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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, partickthedog said:

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

 

Looks like William Shakespeare read this thread over 400 years ago. I wonder who was the poor player he was referring to?

I feel as if I’ve been reading it for 400 years

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15 minutes ago, alexander livingstone said:

Where was the £350,000 the old board promised would be available in January going to come from.

I have No Idea - but its a big Wad of Cash and assuming that Caldwell was getting the Transfer Money under the previous regime as suggested - to then state he would get another £350K - so for the Record as his budget this Year was the same as last Year - that would be a total increase of £550K of additional Funding 

To put it in scale - we were promoted  with a Budget of circa £850K under Archie   

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Agreed - but it was "more" funds people keep accusing the current Board of telling lies in there rebuttal to the Newspaper article - which they didnt -put simply it would be madness not to balance the Club Budget  

To be fair though David kelly confuses things further yesterday when he admitted he had to make alterations to budgets 

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33 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I have No Idea - but its a big Wad of Cash and assuming that Caldwell was getting the Transfer Money under the previous regime as suggested - to then state he would get another £350K - so for the Record as his budget this Year was the same as last Year - that would be a total increase of £550K of additional Funding 

To put it in scale - we were promoted  with a Budget of circa £850K under Archie   

That was spent under McNamara? When Archie became manager it was after the January window had closed therefore he had little to do with signing and identifying players other when Dunfermline went into admin and he picked up a couple of decent players from then 

Furthermore that was what 7 years ago, I’m pretty sure players wages have went up since then

Edited by Third Lanark
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4 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

To be fair though David kelly confuses things further yesterday when he admitted he had to make alterations to budgets 

Not that confusing. He had trimmed some operational costs to get back to breakeven budget. (After the transfer monies had reduced the significant deficit considerably). 

Edited by jaf
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17 minutes ago, jaf said:

Not that confusing. He had trimmed some operational costs to get back to breakeven budget. (After the transfer monies had reduced the significant deficit considerably). 

You don’t know that, you’re simply interpreting what was said to suit your preferred stance.

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This is all smoke and mirrors. A budget is set in relation to forecast of income. It’s very easy for two very different budgets both to be projected to be balanced at the year end so the suggestion by the new board that the old board were playing fast and loose with the money is spurious. 

What we have now is a conservative board that won’t spend any cash not guaranteed to come into the club. That could mean forecasting for first round cup exits, low crowds, minimal hospitality and sponsor income etc. Restricting player purchases will likely lead to a poorer season so their self fulfilling prophecy will probably come true.

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2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

McNamaras promotion season did not have the shambles and uncertainties going on in the background as we have now, nor did he have to deal with 2 boards, with one telling him he had more money to make signings.  And lets not forget his full season the year before when we finished 6th, which while okay was not really a roaring success.  I think Caldwell and the players can be cut some slack due to all the carry on that is happening and still appears to be some distance from being resolved.

 

Agree with you regarding Gannon being a good communicator, probably had quite a lot of experience from his cricketing duties

Thoroughly agree, anything I've said recently is in the context of that uncertainty. Thus, I was expecting Friday to be a cricket score; the fact that it wasn't, and that we played so well in the first half, is a credit to Caldwell and the squad.

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5 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Regardless of who is charge I would always expect them to be operating on a break even budget. You only expect the 2 home games you get in the League Cup group games and 1 game in the Scottish Cup - anything above that is a bonus which you can then decide to spend or build up the reserves.

Projected crowds and associated matchday income makes up the biggest part of the budget so even if both project early cup exits their budgets could be very different.

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Well if it matters why are you going on about the not signing of four additional Players - they were never in the Budget that Caldwell agreed in May - he may have been advised that he could get the Transfer Money as additional funding  previously  - but the Financial reality is that Money is required to balance the Books - the Statement stated the Truth - there had been No cuts to the agreed Player Budget agreed in May - which GC was happy with at the time - the Player Budget is the same as last Year - despite a significant drop in income ref Parachute and EUFA Money - not sure what part of that is confusing tbh       

Ok where did I say I was going on about four players ? I went on about the boards obfuscation on that front 

how do you know what Caldwell agreed in May ?

How do you know what the budgets are ?

are you David beatties love child ?

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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Agreed - but it was "more" funds people keep accusing the current Board of telling lies in there rebuttal to the Newspaper article - which they didnt -put simply it would be madness not to balance the Club Budget  

The majority of the budget was spend on Tuesday it was all gone on Saturday .... the old board mismanaged the club say new board oh no they didn’t say some new board directors .... the player budget was cut says the ceo but we had to balance the books says the cfo but I need new players says the manager ..... clear as mud 

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59 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I have No Idea - but its a big Wad of Cash and assuming that Caldwell was getting the Transfer Money under the previous regime as suggested - to then state he would get another £350K - so for the Record as his budget this Year was the same as last Year - that would be a total increase of £550K of additional Funding 

To put it in scale - we were promoted  with a Budget of circa £850K under Archie   

We are not spending much more than now are we ?

