Tob Jag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 "If" reconstruction does actually happen then I hope the Premier League are no longer allowed a SPLIT to allow the rich to get richer and the rest to fight over any scraps that are left. The whole set up is corrupt. In the 'top' division lets have 17 teams play one home and one away against each other. No play off. No split! Leaves plenty time for mickey mouse competitions and winter break. Next divisions similar Although there are bigger things to concern ourselves with right this very second. Stay Safe, Stay Home, Save Lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 This will be interesting if correct .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) I can't see anything wrong in Budge's plan to put things on hold for a season or two until a permanent arrangement can be agreed. This seems fundamentally fairminded and sensible. Perhaps that period could be used by clubs to end the old firm power of veto, and put the SPFL Board on an equitable footing. I don't know if the voting was corrupt - I don't think Doncaster is smart enough to pull that off - and I don't know what the corruption would seek to achieve. He seems however to be incompetent, and there needs to be a root and branch review of not just the most recent fiasco, but also the SPFL modus operandi. He is also grossly overpaid. Edited April 19, 2020 by eljaggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 There are only two times that the league table has parity; when the season ends, and when everyone has played all teams once home and once away. If we were getting relegated after they’d calculated the table at the ‘absolute halfway’ point I honestly think I’d personally be okay with it. I suspect though that such a calculation would cause havoc with the Premiership as Rangers 2020 form would be disregarded. Mind you as we all know from the stupid split that league never had parity beyond the ‘halfway’ point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, javeajag said: This will be interesting if correct .... Where did you get this from? Some good news here, and not just because of the length of my hair right now!! Ahhhh, its ok, I have found it now and I see that it has been denied by Gove too. Edited April 19, 2020 by jaf found my answer elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, jaf said: Where did you get this from? Some good news here, and not just because of the length of my hair right now!! Ahhhh, its ok, I have found it now and I see that it has been denied by Gove too. Which means it is more than likely true 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, jaf said: Where did you get this from? Some good news here, and not just because of the length of my hair right now!! Ahhhh, its ok, I have found it now and I see that it has been denied by Gove too. It will be something along these lines depending how it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, javeajag said: It will be something along these lines depending how it goes Could be but I suspect there'll be age restrictions and possibly regionalisation involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 55 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Could be but I suspect there'll be age restrictions and possibly regionalisation involved. Plus the dates at the bottom are probably guess work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebaldie Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, sb1876 said: Doncaster should have been on the phone to Thistle saying, look we know you are the ones who will be shafted by this as you have been disadvantaged by playing a game less, if we leveled up the games your fate was still in your own hands so here's what we are going to do ....... Not phoning club's who's vote apparently didn't matter! What a Pillock this bloke is. Was there a phone call a couple of weeks ago to Queen of the South along the lines of... 'Neil here, we're considering a proposal to terminate the lower leagues as they stand, would you approve it?' QOS - 'Aw wait a minute, if Thistle win their game in hand, we're doon without kicking another ball and still eight games to go!' Neil - 'Eh, Thistle won't be playing their game in hand' QOS - 'Whit? Really? Is that allowed? Aye OK then' Edited April 19, 2020 by weebaldie future tense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 I heard Les Gray on the radio today. The vice chair at Hamilton proclaimed he is a born and bred Thistle fan. Imo he either fudged or didn't really answer the questions, except for sticking up for Doncaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 hours ago, partickthedog said: I agree with your sentiment (and fear!), and Doncaster/the SPFL never cease to amaze and disgust. However, I cannot see a practicable form-of re-structuring that saves Hearts, but not us. Either there would have to be an odd number of teams in one or more divisions (which has never happened), or we would be down to a Championship league of 8, which is hard to believe. Would teams play each other 6 times (42 games) or play each other 4 times (28 games) and then split into top and bottom 4s playing each other home and away (6 games, making a total of 34)? Either prospect is horrendous. 