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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, allyo said:

Okay genuine question, and I don't mean this in a confrontational way at all.

As I've said, I'm cautiously in favour of this type of model but I'm very glad that people like yourself are able to challenge it. I'm not a business person by any means.

If someone did want to start a fan ownership system, obviously they'd have to assess the level of interest and seek support. An Internet appeal seems to me like the most obvious and far reaching way of doing this.

If you were organising this properly, how would you go about it and what would be the initial steps to take?

Firstly I’d work out what was the objective, say 10% of shares per year for 5 years till the level of control could be gained.

Id work out how many people would be required at what “ normal” funding to do that.

Id state from the start exactly who was involved and what their role and background was, and have all these people registered as directors on the set up company with equal power, if more were added power would be diluted so again all were equal.

Id ensure my website complied with EU data protection laws prior to set up

Id ensure that the voting rights and % was established at outset

Id ensure that terms for board members were clear from outset, along with wages etc

Id ensure it was costed so that an excess was available to start adding to club cash after takeover 

I would be fully transparent from the start

Id have a mechanism in place to state who would be in charge at day one prior to elections

 

This is just a quick think from me but I’d have spent weeks making it bullet proof and ensuring every shred of info was there to avoid all the questions and suspicious 

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57 minutes ago, Big Col said:

No need to worry, my friends. Once I win the Euromillions tonight, I shall be making an offer (not a proposal) to buy the club. And the squabbling over takeovers can cease and we can get back to squabbling over footballing matters.

No way ! Your proposal as offered is not acceptable !

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36 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Details need to be worked out?

 

5 weeks after launching this, the details haven’t been worked out, they should have been completed prior to going public and (illegally) having people pledge on their website with their personal details, the amateurish nature of this (from a guy who states “ specializes in fan ownership”) is astounding.

Give us your money, we don’t know how much we need, we’ve put an offer in or is it a proposal, we’ll work out how boards are voted and selected after we have it, we can’t tell you how many have pledged, Weirs not involved, Weir is involved by the way it’s all registered in my name!! 

Total tinpot set up

Negatory pigpen 

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9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Firstly I’d work out what was the objective, say 10% of shares per year for 5 years till the level of control could be gained.

Id work out how many people would be required at what “ normal” funding to do that.

Id state from the start exactly who was involved and what their role and background was, and have all these people registered as directors on the set up company with equal power, if more were added power would be diluted so again all were equal.

Id ensure my website complied with EU data protection laws prior to set up

Id ensure that the voting rights and % was established at outset

Id ensure that terms for board members were clear from outset, along with wages etc

Id ensure it was costed so that an excess was available to start adding to club cash after takeover 

I would be fully transparent from the start

Id have a mechanism in place to state who would be in charge at day one prior to elections

 

This is just a quick think from me but I’d have spent weeks making it bullet proof and ensuring every shred of info was there to avoid all the questions and suspicious 

My genuine suggestion is that you actually get involved with tfe and help  work all this stuff out 

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Cheers Norge.

What I take from your response (and apologies if I'm oversimplifying) is that you'd have more details in place before going public, and you'd (obviously) keep it all legal in terms of data protection.

Personally, and maybe I'm being naive, I think id be tempted to support the proposal on the basis that in principle I'm in favour of fan ownership, and I'm not making any commitment at the stage so the details could be established later. I can understand your point that more detail is required, but on the other hand I can understand the wish to get the question out there early, as the whole thing is pointless if there isn't enough support out there.

The data protection thing does worry me though, and is probably the main thing stopping me from signing up at this stage.

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17 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

My genuine response is it’s been set up badly, communicated poorly and as transparent as mud and in my opinion is now toxic

Maybe Tfe only had limited time to do something, so perhaps that has led so something less than ideal. Surely it's better to at least have options, rather than allow the consortium a clear run? If the Tfe bid is toxic what is the consortium proposal? Toxic also? If both options are toxic what next?

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16 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Maybe Tfe only had limited time to do something, so perhaps that has led so something less than ideal. Surely it's better to at least have options, rather than allow the consortium a clear run? If the Tfe bid is toxic what is the consortium proposal? Toxic also? If both options are toxic what next?

The consortium (as yet) hasn’t given any contradicting information or given any vague answers. Due to its nature it’s business (as with any normal share purchase deal, takeover) behind closed doors, so as yet we can’t judge if it’s toxic or not

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

The consortium (as yet) hasn’t given any contradicting information or given any vague answers. Due to its nature it’s business (as with any normal share purchase deal, takeover) behind closed doors, so as yet we can’t judge if it’s toxic or not

I think it's fair to say that they have given no information whatsoever. So being less transparent is somehow better. Not in my book. 

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5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

The consortium (as yet) hasn’t given any contradicting information or given any vague answers. Due to its nature it’s business (as with any normal share purchase deal, takeover) behind closed doors, so as yet we can’t judge if it’s toxic or not

Is there anything legally which would prevent them from giving an overview or what the late President Bush called "the vision thing"?

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

Depends on the contract between the seller and buyer

Thanks. It just seems strange to me that a group who have no previous connection to the club have not tried to get the fans onside before they take over. I know they only need to convince the guys who hold 55% of the shares but if it was me I would like to be coming in with some goodwill behind me instead of suspicion.

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5 minutes ago, Hopeless Unbeliever said:

Genuine question as I must have missed it - what was/is the GDPR issue? 

The website is not GDPR compliant, I have highlighted it on Thursday, Paul didn’t believe he needed it till they were a legal entity (1 week ago), which is incorrect, he has stated details are not held on his server but a third party secured server at a company that is GDPR compliant (by transferring the data to a 3rd party without prior consent he’s already breached it) and would look to sort it soon. 

This is basics in this day and age especially from someone who’s been involved in this before, but going with comments on P&B data protection was ignored at the Stirling set up

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1 minute ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Thanks. It just seems strange to me that a group who have no previous connection to the club have not tried to get the fans onside before they take over. I know they only need to convince the guys who hold 55% of the shares but if it was me I would like to be coming in with some goodwill behind me instead of suspicion.

They could then be construed as performing a hostile takeover by getting the fans onboard putting pressure on it to go through prior to those with shares are willing to sell. Exactly what TFE are doing.

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1 minute ago, Big Col said:

there’s no privacy statement or terms of use statement on the website so you don’t know what they’re doing with the data they collect.

Exactly and as per the new law, the website is illegal and the director of the company owning or operating the site is breaking the law.

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2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

They could then be construed as performing a hostile takeover by getting the fans onboard putting pressure on it to go through prior to those with shares are willing to sell. Exactly what TFE are doing.

Thank goodness I am just a mere civil servant and don't need to worry about the grubby world of business!

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7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Depends on the contract between the seller and buyer

What possible reason, commercial or otherwise, could explain why a group which wants to buy a football club would provide no information whatsoever about their plans?

'Hostile takeover' doesn't begin to explain anything.

Clearly, they don't give a toss about the fans and why should they? They have no interest in Thistle other than to make money.

But let's have a go at actual Thistle fans who have jumped in before this group have taken over the club.

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