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Court It Is Then


Bobbyhouston
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I know the SPFL board wanted the power to decide what would happen if any future season had to be cancelled and this has been refused. Surely rules on what would happen if  the season  has to be called early  again, should be in place before the league kicks off ?

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This whole episode reminds me of my now divorced mate.  Wife split up with him after a fling.  He could have had a standard divorce etc.  Took it to court, kids, income etc.  What happened?  She got what she was entitled to and both were much more out of picket.

Aye it was unfair to him. Yes he was hurting and bitter (which was fair to be).  But it meant f all in court and the law. 

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6 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

The majority of these teams voted to end the season. Meaning they voted to end the season without play offs and losing any chance they had off competing in play offs.

 

6 hours ago, jaf said:

So they didn't vote out of self interest you mean as voting that way denied them a potential promotion?

I think we are forgetting that the vote to end the season had the award of prize money attached. If the SPFL are to be believed there were 10 clubs on the verge of going out of business. Some of these 'threatened' clubs could well have been in play-off positions. So while voting to call the season could be seen as acting for the greater good it could also be seen as acting in short term self-interest by trading the play-off and opportunity for promotion to stave off imminent liquidation/ bankruptcy! 

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6 hours ago, fenski said:

I agree. And this bit of the statement "But I ask everyone associated with Thistle to never forget today. To never forget how it feels to be relegated unfairly. To never forget that there are many good decent people and clubs in Scotland who stood with us, publicly and privately – but there are some whose fear and self-interest got in the way of doing the right thing." is better left unsaid. The sooner the club drops the victim mentality and unsettled scores attitude, the better it will be for everyone.

Afraid I disagree. 

We fought the good fight and lost! That doesn't make the relegation any less of an injustice or unfair. I see no problem with Budge and Low letting the world know how they feel and  the impact of the SPFL action on the two clubs. I don't see it as portraying us as victims but I do  see it as saying we won't forget and that we will come back by settling our scores on the football field. 

To be frank I don't feel we should be trying to rebuild relationships. It up to the SPFL and Clubs to make the effort not us. 

I just want us to put a team on the field that plays  attractive football and wins game.  The clubs who refused to help us or called for our expulsion can go jump for all I care! In future we vote for our interests! 

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3 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I know the SPFL board wanted the power to decide what would happen if any future season had to be cancelled and this has been refused. Surely rules on what would happen if  the season  has to be called early  again, should be in place before the league kicks off ?

Don’t worry AJ , they’ll make it up as they go along .

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5 hours ago, allyo said:

But there was no rule for what happens when the season is finished early. They had to make something up. To do that they held a vote, in which the clubs could have chosen to mitigate the damage, spread it around. And they chose not to. That was their right; they chose to load the pain on to  a few clubs rather than distribute it more evenly.

You may argue that clubs, as companies, have a duty to protect their own interests. That may be the case. However if this is strictly applied then it follows that those making the decisions which affect Scottish football cannot act in the wider interest of Scottish football.

Without making this a polarised debate, surely you can accept that there is something wrong. Not necessarily in the way that things were conducted, but in the very structure which results in decisions being made in this way.  I've always said that our only chance in court was if there had been misconduct; if the process was followed then we were always on to a loser.

However, I still think there is something very wrong with the system. And I think to say the "rules" have been applied "fairly" is a stretch.

The Clubs were blackmailed into finishing the league early after they were told no prize would be released otherwise.

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8 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

The Clubs were blackmailed into finishing the league early after they were told no prize would be released otherwise.

If that was the case I don't think arbitration would have found against us.  I think they were given a convenient option to help themselves and load the damage on to someone else.

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7 minutes ago, allyo said:

If that was the case I don't think arbitration would have found against us.  I think they were given a convenient option to help themselves and load the damage on to someone else.

Not doubting the legality of what they did but some Clubs were probably struggling for finance and it was easy option for them , self interest or whatever.

