Jump to content

What if they shut down the season?


West Ender
 Share

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

For probably the first time, I’m not seeing the light at end of the tunnel.

Im now 26 weeks out last year on home office, bars, restaurants etc closed here, travel corridor between Norway and UK closed, no idea when I can get back to see my parents never mind get to Firhill, plus it’s January (always a down month), weather is atrocious (wind, rain, snow) so can’t even get out in my fishing boat (technically I’m not allowed to go out with my fishing mate as no cross house contact, not going in North Sea alone into 150 meters depth), due to weather.  Hopefully things improve soon, as another year of this would truly grip my shit.

Think we are all feeling it. Especially in the midst of winter. I think that's why the suspension of our games even harder to accept, albeit I can see a semblance of the why. Even watching our average team passed a few hours.....add in no pubs, restaurants, live music and family and friends at distance and yep even an optimist like me can struggle. All you can say is we are nearer the end than the start. Surely! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Think we are all feeling it. Especially in the midst of winter. I think that's why the suspension of our games even harder to accept, albeit I can see a semblance of the why. Even watching our average team passed a few hours.....add in no pubs, restaurants, live music and family and friends at distance and yep even an optimist like me can struggle. All you can say is we are nearer the end than the start. Surely! 

Imagine what it’s like for a pessimist like me. The thing that keeps me going is thinking I knew I was right

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not totally convinced that the season will be finished prematurely, as it stands the Government have not actually stipulated that we have to stop playing. That decision was made by the SPFL/SFA due to the current prevalence of the virus in the community.

If you look at the daily numbers when the league started in mid october they were trending upwards and reached a peak of 1700 odds the week after our first game. They began trending downwards after this point until christmas time when they began going up again.

So what we can see is that they allowed football at our level to commence when cases were rising and we were hitting the same daily numbers as we are now. The numbers we are currently seeing are beginning to decrease, albeit slowly, so it's not entirely out of the question that by next week we are seeing a decline in cases and hospital admissions and we can begin moving towards starting the league again.

It's also worth remembering that we began the leagues in October when there was no vaccine on the immediate horizon. The rollout of this is now well underway and this will be getting ramped up as weeks go on.

I think as long as the numbers continue to trend downwards then we'll see the resumption of the leagues by mid to end of February.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, redandyellowallover said:

I'm not totally convinced that the season will be finished prematurely, as it stands the Government have not actually stipulated that we have to stop playing. That decision was made by the SPFL/SFA due to the current prevalence of the virus in the community.

If you look at the daily numbers when the league started in mid october they were trending upwards and reached a peak of 1700 odds the week after our first game. They began trending downwards after this point until christmas time when they began going up again.

So what we can see is that they allowed football at our level to commence when cases were rising and we were hitting the same daily numbers as we are now. The numbers we are currently seeing are beginning to decrease, albeit slowly, so it's not entirely out of the question that by next week we are seeing a decline in cases and hospital admissions and we can begin moving towards starting the league again.

It's also worth remembering that we began the leagues in October when there was no vaccine on the immediate horizon. The rollout of this is now well underway and this will be getting ramped up as weeks go on.

I think as long as the numbers continue to trend downwards then we'll see the resumption of the leagues by mid to end of February.

You're assuming there's a general will amongst the League One & League Two clubs to continue. I have a feeling the majority would rather call it a day for the season. I seem to mind that some clubs weren't even that happy to start the season playing behind closed doors. Besides decision back then was likely based on seeing things return to normal by now. At very worst thinking that a limited in number home support would be in place. Further, and not meaning to imply that part time clubs lack ambition, but let's say most of them play the long game in terms of progress. So if financially prudent ending the season now may be no great shakes.

Of course the SPFL may insist on continuance, but as others have pointed out the SPFL hierarchy barely acknowledges our existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is also the politics. The football industry is currently held in low esteem by the government, partly due to the SFA/SPFL sounding off and partly due to a player holiday in Dubai. In the current climate with all the country in lockdown, it would not be great PR to start allowing part time players to travel around the country twice a week. The lockdown level will need to be reduced, possibly to level 2 over a wide area, before the authorities will have any option to start leagues one and two again  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

You're assuming there's a general will amongst the League One & League Two clubs to continue. I have a feeling the majority would rather call it a day for the season. I seem to mind that some clubs weren't even that happy to start the season playing behind closed doors. Besides decision back then was likely based on seeing things return to normal by now. At very worst thinking that a limited in number home support would be in place. Further, and not meaning to imply that part time clubs lack ambition, but let's say most of them play the long game in terms of progress. So if financially prudent ending the season now may be no great shakes.

Of course the SPFL may insist on continuance, but as others have pointed out the SPFL hierarchy barely acknowledges our existence.

