Cults Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Whilst the jury is clearly out on Caldwell, as many have said, the squad really is poor and needs major surgery. I've put the players into 4 categories based on their ability theoretically to be part of a promotion winning team : 1 - at the level / would be disappointed to see them go - Bannigan, Slater, Spittal (based on improved confidence / form in last 2 games playing more centrally). Ironically all central midfielders ! 2 - should be good enough based on previous efforts, though not generally performing at present - Elliot (improved form), Doolan, Erskine 3 - Young and potentially good enough, but not proven - Penrice, McCarthy, Fitzpatrick, Sneddon (I'm not convinced that Penrice and McCarthy can get to category 1) 4 - not good enough / no skin off our noses if they go - McGinty, Keown, Storey, Storer, Scobbie, Jeffries, Bell, Gordon, plus Quitongo will go anyway The long term injured guys in O'Ware and Coulibaly should be category 1, and would clearly add something based on their track records. So in summary - not enough 1's and too many 4's, while you'd probably want just a small number of 2's and 3's in the starting 11. Tough gig for Caldwell, and, for me, comes back to keeping Archie and letting him rebuild the squad after relegation. So objective is survival this year, and rebuild over a couple of windows for promotion next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cults Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Sorry forgot about Brice and Mutumbo - category 4 obviously too !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 That's a pretty fair assessment, I reckon, though I'd put Spittal in category 2, and Slater (not sure of his age) in 3. A shake-up definitely looks like the only way out of this mire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steevo Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) Think Slater is 23/24. Played at least 3 years as a first team player in the Premiership with Killie. Think he’s been one of our better players and think he proved himself at a higher level. Edited December 18, 2018 by Steevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Not sure why Gordon is in category four. Think he might even be ahead of Coulibaly and O'Ware as the player we're missing the most. Anyway he's not ours, unlikely to be fit any time soon, so all rather academic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legs Like A Spider Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Cults Jag said: Whilst the jury is clearly out on Caldwell, as many have said, the squad really is poor and needs major surgery. I've put the players into 4 categories based on their ability theoretically to be part of a promotion winning team : 1 - at the level / would be disappointed to see them go - Bannigan, Slater, Spittal (based on improved confidence / form in last 2 games playing more centrally). Ironically all central midfielders ! 2 - should be good enough based on previous efforts, though not generally performing at present - Elliot (improved form), Doolan, Erskine 3 - Young and potentially good enough, but not proven - Penrice, McCarthy, Fitzpatrick, Sneddon (I'm not convinced that Penrice and McCarthy can get to category 1) 4 - not good enough / no skin off our noses if they go - McGinty, Keown, Storey, Storer, Scobbie, Jeffries, Bell, Gordon, plus Quitongo will go anyway The long term injured guys in O'Ware and Coulibaly should be category 1, and would clearly add something based on their track records. So in summary - not enough 1's and too many 4's, while you'd probably want just a small number of 2's and 3's in the starting 11. Tough gig for Caldwell, and, for me, comes back to keeping Archie and letting him rebuild the squad after relegation. So objective is survival this year, and rebuild over a couple of windows for promotion next year. Category3 should be category 1. They are all talented and MUST be retained. Their problem is they are young and inexperienced but being expected to carry a team of either useless or underperforming seasoned professionals. Category 1’s could be replaced. They do not offer enough in an attacking sense and Spittal can’t find his way in there on the back of just 1 or 2 decent performances in a year and a half. The Category 2’s are a total mystery. Elliot has picked up a bit from early season when he cost us goals and matches but it’s really difficult to explain the lack of performnces from the other 2 who were expected to be our main assets in a push to get back to the SPL. Agree that it would be massive if the 2 long term injuries came back and performed at their best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsman Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 got told by a certain thistle player that coulibaly is not a good player at all and a nightmare in training also keown too big for his boots attitude causing fighting within the camp the players are sold on caldwells approach apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Most of this league are category fours. We should win more games than we lose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, allyo said: Most of this league are category fours. We should win more games than we lose With a good manager we would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Most of our early season points came from moments of inspiration from Erskine, albeit a meagre return. I agree that Chris is no longer consistently producing but Caldwell rarely if ever starts him, preferring consistently dreadful footballers every week. It’s about time Caldwell realises he has an asset that, if used properly can provide some desperately needed points on the board. Any other team in our league would love to have Erskine. I agree with most of the categories but suspect Spittal will revert to his usual garbage. For me, he’s moved from 4 to 2 and hope he continues improving but he has a lot of making up to do. Elliott and Penrice have also been improving and with continued consistency should move into category 1. Looking at those in category 4 shows the massive job Caldwell has. There are 11 players in that category ie 11 duds. 11 useless players on our books. He didnt sign any of these. So he deserves at least 1 window. I’m unconvinced by Caldwell’s tactics and team selections, especially as he apparently said he rates Storey. Has he actually evaluated his contributions? But we gave Caldwell a contract and we should see it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muirparkman Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Auld Jag said: With a good manager we would. With a Goodwin, we could win, more than we lose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, muirparkman said: With a Goodwin, we could win, more than we lose.. Ran out of likes/laughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muirparkman Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: Ran out of likes/laughs. We sure need some cheering up these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, muirparkman said: We sure need some cheering up these days. These bad times will make the good times (when they come ) even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 59 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said: Most of our early season points came from moments of inspiration from Erskine, albeit a meagre return. I agree that Chris is no longer consistently producing but Caldwell rarely if ever starts him, preferring consistently dreadful