Norgethistle Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 This is why we need to take back control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: This is why we need to take back control Indeed. She is an absolute cretin. An utter embarrassment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 7/30/2020 at 10:23 PM, javeajag said: Mike Ashley ? Billy Allan ? Lord Kelvin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 9:15 AM, Lambies Lost Doo said: Successful if you stop at 2007. Next stage not so good. Eh No - 2007 was when it fell apart - it didnt happen overnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 9:30 AM, javeajag said: Business people are not the automatic answer they are like everything else .....some good some bad .....and football is littered with business people who have ruined clubs Show me an instance where a Club is successful without them at the helm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 9 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Show me an instance where a Club is successful without them at the helm ? SD Eibar .....fan owned finished 14th in la Liga with an average attendance of 4500 amazing they have stayed in la Liga for 5 years ...........we could compare them with say with Espanyol owned by a Chinese businessman who have been relegated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Show me an instance where a Club is successful without them at the helm ? You could argue Motherwell are doing fine as a fans based club just now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Show me an instance where a Club is successful without them at the helm ? Show us a club that's gone into administration which hasn't had businessmen at the helm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 I always get confused with these discussions. Do we not have fans who are also business people? If they say they support fan ownership have they stopped running their business? Also, as someone who is absolutely not a businessman I do feel a little slighted by the logical extension of the argument which basically says I have nothing to offer. We need to have a range of different backgrounds and experience in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 And of course Real Madrid and Barcelona are owned by their members c100k and c180k respectively......but they would do better being owned by some business people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Eh No - 2007 was when it fell apart - it didnt happen overnight I appreciate I over simplified it. Fascinated by the whole RBS episode and how it almost brought financial armagedon to UK and world economies. So many more people at fault and not just Fred. Some great books on it. Iain Martin particularly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: I always get confused with these discussions. Do we not have fans who are also business people? If they say they support fan ownership have they stopped running their business? Also, as someone who is absolutely not a businessman I do feel a little slighted by the logical extension of the argument which basically says I have nothing to offer. We need to have a range of different backgrounds and experience in my opinion. Yeah I agree with a lot of that. For me the past boards had some smart people with tangible success in running organisations like McGhees, Hunter Wellies, Apex Hotels and they had "skin in the game" in both private enterprise and the club. Nothing makes you concentrate than your own £ being at risk. They also ran the club very well and managed to achieve success on the pitch. Currently there is over promise and under delivery and especially now. Silence. Plus for me Jaqui Low seems like a chancer. "PR Superstar" but makes plenty of PR mistakes. Is where she is due to being involved with a lottery millionaire and in with the right people. Not created anything of such. Caldwell, Doolan, even getting "close personal friend" Hardeep Singh Koli to host a Ladies Day 2 seasons who has been hit with scores of accusations by women recently (and quite a few before) is a great example. Car crash stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, javeajag said: And of course Real Madrid and Barcelona are owned by their members c100k and c180k respectively......but they would do better being owned by some business people And run by very Wealthy Individuals - the question was running the Club - Not Owning it a Football Club is a Business - you Run it like a Business - and you should have experienced people doing that - who owns it is not relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 3 hours ago, javeajag said: SD Eibar .....fan owned finished 14th in la Liga with an average attendance of 4500 amazing they have stayed in la Liga for 5 years ...........we could compare them with say with Espanyol owned by a Chinese businessman who have been relegated This is not about Fan Ownership - thats not whats being discussed its who is best suited for Running a Football Club The same Chinese Owners got Espanyol into the EUFA Cup - Espanyol have narrowly avoided Relegation on numerous occasions under previous owners - including a 90 th minute Goal Saving them - they simply ran out of luck - the Owners being Chinese had zero to do with it Our Owners are not Chinese we have been relegated twice in the last few Years - we are in Tier £ of Scottish Football - but I forgot - its a Grand Conspiracy from Corrupt Scottish Football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 3 hours ago, javeajag said: SD Eibar .....fan owned finished 14th in la Liga with an average attendance of 4500 amazing they have stayed in la Liga for 5 years ...........we could compare them with say with Espanyol owned by a Chinese businessman who have been relegated After the previous owner handed over a debt free Club - I never said its not possible - just very rarely does it work - I think outwith the Premier you simply dint have the ability to balance the books without external financial support and you have to have very experienced business people at the helm to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said: I always get confused with these discussions. Do we not have fans who are also business