Well yes, that is all based on the assumption that the clubs want to re-start but I think that there will be enough of them looking to do that.

11 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

There is also the politics. The football industry is currently held in low esteem by the government, partly due to the SFA/SPFL sounding off and partly due to a player holiday in Dubai. In the current climate with all the country in lockdown, it would not be great PR to start allowing part time players to travel around the country twice a week. The lockdown level will need to be reduced, possibly to level 2 over a wide area, before the authorities will have any option to start leagues one and two again  

Nicola Sturgeon has been pretty clear that decisions on whether football continues, at the moment anyway, is completely in the hands of the SFA/SPFL. I don't know why the country would have to move to level 2 of restrictions to allow part time football to continue when it played for months in Level 3 and 4 prior to the new year. There has been absolutely zero suggestion from anyone in Government that this would be required. I think that now the kick up over the Dubai situation is beginning to settle down the SPFL will be more open to re-opening the leagues.

I also don't see why there should be such a worry about a limited number of football players and staff travelling and playing games when thousands of people country wide are travelling daily to manufacturing and construction sites. I appreciate that there is an economic trade off with regards to manufacturing and construction but from a public health or "PR" perspective it's obvious what is the one with the least amount of risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Glasto cancelled,
  • Olympics probably heading for the bin,
  • Rearranged Euros likewise,
  • Spain shutting out Brits until 70% of us are vaccinated,
  • NI saying high probability of extension of lockdown to Easter or end of April,
  • top medic in USA saying we should be OK by autumn 
  • chance of League 1 restarting this season - tending towards zero
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, redandyellowallover said:

Well yes, that is all based on the assumption that the clubs want to re-start but I think that there will be enough of them looking to do that.

Nicola Sturgeon has been pretty clear that decisions on whether football continues, at the moment anyway, is completely in the hands of the SFA/SPFL. I don't know why the country would have to move to level 2 of restrictions to allow part time football to continue when it played for months in Level 3 and 4 prior to the new year. There has been absolutely zero suggestion from anyone in Government that this would be required. I think that now the kick up over the Dubai situation is beginning to settle down the SPFL will be more open to re-opening the leagues.

I also don't see why there should be such a worry about a limited number of football players and staff travelling and playing games when thousands of people country wide are travelling daily to manufacturing and construction sites. I appreciate that there is an economic trade off with regards to manufacturing and construction but from a public health or "PR" perspective it's obvious what is the one with the least amount of risk.

The advice is don't travel unless absolutely necessary. Is Elgin v Stranraer absolutely necessary ?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Norgethistle posted yesterday that he felt that he could see no end in sight now. He's not alone in having lows during this pandemic. The football authorities seem to have forgotten that elite sport was allowed to continue to help communities through lockdown,  and that included lower league clubs.  Many of us have been there. Hopefully with spring and summer coming,  things will improve. One of my favourite photos is of Pulpit  Rock in (I think) Lysefiorden, "round the corner" from Norge in Stavanger. I took it in the summer several years ago, and the rock and blue sky look good from the fiord. Got it transferred to my phone and tablet, among others to remind me of happier times. 

Being retired, I don't work now,  so as well as walking the dog, I've been doing a few projects, including looking at any potential origins of the junior football team Valencia in 1876, Thistle’s first recorded game.  (Anniversary February  19.) Many better historians have been there before me.  Looked at roads, streets,  geographical areas, ponds and parks, (most football clubs are geographical in origin), rugby and rowing clubs (Clyde and Rangers  originated from such clubs), clubs  and not unusual for the time,  temperance societies. 

Looked at businesses in the locale  (Seville fc in Spain originated from Dundee sailors playing.  There was a big trade in oranges for marmalade). The 1875 Post Office Annual Glasgow Directory brought up the Glasgow and Valencia Steam Packet Company at 47 Union Street Glasgow. Research on this company led to first Henderson  Brothers and it's successor company the Anchor Line. I wondered whether or not the football club had any links to the shipping agents.  No ship named Valencia,  although many of the Line's ships had names ending in "ia", e.g. Caledonia,  Victoria, and so on.  Henderson Brothers did acquire a shipyard at Whiteinch,  but the only "Valencia " was constructed on the Clyde later,  in 1880. (Watt Library newspaper index.)

Further research on the Anchor line took me to the Glasgow University Great War project, and American University libraries.  Glasgow has an article on D & W Henderson  Shipbuilders and Marine Engineers, Meadowside Glasgow.  The University of Illinois have a scanned copy of the History of the Anchor Line 1852 to1911. At the University of Minnesota, I found scanned copies of the Red Anchor magazine, the company's staff magazine,  but unfortunately the magazine started in 1918. Interesting though.