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2 hours ago, exiledjag said:

 

I think we are forgetting that the vote to end the season had the award of prize money attached. If the SPFL are to be believed there were 10 clubs on the verge of going out of business. Some of these 'threatened' clubs could well have been in play-off positions. So while voting to call the season could be seen as acting for the greater good it could also be seen as acting in short term self-interest by trading the play-off and opportunity for promotion to stave off imminent liquidation/ bankruptcy! 

ICT voted against ending the season, even though their finances was in a terrible state.

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1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

ICT voted against ending the season, even though their finances was in a terrible state.

Because they were banking on reconstruction meaning promotion for them?   Hence their disproportionate rage in all of this.  

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Not doubting the legality of what they did but some Clubs were probably struggling for finance and it was easy option for them , self interest or whatever.

Agree. And the fact  that it wasn't illegal shouldn't be somehow confused for a fair and decent solution

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15 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

Colin McAdam may have been a minor Prince but he was no Penalty King!  5 taken, 4 converted (80%).

If such a title can ever be bestowed on a player Jimmy Davidson fits the bill.   34 taken, 29 converted (85%).

Didn't Jered Stirling  have a good scoring record from penalties?

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It's not impossible that there will be a resurgence  of Covid-19 or something akin to it later this year, vaccine or no vaccine. So, if say Aberdeen or Dundee Utd (hopefully) find themselves bottom of the league at Christmas and the SPFL decides to end the season there, does anybody think that either one will quietly "accept their medicine" (i.e. accept relegation), as many people were saying that Hearts and Thistle should do?

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The difference next time is that there are testing regimes in place and lockdown measures are likely to be more targeted (e.g. in England already seeing town-specific measures).

Unless a second wave is Spanish flu-like (i.e. as bad if not worse than the first wave) I think elite sport with testing (and possibly bubble measures too, like they’ve had with international cricket) will keep the Premiership on the road even if it involves fixtures being played behind closed doors and/or in neutral venues.

This time round they’ve also got a sense of what they’d need to do in terms of broadcasting arrangements and rights, which they didn’t have mid-season last time and was part of the reason they left calling the Premiership until later.

The lower tiers and cup competitions are a different matter and are, I suspect, still pretty vulnerable to interruption if the public health measures fail to contain the virus in the winter. The Championship might (just) be viable with part of its reduced season behind closed doors but it’s plain as day Leagues One and Two would be very hard hit.

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4 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

The difference next time is that there are testing regimes in place and lockdown measures are likely to be more targeted (e.g. in England already seeing town-specific measures).

Unless a second wave is Spanish flu-like (i.e. as bad if not worse than the first wave) I think elite sport with testing (and possibly bubble measures too, like they’ve had with international cricket) will keep the Premiership on the road even if it involves fixtures being played behind closed doors and/or in neutral venues.

This time round they’ve also got a sense of what they’d need to do in terms of broadcasting arrangements and rights, which they didn’t have mid-season last time and was part of the reason they left calling the Premiership until later.

The lower tiers and cup competitions are a different matter and are, I suspect, still pretty vulnerable to interruption if the public health measures fail to contain the virus in the winter. The Championship might (just) be viable with part of its reduced season behind closed doors but it’s plain as day Leagues One and Two would be very hard hit.

WJ has highlighted a concern I have on the 20/21 season.  McGregor of Ross Co has already said that there should be no relegation or promotion for this season.  Others will think the same. Imo McGregor just wants to protect RCs Premier status.

The SPFL are going to ensure that the Premier League will keep going, for the Sky cash.  They (as we all now know) have a responsibility for ALL 42 clubs.  Their request to use emergency powers to call leagues etc was rejected.  Member clubs simply do not trust the executive.

But Doncaster gets a salary of £400,000 + to lead.  What's the point of his existence if he doesn't produce leadership, sponsorship etc? What plans does he have for the lower leagues?  The SPFL have had all summer to think about this.

Thistle need to take early action to ensure that they pressure the SPFL to ensure measures are in place in the event of a shutdown.  James Anderson did give cash to he clubs to deal with Covid interruptions, albeit not a lot per club.

I'm usually an optimist, but I can see us being in League 1 for 21/22 season by default

 

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10 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

ICT voted against ending the season, even though their finances was in a terrible state.