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15 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said:

This is all smoke and mirrors. A budget is set in relation to forecast of income. It’s very easy for two very different budgets both to be projected to be balanced at the year end so the suggestion by the new board that the old board were playing fast and loose with the money is spurious. 

What we have now is a conservative board that won’t spend any cash not guaranteed to come into the club. That could mean forecasting for first round cup exits, low crowds, minimal hospitality and sponsor income etc. Restricting player purchases will likely lead to a poorer season so their self fulfilling prophecy will probably come true.

Sorry, but that is crazy talk.

Budget A - live within means projecting a break-even position at year end.

Budget B - splash the cash on additional/higher quality players hoping to get promotion. How do you balance this at year end - only by a big influx of cash.

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9 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said:

Projected crowds and associated matchday income makes up the biggest part of the budget so even if both project early cup exits their budgets could be very different.

Point taken but I would prefer they err on the side of caution. If we do progress in the cups it should be easier to adjust the budget upwards than the reverse. It is a lot easier for someone like me as an individual to budget as my income is fixed and so are the majority of my outgoings but football clubs have lots of variables.

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok where did I say I was going on about four players ? I went on about the boards obfuscation on that front 

how do you know what Caldwell agreed in May ?

How do you know what the budgets are ?

are you David beatties love child ?

Well the didnt obfuscate - they replied  to an unsubstantiated Press Report from a Firhill Insider - the statement was reconfirmed yesterday by the Club CEO as being correct 

We know because it was stated by the Club Chair at the End of Last Season that his budget had been agreed - this was confirmed  by the Club CEO that it was the same as last Season and had not been cut 

As for your last wee Childish remark - Grow Up 

It was stated we had to use the Transfer Money to balance the budget - thats a big statement - care to comment ?   

 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

We are not spending much more than now are we ?

Gerry stated last Season it was circa £1MN so your are correct - however David Kelly stated at the AGM that it we had a £2.5 MN  Club Budget for last Season 

And we seem to have a Budget thats difficult to balance this Season - so No idea whats going on but thats if we only spent £1MN on the Squad - what was the other £1.5MN for ?   

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22 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said:

This is all smoke and mirrors. A budget is set in relation to forecast of income. It’s very easy for two very different budgets both to be projected to be balanced at the year end so the suggestion by the new board that the old board were playing fast and loose with the money is spurious. 

What we have now is a conservative board that won’t spend any cash not guaranteed to come into the club. That could mean forecasting for first round cup exits, low crowds, minimal hospitality and sponsor income etc. Restricting player purchases will likely lead to a poorer season so their self fulfilling prophecy will probably come true.

What makes you state they are conservative they have managed the Club Finances well over the last number of Years and have lots of experience - maybe they are just realistic?  

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5 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Agree about debt.

Youth system funding was put in for period of years.  For me a club of our size can't sustain a youth system hoping for a gem.  The odds are so low.  Have community and youth football to help society and foster support but concentrate on picking up released players age 18, 19 from bigger clubs.

I guess it depends on what you mean by sustain ? It took a few years , but in the last 3 years or so we have had Lindsay and Fitzpatrick who have generated around £1M. We also had Nisbet, who appears to be developing into a decent player. We maybe let him leave too soon - speculation, I know.

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S'funny how many fans on here are saying they are content to have a budget set to suit our guaranteed income and to stick with it. Very admirable and Iook forward to the same restraint when it comes to demanding that the team on the park fits those same ambitions.

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4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Gerry stated last Season it was circa £1MN so your are correct - however David Kelly stated at the AGM that it we had a £2.5 MN  Club Budget for last Season 

And we seem to have a Budget thats difficult to balance this Season - so No idea whats going on but thats if we only spent £1MN on the Squad - what was the other £1.5MN for ?   

Good question.....so ask your mate Beattie ?

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Just now, scotty said:

S'funny how many fans on here are saying they are content to have a budget set to suit our guaranteed income and to stick with it. Very admirable and Iook forward to the same restraint when it comes to demanding that the team on the park fits those same ambitions.

The budget is higher than we had last time we were promoted 

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8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Well the didnt obfuscate - they replied  to an unsubstantiated Press Report from a Firhill Insider - the statement was reconfirmed yesterday by the Club CEO as being correct 

We know because it was stated by the Club Chair at the End of Last Season that his budget had been agreed - this was confirmed  by the Club CEO that it was the same as last Season and had not been cut 

As for your last wee Childish remark - Grow Up 

It was stated we had to use the Transfer Money to balance the budget - thats a big statement - care to comment ?   

 

They did .....most people here totally confused after the statements yesterday and the club ceo said yesterday the managers budget has nit been cut which means to go along with your point the player budget was £1m out if a revenue line above £2m 

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Good question.....so ask your mate Beattie ?

He left around the August ? 

And why are you stating David Beattie and I are mates -why is this about David Beattie ? its about what the future is going to look like - I support change - David Beattie if it happens wont be part of that future ?  

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