Where has this got me? Not much further in establishing the origin of the football club.  But the ships that sailed from Glasgow to Valencia  around 1876 are the only link to the area that I can find. Lots of interesting information, but I need to get to the Mitchell when this is all over! (The National Newspaper Archive is good for old newspapers,  but is subscription only.)

I wonder if any of the club's more professional historians have been to the Anchor Line before me?

Edited by East Kent Jag II
Anchor
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

EKJ, according to the Scottish Football Historical Archive they were a "Senior" team in Glasgow and lasted one season before going defunct 1876-1877.

Talk of Spain and oranges reminds me there was a woman doon the baras who used to sell oranges shouting "Fresh Seville oranges. Nane o' yer foreign muck". Needless to say Seville was pronounced to rhyme with  exile.

Edited by a f kincaid
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

EKJ, according to the Scottish Football Historical Archive they were a "Senior" team in Glasgow and lasted one season before going defunct 1876-1877.

Talk of Spain and oranges reminds me there was a woman doon the baras who used to sell oranges shouting "Fresh Seville oranges. Nane o' yer foreign muck". Needless to say Seville was pronounced to rhyme with  exile.

Saw a joke in the 1918 first edition of the Red Anchor magazine.  Drunk approaches the tender transferring  passengers to the "SS Caledonia " , which was  taking them to New York.  The Caledonia was berthed in the Firth of Clyde off Greenock. Crew member says "have you got your ticket?"

Drunk  "No, can I buy one?"

Crew member "Yes.  That'll be six guineas."

Drunk, somewhat in confusion, "What?  To take me to Rothesay?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The advice is don't travel unless absolutely necessary. Is Elgin v Stranraer absolutely necessary ?

No, it's probably not but then again neither is QOTS v Caley Thistle but those sorts games are going ahead because the Scottish Government have said that elite sport can continue. I think that renders the point of whether football games are necessary completely moot. 

The bottom line is that the SPFL have the power to start up the lower leagues any time they see fit, it's completely different to the situation we had back in March 2020 whereby the leagues were not allowed to restart.

With the downward trends in cases continuing then the SPFL will likely begin talks with the clubs with regards to re-starting. As I have noted before, the effect that a small number of footballers travelling around the country will have on the spread of this virus in comparison to people travelling to and working on building sites and in factories every day is pretty miniscule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, redandyellowallover said:

No, it's probably not but then again neither is QOTS v Caley Thistle but those sorts games are going ahead because the Scottish Government have said that elite sport can continue. I think that renders the point of whether football games are necessary completely moot. 

The bottom line is that the SPFL have the power to start up the lower leagues any time they see fit, it's completely different to the situation we had back in March 2020 whereby the leagues were not allowed to restart.

With the downward trends in cases continuing then the SPFL will likely begin talks with the clubs with regards to re-starting. As I have noted before, the effect that a small number of footballers travelling around the country will have on the spread of this virus in comparison to people travelling to and working on building sites and in factories every day is pretty miniscule.

I genuinely hope that you are right, but ....

.... turn your question round and ask why it would be in the interest of SFA/SPFL (not the clubs) to restart the leagues ?

less than half the member clubs and a tiny percentage of supporters are impacted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I genuinely hope that you are right, but ....

.... turn your question round and ask why it would be in the interest of SFA/SPFL (not the clubs) to restart the leagues ?

less than half the member clubs and a tiny percentage of supporters are impacted.

So do I :D

Probably for the same reasons they started the lower leagues in the first place.  There are plenty of clubs that are wanting to play and the SPFL can't ignore them. 

Look at Brechin for example, one club who you'd probably think would want to bin the season but they have signed a player in this transfer window. So you'd think they're expecting football to resume at some stage, with their chairman on the SPFL board. I know that's tenuous at best but it's maybe an insight into how the SPFL board are looking at it. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

Norgethistle posted yesterday that he felt that he could see no end in sight now. He's not alone in having lows during this pandemic. The football authorities seem to have forgotten that elite sport was allowed to continue to help communities through lockdown,  and that included lower league clubs.  Many of us have been there. Hopefully with spring and summer coming,  things will improve. One of my favourite photos is of Pulpit  Rock in (I think) Lysefiorden, "round the corner" from Norge in Stavanger. I took it in the summer several years ago, and the rock and blue sky look good from the fiord. Got it transferred to my phone and tablet, among others to remind me of happier times. 

Being retired, I don't work now,  so as well as walking the dog, I've been doing a few projects, including looking at any potential origins of the junior football team Valencia in 1876, Thistle’s first recorded game.  (Anniversary February  19.) Many better historians have been there before me.  Looked at roads, streets,  geographical areas, ponds and parks, (most football clubs are geographical in origin), rugby and rowing clubs (Clyde and Rangers  originated from such clubs), clubs  and not unusual for the time,  temperance societies. 

