Dick Dastardly Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 hours ago, javeajag said: I think I’ll rest my case here We have it in writing ! Similar pledge from you WJ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Sticking up for Thistle, I'm afraid, does not mean blindly encouraging and willing on its custodians regardless of what they are doing. Sometimes it involves calling them out and questioning what they are doing. Picking fights with the SPFL or with other Clubs, regardless of how we might have been wronged, isn't automatically "sticking up for Thistle". If you think for one moment that Hearts would be with us in this legal challenge if they were in 11th place in the Premiership when the pandemic suspended the season then I have a bridge to sell you. And if/when "the judges" don't in fact come down on our side? What then. And what about Stranraer? They've stayed completely out of any court action or arbitration proceedings. They've, as it were, "taken their medicine". I'm sure we will survive. But again, let's not pretend that those who were "standing with us" were doing so for anything other than their own self-interest, or because they didn't feel like they had much if any skin in the game either way. Hearts would not now be in arbitration with us if they had finished 11th. Inverness and Falkirk very probably would not have voted against ending the season if they didn't think voting no would improve their own prospects of promotion under an alternative proposal. This isn't about justice, and it's just a bit nauseating that people are making out like it is. This ceased to be about justice the minute we went to court because someone else offered to pay an unspecified part of the bill. I disagree - in my opionion it is all about justice. The machinations of which forum the point is argued in and why , do not really concern me. The basic point is Thistle have been wronged and are taking steps to right that wrong ( as just about every other Club representative says they would do if in our position). In my opinion they are 100% justified in fighting this injustice. As for how their legal costs are met, this has absolutely no bearing on the legitimacy of our argument - in my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Picking fights with the SPFL or with other Clubs, regardless of how we might have been wronged, isn't automatically "sticking up for Thistle". Yes that’s what we did we picked a fight or as I would suggest we are trying to defend our interests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes that’s what we did we picked a fight or as I would suggest we are trying to defend our interests Absolutely correct although WJ’s solution to all of this is to do absolutely nothing , we’ve been wronged in the middle of a global pandemic and shafted by Doncaster and Maxwell, we should be proud that our Club is making a stand for fairness in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Absolutely correct although WJ’s solution to all of this is to do absolutely nothing , we’ve been wronged in the middle of a global pandemic and shafted by Doncaster and Maxwell, we should be proud that our Club is making a stand for fairness in all of this. 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: I'm not sure it counts as "covering your tracks" if you literally leave a marker saying why you edited the post. Stretching the definition of typo boyo - a more descriptive marker along the lines of a moment of grammatical paralysis serves me right for being an erse - would have sufficed. When's lunch break today youngster- would like to know so I can stick sewing needles in my eyeballs & pour vinegar into the holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: Stretching the definition of typo boyo - a more descriptive marker along the lines of a moment of grammatical paralysis serves me right for being an erse - would have sufficed. When's lunch break today youngster- would like to know so I can stick sewing needles in my eyeballs & pour vinegar into the holes. Haven't *you* got anything better to do than insult other Thistle fans on a football forum all day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Haven't *you* got anything better to do than insult other Thistle fans on a football forum all day? On my summer holidays boyo, so probably not. Tell you what, I'll get the popcorn out while you compile a list of Thistle fans from this forum whom I have offended with my heinous behaviour. Loved the passive aggressive use of asterisks btw. xoxo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 Back on topic... Anyone know when this bleedin' thing is gonna start / finish? The 'top' league is due to start on the 1st of August - 2 weeks tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said: Back on topic... Anyone know when this bleedin' thing is gonna start / finish? The 'top' league is due to start on the 1st of August - 2 weeks tomorrow. It was supposed to be this week but hasn’t happened ....haven’t seen anyone reporting a definite date yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 21 hours ago, gianlucatoni said: His clear inference after that was that it was spfl dragging their heels. You're welcome. Surprised there hasn't been more comment on this on the forum and in the media! If this is true and the SPFL have failed to make a full document disclosure in sufficient time to allow the Arbitration