As did others Jags, Falkirk, Rangers all for their particular reasons. 

9 hours ago, jaf said:

Because they were banking on reconstruction meaning promotion for them?   Hence their disproportionate rage in all of this.  

I note the ICT Chairman was the odd one out in a three way fight for two Championship seats on the SPFL Board. The Chairs of Alloa and Dunfermline being re-elected. No surprise there given he was in cahoots with the Jags, would have been an advocate of change and generally critical of the SPFL therefore a pain in the a***! 

Better going for a couple of chairs already members of the establishment clique! 

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I see the Bournemouth Board of Directors are meeting to consider challenging the VAR/GLT (Goal Line Technology) error in the Sheffield Utd v  Aston Villa game. Readers may recall SH scored a goal that wasn't given and the game finished 0 - 0.

Subsequently Bournemouth have been relegated by a point. 

Perhaps someone from Hearts)/Jags should contact the club to tell them to  seek the FA's permission to go to court or they will face a charge for Breach of the relevant Article of Association. 

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9 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

I see the Bournemouth Board of Directors are meeting to consider challenging the VAR/GLT (Goal Line Technology) error in the Sheffield Utd v  Aston Villa game. Readers may recall SH scored a goal that wasn't given and the game finished 0 - 0.

Subsequently Bournemouth have been relegated by a point. 

Perhaps someone from Hearts)/Jags should contact the club to tell them to  seek the FA's permission to go to court or they will face a charge for Breach of the relevant Article of Association. 

It would be interesting to see how Bournemouth progress with that. I suspect there legal action is against the supplier of the goaline technology rather than the FA or the league so not much of precedent for Thistle which is a shame when you consider the recinded penalty  v QOS at home which if converted would have taken us off the bottom of the league.

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9 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

It's not impossible that there will be a resurgence  of Covid-19 or something akin to it later this year, vaccine or no vaccine. So, if say Aberdeen or Dundee Utd (hopefully) find themselves bottom of the league at Christmas and the SPFL decides to end the season there, does anybody think that either one will quietly "accept their medicine" (i.e. accept relegation), as many people were saying that Hearts and Thistle should do?

Dreams, dreams. Its difficult to select clubs I would like to be bottom if such a scenario were to be repeated but can't resist trying! Here goes

SPL: Ross County (other possibles Dundee Utd & St Mirren; RC know more about medicine) 

Championship: Raith Rovers (other possibles Ayr Utd, Dundee & "there will always be losers" QoS; opted for RR as Dundee might not be around by Christmas anyway) 

League 1: anyone but East Fife, Falkirk & Peterhead, oh and the Jags! 

League 2: Brechin. 

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13 minutes ago, laukat said:

It would be interesting to see how Bournemouth progress with that. I suspect there legal action is against the supplier of the goaline technology rather than the FA or the league so not much of precedent for Thistle which is a shame when you consider the recinded penalty  v QOS at home which if converted would have taken us off the bottom of the league.

An official from the Professional Referees Body (can't recall exact name of organisation) has already stated that VAR & GLT errors would not normally be considered grounds for invalidating the result of a game. Cards already being stacked! 

Will be surprised if Bournemouth take this further beyond perhaps seeking a legal opinion! 

They should just take their medicine! 

 

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3 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

Indeed Jaggernaut. 13 out of 13.  100% conversion rate but from a much smaller number of penalties.  If he had stayed at Thistle  he might have been the Crown Prince in waiting.

And none of them touched by an opposing keeper! Best penalty taker I ever saw for Thistle

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18 hours ago, Deboy said:

They may have been applied correctly, that doesn't mean they were fair.

However,  time to move on.

Yes - because the alternative would be Clubs who were due promotion lost out 

League Reconstruction was proposed and rejected by the Member Clubs - thats fair as its a Vote 

Then after that you apply the rules agreed by the Member Clubs - which is also fair 

I have No idea why the Club is playing up Victimhood - we were treated fairly within the Rules which we agreed to as a Member of the SPFL   

 

 

 

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