eljaggo Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Posting the Trust's constitution on here would be a big help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 6:58 PM, KemoAvdiu said: It’s good to get this information as it’s something that I wasn’t aware of (maybe a reflection on me not noticing rather than anything else!). From your responses I’m presuming you’re one of the trustees. If so, thanks for putting yourself forward and apologies if any of the posts on here seem critical towards yourself and your fellow trustees. That’s certainly not what any of my posts have intended. While you’re here, could you let us know the explanation from the club as to why the Trust doesn’t have a place on the club board? From my perspective it would be hugely beneficial for the club board, not to mention for the credibility and empowerment of the Trust. Has this issue been raised with the club at all and what was the response? In regards to a fans seat on the board, this has to be the ultimate goal & it would make sense for this to come from the PTFC Trust in some way over time. It is great to see posts about the Trust on here & fans taking an interest in how it is run, how it could be improved & what should be its goals over x period of time. I can only encourage those that have posted and those that have read posts here to engage further with the Trust through Facebook/Twitter (@ptfctrust) or by emailing [email protected] & I would say most importantly by attending the open meetings held quarterly which will be advertised via website/social media/matchday programme. It is the supporters that need to drive the agenda, I really believe this is the best opportunity the supporters have had in a long time to engage with the Club through the vehicle afforded to us by the generosity of the Weirs. 5 hours ago, Norgethistle said: And for fans (Older generation) who don’t use social media do you have a webpage, or page on the Clubs website ? Yes: https://ptfc.co.uk/club/football-trust/ https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/ptfc-trust/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, 1 John Lambie said: In regards to a fans seat on the board, this has to be the ultimate goal & it would make sense for this to come from the PTFC Trust in some way over time. It is great to see posts about the Trust on here & fans taking an interest in how it is run, how it could be improved & what should be its goals over x period of time. I can only encourage those that have posted and those that have read posts here to engage further with the Trust through Facebook/Twitter (@ptfctrust) or by emailing [email protected] & I would say most importantly by attending the open meetings held quarterly which will be advertised via website/social media/matchday programme. It is the supporters that need to drive the agenda, I really believe this is the best opportunity the supporters have had in a long time to engage with the Club through the vehicle afforded to us by the generosity of the Weirs. Really appreciate the reply. In terms of a fans’ seat and voice on the board, has that been discussed with the club? If the Trust is already the major shareholder I’d argue it makes sense for it to be an immediate aim, rather than a long term one, particularly at a time when a lot of fans have concerns about the direction of the club. Edited January 7, 2019 by KemoAvdiu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, KemoAvdiu said: Really appreciate the reply. In terms of a fans’ seat and voice on the board, has that been discussed with the club? If the Trust is already the major shareholder I’d argue it makes sense for it to be an immediate aim, rather than a long term one, particularly at a time when a lot of fans have concerns about the direction of the club. Not just major shareholder. Largest shareholder and when combined with the other jags trust, in excess of 25% of the shares. Edited January 7, 2019 by jaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, 1 John Lambie said: In regards to a fans seat on the board, this has to be the ultimate goal & it would make sense for this to come from the PTFC Trust in some way over time. It is great to see posts about the Trust on here & fans taking an interest in how it is run, how it could be improved & what should be its goals over x period of time. I can only encourage those that have posted and those that have read posts here to engage further with the Trust through Facebook/Twitter (@ptfctrust) or by emailing [email protected] & I would say most importantly by attending the open meetings held quarterly which will be advertised via website/social media/matchday programme. It is the supporters that need to drive the agenda, I really believe this is the best opportunity the supporters have had in a long time to engage with the Club through the vehicle afforded to us by the generosity of the Weirs. Yes: https://ptfc.co.uk/club/football-trust/ https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/ptfc-trust/ If its a Fans Trust why are there three Club Officials as Trustees and how many of the current Trustees are appointees of the Board ? Also who wrote the Constitution and when was it voted for by those who can Vote on the Trust ? Is it affiliated to Supporters Direct For it to have credibility it has to be independent from the Club and have open & free elections for all Trustees ? Edited January 8, 2019 by Jordanhill Jag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 I have just emailed the Trust to ask for a copy of its constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 The Supporters Trustees of the PTFC Trust will have a pop up stall in the concourse of the Jackie Husband Stand tomorrow from 2pm. This will be repeated in the John Lambie Stand/Aitken Suite over the upcoming weeks. Please pop by before the game! