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11 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

This is all a matter of Company Law. The short answer is “yes”, but if you are truly interested in the detail, then do a bit of Google research on shareholder rights under the Companies Act.

Thanks for the advice Stolenscone :)

Partick Thistle are not a public traded company are they? So the shares do not trade on the open market and there's no requirement for a annual shareholders meeting?

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54 minutes ago, AndyMac said:

Thanks for the advice Stolenscone :)

Partick Thistle are not a public traded company are they? So the shares do not trade on the open market and there's no requirement for a annual shareholders meeting?

All companies require to hold an AGM, although for small companies with only one shareholder, in practice what would be the point?

The club holds an AGM each year and people have posted their thoughts on it on this forum every year that I can remember.

Again, the rules around AGMs are a matter of Company Law. I suggest a google search, if you are interested in shareholder right. 

(As an aside, in response to an earlier comment on this thread, it’s my understanding that companies below a certain size do not require to file a full annual return - the Club is not breaching it’s filing requirements by not publishing a complete list of shareholders. But I am not an expert in company law.)

Edited by stolenscone
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Firhill Developments Ltd is the posh name for Propco, and you can see their (abbreviated) accounts at Company House if you are interested.   There is no income stated (only balance sheets and Annual Returns with shareholders) so it is hard to calculate the charge levied on PTFC with respect to the stadium.  Perhaps an accountant among you could make more sense of these accounts than I can.

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34 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Firhill Developments Ltd is the posh name for Propco, and you can see their (abbreviated) accounts at Company House if you are interested.   There is no income stated (only balance sheets and Annual Returns with shareholders) so it is hard to calculate the charge levied on PTFC with respect to the stadium.  Perhaps an accountant among you could make more sense of these accounts than I can.

Has this been running 8 years?  

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4 hours ago, AndyMac said:

That's where we differ Allyo.

I don't blame Gary Caldwell at all. I blame the people who hired him. They should have known better.

 

I know you do. I just don't understand the logic. Why is the board's incompetence unforgivable, but Gary Caldwell's incompetence forgivable?

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If you look at the shareholder details 22 people own 93% of the club. These are mainly directors, ex directors, family of ex directors etc.

Ours shareholding is fractured which is good as one person cant run it themselves but bad as too many cooks etc.

The other 7 % is owned by about 285 different people.

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17 minutes ago, allyo said:

I know you do. I just don't understand the logic. Why is the board's incompetence unforgivable, but Gary Caldwell's incompetence forgivable?

It's not that I forgive Gary Caldwell. It's because I have always thought that Gary Caldwell was a terrible appointment - Who's Next

I never expected anything from him in the first place, Gary Caldwell is the master of disaster. I am not at all surprised that we're bottom of the league. However, I truly believe that Gary is giving the job his best shot, what more can I expect or ask for? It would be wrong to blame someone, or pretend to be disappointed or let down, when I had no faith in that person to begin with.

I blame the board on these counts;

(1) They sacked our long term manager, whilst still under contract and in no real danger of relegation.

(2) They didn't bother lining up a suitable replacement before sacking our long term manager.

(3) They didn't actively seek out replacements and were more than happy to put the job out to all comers.

(4) They were delighted with the standard and number of applicants, but nevertheless, gave a 2 year contract to Gary Caldwell, whose managerial record was questionable, to say the least.

It's the same with ropey players, as long as they are tying their best it's not really their fault. If they're the best players you can get, so be it. If, on the other hand if better players were available within budget, it's then the managers/clubs fault for not getting them.

You can only give what you've got, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  So perhaps you're right Allyo, perhaps I should forgive the board also, and just accept that they're doing their rank rotten best, or condemn them and everyone else in equal measure.

Logic and Thistle, don't keep close company :)

 

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In the almost 60 yrs I have followed the Jags only 4 managers have provided success . Mcparland,Lambie, Archibald & Auld  either by winning leagues, cup or just keeping us in the top league. The common denominator is they had passion for the club . Caldwell knows nothing about the the club he is just another ex Old Firm player like Johnstone , McLeod , Whyte who had big egos but new f*** all about managing a football team. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

If you have a look at the link attached the confirmation statement shows who has shares and how many. The accounts will tell you (right at the end) shares are held by various people and no one person can exercise control.

With regard to PropCo I keep reading that the club pays between £50,000 to £100,000 per year for this and I don't know where this came from.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005417/filing-history

FT, thanks for that link. There are many pdf files there. Can you point to the one which shows all the share owners and how many they have?

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7 hours ago, Jago1953 said:

In the almost 60 yrs I have followed the Jags only 4 managers have provided success . Mcparland,Lambie, Archibald & Auld  either by winning leagues, cup or just keeping us in the top league. The common denominator is they had passion for the club . Caldwell knows nothing about the the club he is just another ex Old Firm player like Johnstone , McLeod , Whyte who had big egos but new f*** all about managing a football team. 

 

 

McParland and Archie obviously had a connection with the club through many years playing for us. What was Lambie’s and Auld’s connection before they became managers ?