3 hours ago, Jagtastic said: Agree with some of your points but not this. The fundamental issue here is two clubs (as things stand) being disadvantaged/punished/whatever as a direct result of this unique situation. A temporary solution is better than punishing clubs because the current season couldn't be finished. If it is to be temporary then the next phase of restructuring will, surely, be outlined at the start of the new season so clubs will know from the kick off what they need to do and have a fair sporting chance of doing so, whether that is a return to the current set up or otherwise. Unfortunately, the premise of your final paragraph can never be taken as read. What is to stop the SPFL calling on a vote on a proposition if the league isn’t matching their expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Auld Jag said: I heard Les Gray on the radio today. The vice chair at Hamilton proclaimed he is a born and bred Thistle fan. Imo he either fudged or didn't really answer the questions, except for sticking up for Doncaster. The longer he droned on, the more he was making out Doncaster was practically a saint and incapable of bullying anyone. It was all the media's fault that this has blown up, although he did admit the actual vote could have been handled better. Between the clubs and the SPFL they can't even agree what paper they were sent to consider. He denied it was 110 pages. It was only 10 pages. If I understood Ms Budge correctly she said she had gained a concession from the board that reorganisation of the leagues would be considered. He said that that had always been in the proposition paper. Truly, you couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: The longer he droned on, the more he was making out Doncaster was practically a saint and incapable of bullying anyone. It was all the media's fault that this has blown up, although he did admit the actual vote could have been handled better. Between the clubs and the SPFL they can't even agree what paper they were sent to consider. He denied it was 110 pages. It was only 10 pages. If I understood Ms Budge correctly she said she had gained a concession from the board that reorganisation of the leagues would be considered. He said that that had always been in the proposition paper. Truly, you couldn't make it up. First highlighted point is a typical retort from anyone who has a friend/colleague/self, accused of bullying. I was half expecting him to say it was the Doncaster and the board who were being bullied. Second point, yes he could and it sounded like that was exactly what he was doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 hours ago, jaf said: Its a rubbish solution which would gain little support from our fans if it wasn't being done to benefit us by no relegation. The Scottish game needs permanent reconstruction not some half-baked half-assed temporary solution. And, the supporters should be represented in any discussion on reconstruction. Who else would completely change their business model without considering the views of their customers/investors? Ironically, by accepting this, our fans will be doing exactly what they have been slagging everyone else off for - accepting an imperfect solution on the basis of enlightened self-interest, and turning a blind eye to blatant conflicts of interest!! I am of course not saying in all the circumstances we should not accept this, but lets acknowledge its a far from ideal solution to a one-off leveraged opportunity to try to reconstruct the Scottish game positively. I totally agree with you. We do need a complete overhaul of the leagues. The 12 & 10 club leagues are a nonsense! However we need to focus on the immediate need. Budge, Cormack, Morris in (Inverness) perhaps Rangers and some others appear to either believe or now accept relegating clubs in the current context is fundamentally unfair and wrong. The question is are there enough who feel like this to help Hearts, Stranraer and ourselves if and when it comes to a vote. Personally I would like to think there will be but if I am being honest - we'll be in League 1 next season. We already know Cameron (Ayr) is not going to vote our way and who can trust Dundee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 4 hours ago, javeajag said: This will be interesting if correct .... Don’t believe the tabloids 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 6 hours ago, jaf said: Its a rubbish solution which would gain little support from our fans if it wasn't being done to benefit us by no relegation. The Scottish game needs permanent reconstruction not some half-baked half-assed temporary solution. And, the supporters should be represented in any discussion on reconstruction. Who else would completely change their business model without considering the views of their customers/investors? Ironically, by accepting this, our fans will be doing exactly what they have been slagging everyone else off for - accepting an imperfect solution on the basis of enlightened self-interest, and turning a blind eye to blatant conflicts of interest!! I am of course not saying in all the circumstances we should not accept this, but lets acknowledge its a far from ideal solution to a one-off leveraged opportunity to try to reconstruct the Scottish game positively. To quote you again having already recorded I agree with you