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 1/11/2019 at 9:00 PM, 1 John Lambie said: The Supporters Trustees of the PTFC Trust will have a pop up stall in the concourse of the Jackie Husband Stand tomorrow from 2pm. This will be repeated in the John Lambie Stand/Aitken Suite over the upcoming weeks. Please pop by before the game! Would it be possible to answer my question from earlier in the thread? Appreciate there’s a stall but not everybody can make it there pre match and good to have these questions answered publicly I think. Edited January 12, 2019 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, KemoAvdiu said: Would it be possible to answer my question from earlier in the thread? Appreciate there’s a stall but not everybody can make it there pre match and good to have these questions answered publicly I think. The topic of a supporters rep has been mentioned previously & is one that will be raised again in the very near future, the results of these conversations will of course be fed back to supporters. In my opinion, the Trust needs to build credibility with supporters before this will happen & this is something the Trustees are trying to do but this does require feedback & buy-in from the wider fanbase. As I said previously, it has to be the ultimate goal of the Trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 I had a discussion with three of the Supporters Trustees at yesterday's game, Pauline Graham, Andrew Byron and Gordon Shaw. They were fairly open about what was happening between the Trust and the Board, and said that they were in talks with the Board about a directorship for a supporter sponsored Trustee. They implied that this might be contingent upon the Trust having better support from the fans - presumably to give the Board confidence that fans' views are accurately represented by the Trust. I asked about collaboration with the Fans Trust, and was told that despite overtures from the Supporters Trust, there had been no response from the Fans Trust. They also said that the Board had a similar experience, with only one meeting between the Fans Trust and the Board since it was set up. While they were reasonably candid in their answers, I got the impression that there may be other issues that may be hampering the Trust getting a seat on the Board. At any rate, with 19% of the shares, they are in a position to demand a seat, irrespective of any resistance. That is a particularly valid assertion given that from the latest data (albeit 3 years old) only one director holds a tiny shareholding and the other 4 hold no shares whatsoever in the Club. Perhaps the constitution of the Supporters Trust would tell us who the shareholding of the Trust is vested in. If the Trust can wield its shares through majority voting on the Trust, then a seat on the Board is undeniable on any rational grounds. I emailed the Trust last week for a copy of its constitution. So far there has been no response. Caldwell is only a symptom of the problems at the Club, and looking at the current Board compared to the one which did a sterling job in saving the Club 19 years ago, I have serious concerns about what would happen if we are relegated. We fans need to take a much closer interest in the Supporters Trust and begin to assert ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 That’s interesting eljaggo. My understanding (and i could be wrong) was that the members of the supporters trust weee season ticket holders. In which case, surely a member can get a copy of the constitution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Trustees, and therefore fans seeking election to the Trust, must have been a season ticket holder for the past three seasons. The link to the Trust's page by 1Jlambie above states that but also mentions a constitution, which they seem a bit coy about publishing. They don't seem to be a registered charity according the Scottish Charities listings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, 1 John Lambie said: The topic of a supporters rep has been mentioned previously & is one that will be raised again in the very near future, the results of these conversations will of course be fed back to supporters. In my opinion, the Trust needs to build credibility with supporters before this will happen & this is something the Trustees are trying to do but this does require feedback & buy-in from the wider fanbase. As I said previously, it has to be the ultimate goal of the Trust. Appreciate the response. My view would be that, given the trust holds such a substantial shareholding, the place on the board should come first in order to gain credibility with fans. The fans shouldn’t have to prove themselves to the board, and the trust shouldn’t have to prove itself to the board to get that voice at the table - the shareholding alone should necessitate it. If individuals with no shares in the club - and to be totally frank with fairly flimsy credentials - can be invited on to the board then there’s absolutely no reasons why a fans trust with one-fifth of all