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9 hours ago, AndyMac said:

You can only give what you've got, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  So perhaps you're right Allyo, perhaps I should forgive the board also, and just accept that they're doing their rank rotten best, or condemn them and everyone else in equal measure.

Logic and Thistle, don't keep close company :)

 

Thanks for the complete response, and apologise for the collective quoting AndyMac. I don't really disagree with anything you're saying, but yeah, the crux for me is that the board are probably doing their best too, it's just that they are equally hopeless.

Happy times.

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1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

McParland and Archie obviously had a connection with the club through many years playing for us. What was Lambie’s and Auld’s connection before they became managers ?

Auld's from Maryhill and, tenuously, Lambie was his assistant at Accies.

While we're on this subject, let's not forget, Lambie wasn't an overnight success either, and the passion he'd eventually develop for the club wasn't evident when he f*cked off back to Accies after a year in the job.

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10 hours ago, Jago1953 said:

In the almost 60 yrs I have followed the Jags only 4 managers have provided success . Mcparland,Lambie, Archibald & Auld  either by winning leagues, cup or just keeping us in the top league. The common denominator is they had passion for the club . Caldwell knows nothing about the the club he is just another ex Old Firm player like Johnstone , McLeod , Whyte who had big egos but new f*** all about managing a football team. 

 

 

Having followed the Jags from about 1963 myself, I wold agree - though I would probably add McCall to the list. We've had some utter sh!te as managers, and so far Caldo is down there with the worst of them.

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Lambie's success, or at least the signs of improvement, were pretty immediate the first time around, no? That's how I remember it.

I don't think anyone looks for immediate success. But DP, surely you're worried by the direction we've taken since Caldwell arrived. Enough to make you worry that it's a bad appointment. Are you not?

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7 minutes ago, allyo said:

Lambie's success, or at least the signs of improvement, were pretty immediate the first time around, no? That's how I remember it.

If we're going to compare the two then it's worth making the point that they managed in radically different eras. Lambie wasn't hamstrung by transfer windows remember. The point I was making was more in reference to John's passion for the club, though - I don't think that was an overnight development.

Re. Caldwell, of course I'm concerned by our current situation, but I'm not ready to write him off the way others clearly have. I think performances have improved, although results haven't. I think the managerial well is pretty dry at the moment. Look at Dundee, St Mirren, Morton, Dunfermline...none of their managerial moves appear to have worked out for them.

McCall seemed to be the popular choice to take over from Archibald and appears to be the fans' favourite to take the reins from Caldwell when he eventually departs Firhill, despite him having led Ayr to arguably the most embarrassing result in their history, not to mention the fact he left Thistle in disgrace.

And, despite what others are appearing to suggest, I don't think there's mass dissent in the playing ranks. I've heard second hand that a number of players think that Caldwell's an improvement on the previous manager. They're receiving clearer instruction and there's more structure to training - Saunders' goal on Saturday is evidence of this.

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14 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

If we're going to compare the two then it's worth making the point that they managed in radically different eras. Lambie wasn't hamstrung by transfer windows remember. The point I was making was more in reference to John's passion for the club, though - I don't think that was an overnight development.

Re. Caldwell, of course I'm concerned by our current situation, but I'm not ready to write him off the way others clearly have. I think performances have improved, although results haven't. I think the managerial well is pretty dry at the moment. Look at Dundee, St Mirren, Morton, Dunfermline...none of their managerial moves appear to have worked out for them.

McCall seemed to be the popular choice to take over from Archibald and appears to be the fans' favourite to take the reins from Caldwell when he eventually departs Firhill, despite him having led Ayr to arguably the most embarrassing result in their history, not to mention the fact he left Thistle in disgrace.

And, despite what others are appearing to suggest, I don't think there's mass dissent in the playing ranks. I've heard second hand that a number of players think that Caldwell's an improvement on the previous manager. They're receiving clearer instruction and there's more structure to training - Saunders' goal on Saturday is evidence of this.

Did McCall leave in disgrace? What actually happened? Anybody know?

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15 hours ago, AndyMac said:

Jordanhill Jag, do you know who the board are accountable to?

Is there a mechanism in place for the clubs shareholders to call an extraordinary meeting, to challenge or remove the officers of the board?

The Board are accountable to the shareholders - as they themselves hold next to no shares -then a simple majority at a shareholders meeting removes them 

As for the mechanism and an EGM -then this would be covered in the Companies Act and the Club Articles of Association - you would need a lawyer to give exact detials 

However - in the past if Boards have been failing -they have stepped aside for new people to take over  - former boards consisted of Directors recruited from our Fan Base -so they were closer to what the general mood was from the Fans 

Im not sure what the motivation is to be on the Board of a small Football Club if you have no real previous History with it -so its hard to predict what will happen if things dont improve 

This Saturday is the test - we will see if the much promised January signings are going to keep us up 

However my opinion is that the Fans have lost faith in where we are going in General  - if the Training Ground doesnt go ahead as promised - then people have to consider there positions - if we are not 6 points clear of the relegation zone by Easter - same applies 

Now so we are clear - Training Ground isnt that important - however it was hyped way beyond what it is  - if its then not delivered -its a measure of where we are going as a Club 

its going to be a long season 

 

 

 

 

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