasn't exactly the answer either but at least he was able to cause defences some problems with his strength and pace. It just isn't sticking and it is putting pressure on our defence with the ball constantly coming back at us. We need to get a good striker in January. It is going to be tough but if we can sneak a win out of or next two games it will give us something to build on. Everyone keeps talking about the injured players coming back but we have 15 points to play for before the shut down so we need to do something soon with the players we have. I believe Archie can get us out of this but we clearly need to get a break somewhere. Also, with the management signing three year contracts last season, I don't think there is any way they will be sacked. Pretty sure the club won't want to pay out substantial pay offs and risk bring another manager in to get us out of trouble. If they part company with the club I'm pretty sure it will be Archie handing in his resignation but I just can't see that either. Difficult in times like this I know but the management and players need our support. There's no point in only being there for them when things are going well. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Too rigid an approach to tactics: insisting that only one system is the way to go, even when the players best suited to it are not available. In the short term, there has been a thrawn attitude of refusing to make a sub before the game is already won and lost; over the seasons, the same attitude is shown in refusing to change the system when key positions in the former system cannot be filled. Given the size of our squad, the team is paying for that lack of flexibility now. We're still dependent on players who should by this time be thinking of hanging up their boots, but introducing younger players seems to be like drawing teeth. The first couple of seasons we came up, Archie never moved from a 4-2-3-1 formation, which frustrated a lot of fans, myself included. However, that can't be said for this season as he seems to be clutching at straws to find the best way to play, given the injuries we have in certain positions. I'm pretty sure he never signed Jordan Turnbull to play left back, Lawless as wing back and McGinn to be starting every game. The last two games have seen us line up 4-4-1-1 and he has tried 3-5-2 on numerous occasions this season, as well as his preferred 4-2-3-1. It may be the case that injuries have forced the changes but I don't think he can be criticised this season for not changing formation. I do agree with you that he could make better use of substitutes sometimes though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northjag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 We should all support Archie. Want us to be a club who does things better than a Dundee or killie who just sack their managers all the time. We have just lost our identity this season because of all the injuries. You can tell that the new signings have made it hard for the team to gel. The team spirit isn't as good as it used to be. But we should keep faith with archie. He will turn it around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 That’s the Dundee and Killie above us in the league is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaila Street Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 We have just lost our identity this season because of all the injuries. You can tell that the new signings have made it hard for the team to gel. The team spirit isn't as good as it used to be. I have to say I don't see any of the casualties supposedly nearing fitness exactly busting a gut to get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 The last two games have seen us line up 4-4-1-1 and he has tried 3-5-2 on numerous occasions this season, as well as his preferred 4-2-3-1. It may be the case that injuries have forced the changes but I don't think he can be criticised this season for not changing formation. I think no matter what formation we have we still seem to play the same way with the ball continually hit out wide and we always seem to have an isolated striker on matter what the formation. Im not a huge fan of Garry F but I think he has to play a run of games to get him fit and see if he can give us some sort of impetus from the middle instead of lumping the ball wide continually. Barton got totally destroyed and gave up in the game at Fir park and must not play in the middle on wednesday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 How can anyone on this forum possibly make judgements on how committed the injured players are to get back? Sorry, but that's when the comments get ridiculous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Too rigid an approach to tactics: insisting that only one system is the way to go, even when the players best suited to it are not available. In the short term, there has been a thrawn attitude of refusing to make a sub before the game is already won and lost; over the seasons, the same attitude is shown in refusing to change the system when key positions in the former system cannot be filled. Given the size of our squad, the team is paying for that lack of flexibility now. We're still dependent on players who should by this time be thinking of hanging up their boots, but introducing younger players seems to be like drawing teeth. There seem to be a couple of points here :- 1) Too rigid formation - do you not think that the players we bring in are to suit the way we play? 2) Not playing the younger players. Apart from McCarthy, who I think is injured just now, which ones are ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaila Street Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 How can anyone on this forum possibly make judgements on how committed the injured players are to get back? Sorry, but that's when the comments get ridiculous. If only the club had some sort of paid for communication channel to keep the fans up to date with the injuries and maybe the odd 'can't wait to get back' style interview eh? Get injured at Firhill and you disappear off the face of the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Lack of competition for places ? I'd hope not lenziejag, profrssional and all that. We need to see more pride...self pride if not for the manager or club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 There seem to be a couple of points here :- 1) Too rigid formation - do you not think that the players we bring in are to suit the way we play? 2) Not playing the younger players. Apart from McCarthy, who I think is injured just now, which ones are ready? Probably our best performance of the season was up at Mcdermid Park in the Betfred Cup when we won 3 nil and Kevin Nesbitt albeit after a few dodgy performances absolutely rag dolled the St Johnstone defence which included Steven Anderson.Kevin Nesbitt deservably won the Man of the Match , Archies response was to drop him for the Celtic match and he has hardly been used since. What kind of encouragement is that for our young players ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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