footballers every week. It’s about time Caldwell realises he has an asset that, if used properly can provide some desperately needed points on the board. Any other team in our league would love to have Erskine. I agree with most of the categories but suspect Spittal will revert to his usual garbage. For me, he’s moved from 4 to 2 and hope he continues improving but he has a lot of making up to do. Elliott and Penrice have also been improving and with continued consistency should move into category 1. Looking at those in category 4 shows the massive job Caldwell has. There are 11 players in that category ie 11 duds. 11 useless players on our books. He didnt sign any of these. So he deserves at least 1 window. I’m unconvinced by Caldwell’s tactics and team selections, especially as he apparently said he rates Storey. Has he actually evaluated his contributions? But we gave Caldwell a contract and we should see it out. So we gave Caldwell a contact for 2 years , a guy who has limited knowledge of being a manager in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, had no experience of building a team with limited resources , so why on earth would they not have a put a probationary clause in it if it wasn’t working out similar to Kenny Miller at Livingston. If we get relegated the financial implications are horrendous, going from a turnover of £4.5 million to a quarter of that within 2 years .If we’re still in the same position in the next 3 weeks it’s time for him to go , my clubs exsistence is far more important than Gary Caldwell. His remit was promotion, once that’s gone he’s failed in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: So we gave Caldwell a contact for 2 years , a guy who has limited knowledge of being a manager in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, had no experience of building a team with limited resources , so why on earth would they not have a put a probationary clause in it if it wasn’t working out similar to Kenny Miller at Livingston. If we get relegated the financial implications are horrendous, going from a turnover of £4.5 million to a quarter of that within 2 years .If we’re still in the same position in the next 3 weeks it’s time for him to go , my clubs exsistence is far more important than Gary Caldwell. His remit was promotion, once that’s gone he’s failed in my opinion. Spot on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Any player assessment around Firhill way must be provided in Powerpoint format to be in any way persuasive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said: Any player assessment around Firhill way must be provided in Powerpoint format to be in any way persuasive. The assessment must be down in excel linked into the PowerPoint presentation so it can be updated quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: The assessment must be down in excel linked into the PowerPoint presentation so it can be updated quickly Received this Xmas message from Gary C today https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkMMQdTUUAAg5m3.jpg:large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mull Jag Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 My own take is as following GK Bell- not impressed keep as back up Lennox- not enough time to assess Sneddon- keep and play Defenders Oware- injured McGinty- is ok but if can get better get rid Keown - as above Penrice- keep Eliott- never a full back but keep and push up the park Scobbie- loan up would I extend depends on whats out there Jeffries- not seen enough of him Midfielders Bannigan- keep Slater- keep Spittal- keep is done a disservice by some of our supporters Erskine- keep as back up or if he can finish a game McCarthy- keep but needs to be fit Gordon- injured but looked decent Wilson- will he make it but needs games to see if he can NTAMBWE- get rid Forwards Doolan- keep but needs help Storey- there is something there but is it a footballer? Storer- loose cannon get rid Mbtumbo - get rid cant stick to a formation Fitzpatrick- keep Quintongo- should be punted Coulibaly - injured but keep 25 players in our 1st team squad that should be capable of getting us to at least the play offs in my opinion. He needs to add a RB , at least on CB , a forward preferably a one that can score and hold the ball up . But we really need a midfielder that can run forward with the ball and create space for the forwards , wide players . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Steve Clarke remotivated an existing Killie squad without a drastic clear out. It can be done with the right manager. I’d be less harsh with the clear out; Quitongo, Storey, Storer, Mtumbo can go. Some of the rest could be useful from-the-bench players. Bearing in mind Banzo may well be off anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Livingston like Killie are another example of the right manager, a lot of people (inc myself) thought they would be cannon fodder in SPL especially after losing their manager, however despite only minor tweaks to their squad they have been a breath of fresh air with a very impressive home record to boot. My take on current squad is get rid of Bell, Keown, Mcginty, Ntambwe,Storey.Storer,Scobbie and Quintogo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That 1 jags fan Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, sandy said: Steve Clarke remotivated an existing Killie squad without a drastic clear out. It can be done with the right manager. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, sandy said: Steve Clarke remotivated an existing Killie squad without a drastic clear out. It can be done with the right manager. I’d be less harsh with the clear out; Quitongo, Storey, Storer, Mtumbo can go. Some of the rest could be useful from-the-bench players. Bearing in mind Banzo may well be off anyway. To be fair sandy they clearly had better players than us to get better out of - Boyd, Jordan jones, kiltie, brophy etc etc Edited December 19, 2018 by Third Lanark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 9:45 AM, Cults Jag said: Whilst the jury is clearly out on Caldwell, as many have said, the squad really is poor and needs major surgery. I've put the players into 4 categories based on their ability theoretically to be part of a promotion winning team : 1 - at the level / would be disappointed to see them go - Bannigan, Slater, Spittal (based on improved confidence / form in last 2 games playing more centrally). Ironically all central midfielders ! 2 - should be good enough based on previous efforts, though not generally performing at present - Elliot (improved form), Doolan, Erskine 3 - Young and potentially good enough, but not proven - Penrice, McCarthy, Fitzpatrick, Sneddon (I'm not convinced that Penrice and McCarthy can get to category 1) 4 - not good enough / no skin off our noses if they go - McGinty, Keown, Storey, Storer, Scobbie, Jeffries, Bell, Gordon, plus Quitongo will go anyway The long term injured guys in O'Ware and Coulibaly should be category 1, and would clearly add something based on their track records. So in summary - not enough 1's and too many 4's, while you'd probably want just a small number of 2's and 3's in the starting 11. Tough gig for Caldwell, and, for me, comes back to keeping Archie and letting him rebuild the squad after relegation. So objective is survival this year, and rebuild over a couple of windows for promotion next year. I'd have McGinty in Category 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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