Looked at businesses in the locale  (Seville fc in Spain originated from Dundee sailors playing.  There was a big trade in oranges for marmalade). The 1875 Post Office Annual Glasgow Directory brought up the Glasgow and Valencia Steam Packet Company at 47 Union Street Glasgow. Research on this company led to first Henderson  Brothers and it's successor company the Anchor Line. I wondered whether or not the football club had any links to the shipping agents.  No ship named Valencia,  although many of the Line's ships had names ending in "ia", e.g. Caledonia,  Victoria, and so on.  Henderson Brothers did acquire a shipyard at Whiteinch,  but the only "Valencia " was constructed on the Clyde later,  in 1880. (Watt Library newspaper index.)

Further research on the Anchor line took me to the Glasgow University Great War project, and American University libraries.  Glasgow has an article on D & W Henderson  Shipbuilders and Marine Engineers, Meadowside Glasgow.  The University of Illinois have a scanned copy of the History of the Anchor Line 1852 to1911. At the University of Minnesota, I found scanned copies of the Red Anchor magazine, the company's staff magazine,  but unfortunately the magazine started in 1918. Interesting though.

Where has this got me? Not much further in establishing the origin of the football club.  But the ships that sailed from Glasgow to Valencia  around 1876 are the only link to the area that I can find. Lots of interesting information, but I need to get to the Mitchell when this is all over! (The National Newspaper Archive is good for old newspapers,  but is subscription only.)

I wonder if any of the club's more professional historians have been to the Anchor Line before me?

To one of your points ....football in Spain is said to have started in Huelva in Andalusia in 1874 where British engineers, surveyors and workers were working in mining, railways and associated activities.

Apparently there was a Scotland v England match in the area in 1880.

And still today there is a Pena Mackay (Penya being the Spanish word for supporters club) at Recreativo Huelva the oldest club in Spain. Mackay was a doctor from Caithness who went to Huelva as with rio tinto. He was president of the club from 1903 to 1906

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

To one of your points ....football in Spain is said to have started in Huelva in Andalusia in 1874 where British engineers, surveyors and workers were working in mining, railways and associated activities.

Apparently there was a Scotland v England match in the area in 1880.

And still today there is a Pena Mackay (Penya being the Spanish word for supporters club) at Recreativo Huelva the oldest club in Spain. Mackay was a doctor from Caithness who went to Huelva as with rio tinto. He was president of the club from 1903 to 1906

Thanks for the further information.  I believe Seville's first game was against....  Huelva!

Huelva was also where during WWII "The man who never was", Glyndwr Michael, AKA known as Major Martin was taken when found at sea by Spanish  fishermen. He was buried there.

I tell my friends that there is a very tenuous link between  "The man who never was" and Partick Thistle.  Answer  Kris Doolan - "The goal that never was" against Morton :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

EKJ, according to the Scottish Football Historical Archive they were a "Senior" team in Glasgow and lasted one season before going defunct 1876-1877.

Talk of Spain and oranges reminds me there was a woman doon the baras who used to sell oranges shouting "Fresh Seville oranges. Nane o' yer foreign muck". Needless to say Seville was pronounced to rhyme with  exile.

Reminds me of the restaurant at Stirling Uni, when one of the dishes on offer was a lovely looking mix of rice, saffron, green beans, seafood... proudly advertised on the menu board as "Pie Ella."

Maybe she worked in the the kitchen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I genuinely hope that you are right, but ....

.... turn your question round and ask why it would be in the interest of SFA/SPFL (not the clubs) to restart the leagues ?

less than half the member clubs and a tiny percentage of supporters are impacted.

If you continue down that path, why is it in the interest of SFA/SPFL to have the lower leagues at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, jaggy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55775179

Possibly testing  in Div 1 & 2 to resume playing

Struggling to find any detail on the proposals. Assume testing will be the same as Premier and championship teams are doing but anyone got any info on date to restart training, possibility of extending the transfer window, when league and cup games will restart or extending the season beyond the beginning of May?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More power to your elbow EKJ! There was a similarly romantically named senior side, Valetta, who played at Alexandra Park in Dennistoun between 1874 and 1875. Speculative, but they could well have 'rebranded' as Valencia.

If you're interested, send an e-mail to [email protected] and I'll send you an invaluable and comprehensive list of all these historical clubs.

In recent years, we've been quite excited to discover the existence of Partick Thistle Cricket Club, who played at a ground in Partickhill in 1875, and the Partick Thistle flute band, which also existed in 1875. Keep your eyes peeled for any notices for these as we continue to strive for better knowledge of our own club's formation.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...