shares shouldn’t be a powerful player on there now, rather than further down the line. Edited January 13, 2019 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Completely agree KemoAvdiu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, eljaggo said: Trustees, and therefore fans seeking election to the Trust, must have been a season ticket holder for the past three seasons. The link to the Trust's page by 1Jlambie above states that but also mentions a constitution, which they seem a bit coy about publishing. They don't seem to be a registered charity according the Scottish Charities listings. May have been lost during the conversation but posting the Trust Deed on the website has been raised to the Club & should be visible in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Appreciate the response. My view would be that, given the trust holds such a substantial shareholding, the place on the board should come first in order to gain credibility with fans. The fans shouldn’t have to prove themselves to the board, and the trust shouldn’t have to prove itself to the board to get that voice at the table - the shareholding alone should necessitate it. If individuals with no shares in the club - and to be totally frank with fairly flimsy credentials - can be invited on to the board then there’s absolutely no reasons why a fans trust with one-fifth of all shares shouldn’t be a powerful player on there now, rather than further down the line. Nailed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 55 minutes ago, 1 John Lambie said: May have been lost during the conversation but posting the Trust Deed on the website has been raised to the Club & should be visible in the coming weeks. Coming Weeks ? It takes 5 minutes - why weeks ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Coming Weeks ? It takes 5 minutes - why weeks ? I don’t think that tone is necessarily needed when speaking to fellow fans who are giving up their spare time and putting themselves forward for things like this, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) On 1/8/2019 at 8:28 AM, eljaggo said: I have just emailed the Trust to ask for a copy of its constitution. Pauline Graham of the Trust has emailed me to confirm that she will be sending me a copy of the Trust deed (I assume that is the constitution) this week. I will post the document when it arrives. She also said that the Trust are meeting the Board on Wednesday and would welcome any questions that fans have that the Trust could put to the Board. I suggested that the Trust starts a thread on this forum asking for these questions, as part of a new, renewed effort to engage with fans. I have asked the Trust what is preventing the Trust having its own seat on the Board. I will also be asking for the record how many PTFC shares each of the Board own. Edited January 14, 2019 by eljaggo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 53 minutes ago, eljaggo said: Pauline Graham of the Trust has emailed me to confirm that she will be sending me a copy of the Trust deed (I assume that is the constitution) this week. I will post the document when it arrives. She also said that the Trust are meeting the Board on Wednesday and would welcome any questions that fans have that the Trust could put to the Board. I suggested that the Trust starts a thread on this forum asking for these questions, as part of a new, renewed effort to engage with fans. I have asked the Trust what is preventing the the Trust having its own seat on the Board. I will also be asking for the record how many PTFC shares each of the Board own. My main question is why is the way we play not changed in the slightest, especially as our style of play has failed miserably the entire season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 On 1/13/2019 at 2:46 PM, KemoAvdiu said: I don’t think that tone is necessarily needed when speaking to fellow fans who are giving up their spare time and putting themselves forward for things like this, to be honest. Ok - fair point - my apologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 6 hours ago, dl1971 said: My main question is why is the way we play not changed in the slightest, especially as our style of play has failed miserably the entire season. Trust have no say on Football matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Trust have no say on Football matters Can the Trust ask if the board are aware of the fans displeasure at Caldwell's appointment? Can they ask what references were taken up prior to appointment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 39 minutes ago, laukat said: Can the Trust ask if the board are aware of the fans displeasure at Caldwell's appointment? Can they ask what references were taken up prior to appointment? Yes - but the Board wont discuss Football Tactics etc as suggested I would also look for them to quash the rumour reference the number of candidates who were formally interviewed- face to face the same as Caldwell And confirm the Training Ground is proceeding as per programme & scale they announced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 In the absence of a new thread from the Trust asking for questions, you might be better to email your questions to the Trust, rather than assume that they will scour this site for fans' questions Their email is [email protected] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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