people? If they say they support fan ownership have they stopped running their business? Also, as someone who is absolutely not a businessman I do feel a little slighted by the logical extension of the argument which basically says I have nothing to offer. We need to have a range of different backgrounds and experience in my opinion. Martin - in a small Club it gets down to one thing - Money - and balancing the books its as simple as that - Yes people have things to offer but your core has to be people who know how to generate revenue - its as brutal as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: And run by very Wealthy Individuals - the question was running the Club - Not Owning it a Football Club is a Business - you Run it like a Business - and you should have experienced people doing that - who owns it is not relevant So Barcelona debt is c750m real Madrid debt c500m man u debt c430m english championship losses 2017/18.....£375m to be honest I could do that .....business people one and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, javeajag said: So Barcelona debt is c750m real Madrid debt c500m man u debt c430m english championship losses 2017/18.....£375m to be honest I could do that .....business people one and all Debt doesn’t matter a jot if you can service it. Madrid’s yearly turnover is twice their debt and the club is valued at £ 4 billion. There debt is less than half of their annual income and a fraction of their value. It’s the equivalent of a small car loan to you or me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Martin - in a small Club it gets down to one thing - Money - and balancing the books its as simple as that - Yes people have things to offer but your core has to be people who know how to generate revenue - its as brutal as that Jim, I definitely agree that balancing the books is vitally important and whilst having a large budget does not guarantee success it is preferable to having a small budget. I am pleased you said the core when referring to people generating revenue as I am not pushing a no businessman approach, we definitely need them but we also need people with other skills as well. I think that when fan ownership comes up, here or at other clubs, people start imaging the guy who sits behind them on matchdays suddenly making the key decisions. What is important is the people the owners put in place to generate revenue, make sure the office runs efficiently, deal with media, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Debt doesn’t matter a jot if you can service it. Madrid’s yearly turnover is twice their debt and the club is valued at £ 4 billion. There debt is less than half of their annual income and a fraction of their value. It’s the equivalent of a small car loan to you or well in their last accounts income is 757m and liabilities including debt are 606m but of course to a point you are right in our situation you only need a plan to spend your income and no more which is simple enough as borrowing and debt are hard to get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: I appreciate I over simplified it. Fascinated by the whole RBS episode and how it almost brought financial armagedon to UK and world economies. So many more people at fault and not just Fred. Some great books on it. Iain Martin particularly good. Some people, including one on here, deny they even worked for RBS at the time. It’s a kind of ‘erase memory, take no responsibility’ syndrome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 2:51 PM, Fawlty Towers said: Jim, I definitely agree that balancing the books is vitally important and whilst having a large budget does not guarantee success it is preferable to having a small budget. I am pleased you said the core when referring to people generating revenue as I am not pushing a no businessman approach, we definitely need them but we also need people with other skills as well. I think that when fan ownership comes up, here or at other clubs, people start imaging the guy who sits behind them on matchdays suddenly making the key decisions. What is important is the people the owners put in place to generate revenue, make sure the office runs efficiently, deal with media, etc. Martin - in the Promotion Year we had a blend of the Board - the Team and Fans via Volunteers and OneThistle making key decisions on things that affected the Fans - it covered everything you have stated - and it didn't need "Fan Ownership" ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Martin - in the Promotion Year we had a blend of the Board - the Team and Fans via Volunteers and OneThistle making key decisions on things that affected the Fans - it covered everything you have stated - and it didn't need "Fan Ownership" ................ Whatever happened to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, scotty said: Whatever happened to that? After the First Season in the Premier there was a change in Policy - and it was decided that the Club would take on Full Time Staff to fulfil the roles that OneThistle had been carrying out for Free - there were also changes on the Board and Fan Marketing / Promotion / Matchday Experience came under the remit of a Director Similar happened on Matchday Operations / Management also carried out for Free So the OneThistle Team were told they were surplus to requirements and a number of Volunteers told they were no longer required - as there Role was being replaced by "Professionals" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: After the First Season in the Premier there was a change in Policy - and it was decided that the Club would take on Full Time Staff to fulfil the roles that OneThistle had been carrying out for Free - there were also changes on the Board and Fan Marketing / Promotion / Matchday Experience came under the remit of a Director Similar happened on Matchday Operations / Management also carried out for Free So the OneThistle Team were told they were surplus to requirements and a number of Volunteers told they were no longer required - as there Role was being replaced by "Professionals" So, maybe it did need "Fan Ownership" ................ ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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