especially about long-term change to leagues! Budge has said specifically the job of the Task Force (TF) is to come up with a temporary solution for the current situation and to right the wrongs that have been done (to Partick and Stranraer) and will be done to Hearts if SPL vote to end season. She also says if the TF tries to resolve the issue that have been talked about for the past 10 years they'll get no where. I agree with her. From our perspective hopefully Budge can get a deal that will keep us in the championship. That will buy us at least a season to improve and do better. When whatever temporary arrangement ends we must make sure we are no lower than 5/6th in the table and preferably challenging for the league title! Once this is all over then we can as 42 clubs look at fundamental change to the league structure. Two divisions of 16 would be interesting (tongue in cheek) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 Fundamental long term change should not be on the agenda just now. This is crisis management. Anne Budge is absolutely right to focus on a short term fix. Quite certain that a benevolent dictator would design a 14-10-10-10 system, purely to eliminate relegation. But I'm not so confident within a democracy, as self interest is bound to kick in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, allyo said: Quite certain that a benevolent dictator would design a 14-10-10-10 system, purely to eliminate relegation. But I'm not so confident within a democracy, as self interest is bound to kick in again. Neil Lenin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 hours ago, eljaggo said: I can't see anything wrong in Budge's plan to put things on hold for a season or two until a permanent arrangement can be agreed. This seems fundamentally fairminded and sensible. Perhaps that period could be used by clubs to end the old firm power of veto, and put the SPFL Board on an equitable footing. I don't know if the voting was corrupt - I don't think Doncaster is smart enough to pull that off - and I don't know what the corruption would seek to achieve. He seems however to be incompetent, and there needs to be a root and branch review of not just the most recent fiasco, but also the SPFL modus operandi. He is also grossly overpaid. We are paying a CEO £388k a year! Surely anyone being paid at that level is clever enough to "fix" a vote! In fact I would have hoped that would have been one of the first questions asked by the SPFL Board of all the candidates at their interview! I have a good and quite novel idea for future votes. I have heard of something called a secret ballot! Seems an individual, say a club Chairman or CEO could vote without anyone knowing how he/she voted. It can even be done by post and online by sending your vote to a limited access address which is only opened after the closing date for voting! No more counting of votes as they are received and no more phoning round to canvass for votes. Independent Review of SPFL might suggest this! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, exiledjag said: We are paying a CEO £388k a year! Surely anyone being paid at that level is clever enough to "fix" a vote! In fact I would have hoped that would have been one of the first questions asked by the SPFL Board of all the candidates at their interview! I have a good and quite novel idea for future votes. I have heard of something called a secret ballot! Seems an individual, say a club Chairman or CEO could vote without anyone knowing how he/she voted. It can even be done by post and online by sending your vote to a limited access address which is only opened after the closing date for voting! No more counting of votes as they are received and no more phoning round to canvass for votes. Independent Review of SPFL might suggest this! Are you insane? We could not possibly have a vote where the decision is not known before everyone has voted. How could they make sure they get the right result ? No no , that just would not do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 Sticking in the throat a bit Just watched a cracker of a match there on BBC Scotland Sportscene (Scottish Cup semi) QOS 4 Aberdeen 3. But wit a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 hour ago, topcat said: Sticking in the throat a bit Just watched a cracker of a match there on BBC Scotland Sportscene (Scottish Cup semi) QOS 4 Aberdeen 3. But wit a game. Pretty sure Ian mccall played a large part in assembling that decent QOS side as I’m sure the poster mccall out would of course acknowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Out Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Third Lanark said: Pretty sure Ian mccall played a large part in assembling that decent QOS side as I’m sure the poster mccall out would of course acknowledge Corrrect me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Gordon Chisholm was the Queen's manager that day, while McCall was in charge of the team that lost the other semi final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, sandy said: Neil Lenin ? Might have had a better chance with Molly Stallan. Thought to be fair, Doncaster is a bito of a Tito Edited April 20, 2020 by allyo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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