hearing to proceed as set would this not represent: 1. A breach of a court order, and 2. A failing of the Arbitration process. Therefore would Thistle and Hearts not be justified in returning to Court under the terms allowed for by Lord Clark. Also it would be true saying "both" parties are still preparing but only in the context that Thistle and Hearts can only complete their preparations once they receive full disclosure of documents. Seems SPFL are playing a dangerous game that may also impact on the SFA's charge announced on Wednesday. I have always considered that Judges of the standing of Lord Clark and others possess the attribute I would describe as wisdom! I think it's possible by sisting the court case and making provision for Thistle and Hearts to return to Court he deduced the nature and character of the SPFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Peebles Tackle Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Surprised there hasn't been more comment on this on the forum and in the media! If this is true and the SPFL have failed to make a full document disclosure in sufficient time to allow the Arbitration hearing to proceed as set would this not represent: 1. A breach of a court order, and 2. A failing of the Arbitration process. Therefore would Thistle and Hearts not be justified in returning to Court under the terms allowed for by Lord Clark. Also it would be true saying "both" parties are still preparing but only in the context that Thistle and Hearts can only complete their preparations once they receive full disclosure of documents. Seems SPFL are playing a dangerous game that may also impact on the SFA's charge announced on Wednesday. I have always considered that Judges of the standing of Lord Clark and others possess the attribute I would describe as wisdom! I think it's possible by sisting the court case and making provision for Thistle and Hearts to return to Court he deduced the nature and character of the SPFL. Seems a spot on summation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Surprised there hasn't been more comment on this on the forum and in the media! If this is true and the SPFL have failed to make a full document disclosure in sufficient time to allow the Arbitration hearing to proceed as set would this not represent: 1. A breach of a court order, and 2. A failing of the Arbitration process. Therefore would Thistle and Hearts not be justified in returning to Court under the terms allowed for by Lord Clark. Also it would be true saying "both" parties are still preparing but only in the context that Thistle and Hearts can only complete their preparations once they receive full disclosure of documents. Seems SPFL are playing a dangerous game that may also impact on the SFA's charge announced on Wednesday. I have always considered that Judges of the standing of Lord Clark and others possess the attribute I would describe as wisdom! I think it's possible by sisting the court case and making provision for Thistle and Hearts to return to Court he deduced the nature and character of the SPFL. How can you say such a thing .....the sfa and spfl are rules based organisations and do things by the book and ian Maxwell would never ever do anything otherwise .....you would think these highly confidential documents would be securely stored in a safe place making access to them fairly straightforward but no they are actually dispersed in multiple locations , some can’t be found but are rumoured to be on a server in Dundee and some apparently are going round and round on the Glasgow underground...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: How can you say such a thing .....the sfa and spfl are rules based organisations and do things by the book and ian Maxwell would never ever do anything otherwise .....you would think these highly confidential documents would be securely stored in a safe place making access to them fairly straightforward but no they are actually dispersed in multiple locations , some can’t be found but are rumoured to be on a server in Dundee and some apparently are going round and round on the Glasgow underground...... Which is why I can say such a thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: It was supposed to be this week but hasn’t happened ....haven’t seen anyone reporting a definite date yet Won't happen! Jacqui Low and Ann Budge will get an e-mail telling them that the tribunal panel met (in sectret) and came to a decision (in secret) and the status quo will prevail and not to tell anyone because it's all so secret and life will go on. And then we will all start singing "Down, down, deeper and down". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, scotty said: Won't happen! Jacqui Low and Ann Budge will get an e-mail telling them that the tribunal panel met (in sectret) and came to a decision (in secret) and the status quo will prevail and not to tell anyone because it's all so secret and life will go on. And then we will all start singing "Down, down, deeper and down". Very cynical........ and justifiably so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 I'm of the view that a democratic vote was an incredibly unfair way to end a season, as by definition (in a situation dominated by self-interest) it loads the suffering on to the smallest number of parties. I am also of the view that this was nevertheless the arrangement that was in place, and if it was done properly we probably didn't have too much grounds for complaint. However if my understanding is correct, our case doesn't really rest on the underlying unfairness of the process. It relies on things being done incorrectly. It's about what was happening in the background, what strings were being pulled, and the strange case of the Dundee vote. Therefore the more delay, the more suggestion that the SPFL/SFA are struggling to get their story in order, the more desperate they seem, the more optimistic I get. However if I've learned anything in watching Thistle for 35 years it's that I shouldn't get too optimistic, as it inevitably leads to a fall. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 46 minutes ago, javeajag said: How can you say such a thing .....the sfa and spfl are rules based organisations and do things by the book and ian Maxwell would never ever do anything otherwise .....you would think these highly confidential documents would be securely stored in a safe place making access to them fairly straightforward but no they are actually dispersed in multiple locations , some can’t be found but are rumoured to be on a server in Dundee and some apparently are going round and round on the Glasgow underground...... I know you are saying this tongue in cheek but I suspect you are pretty near the truth. It seems clear that as an organisation they are a shambles; No one taking overall responsibility; constanty referring to "the rules" rather than taking a pragmatic approach to issues; basically a blame culture. It would not surprise me at all to hear they have "lost"; "misplaced" ;"deleted" some of the documents requested. Rod: " I sent it to you Neil- what have you done with it? " Neil:" I asked Jenny to copy it then forward it to Maxi" Maxi "I never got a copy" All " Its Jenny's fault - we need an enquiry" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 Dodgy pockets on these blazers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, allyo said: Dodgy pockets on these blazers Dodgy blazers in each others' pockets. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Emsca said: I know you are saying this tongue in cheek but I suspect you are pretty near the truth. It seems clear that as an organisation they are a shambles; No one taking overall responsibility; constanty referring to "the rules" rather than taking a pragmatic approach to issues; basically a blame culture. It would not surprise me at all to hear they have "lost"; "misplaced" ;"deleted" some of the documents requested. Rod: " I sent it to you Neil- what have you done with it? " Neil:" I asked Jenny to copy it then forward it to Maxi" Maxi "I never got a copy" All " Its Jenny's fault - we need an enquiry" Yep.....the emails are documents are in the same office ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Emsca said: I know you are saying this tongue in cheek but I suspect you are pretty near the truth. It seems clear that as an organisation they are a shambles; No one taking overall responsibility; constanty referring to "the rules" rather than taking a pragmatic approach to issues; basically a blame culture. It would not surprise me at all to hear they have "lost"; "misplaced" ;"deleted" some of the documents requested. Rod: " I sent it to you Neil- what have you done with it? " Neil:" I asked Jenny to copy it then forward it to Maxi" Maxi "I never got a copy" All " Its Jenny's fault - we need an enquiry" Think it would be naive to think there isn’t a reason for the reluctance to hand documents over , nothing to do with commercial sensitivity as there should be transparency there already with its members unless......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, allyo said: I'm of the view that a democratic vote was an incredibly unfair way to end a season, as by definition (in a situation dominated by self-interest) it loads the suffering on to the smallest number of parties. I am also of the view that this was nevertheless the arrangement that was in place, and if it was done properly we probably didn't have too much grounds for complaint. However if my understanding is correct, our case doesn't really rest on the underlying unfairness of the process. It relies on things being done incorrectly. It's about what was happening in the background, what strings were being pulled, and the strange case of the Dundee vote. Therefore the more delay, the more suggestion that the SPFL/SFA are struggling to get their story in order, the more desperate they seem, the more optimistic I get. However if I've learned anything in watching Thistle for 35 years it's that I shouldn't get too optimistic, as it inevitably leads to a fall. We'll see. The Dundee vote scenario was just a cover up to save face as the letter to UEFA had already been sent by Maxwell and Doncaster to call the Leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 The delay could also be down to witness statements throwing up leads to documents / calls/ WhatsApps/ promises of glamour friendlies etc that were not initially forwarded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: The Dundee vote scenario was just a cover up to save face as the letter to UEFA had already been sent by Maxwell and Doncaster to call the Leagues. That's the kind of stuff that I think could be in our favour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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