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Return to Stadiums in September


Anniesland Jag
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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

With new restrictions expected by the end of this week, i don't see fans being allowed into grounds before next year. I think this may have some clubs re considering if they will be able to get through the season and they may decide to 'mothball' for 20/21.

We will be in big trouble if season is mothballed.  Quite a big squad already in place compared to fellow League 1 teams at the present moment.  

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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

With new restrictions expected by the end of this week, i don't see fans being allowed into grounds before next year. I think this may have some clubs re considering if they will be able to get through the season and they may decide to 'mothball' for 20/21.

There is no scientific data that drives a decision to bring in more restrictions 

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19 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

The way the Scottish and Westminster  governments  are talking, they will happen by the end of this week.

Today’s “scientific” press conference from Westminster was a disgrace with a doomsday graph made on assumptions and actually at odds with France and Spain data which hasn’t doubled every 7 days and is actually leveling again

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Was so impressed with the precautions taken on Saturday at Firhill.  Other than the players there is zero risk of infection being transmitted at the stadium.  It must be possible to add in a decent number of fans in the same safe manner to get us going again.  We have to start trying to get back to some sort of normal and with the precautions taken for me football looks a pretty safe environment. 

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34 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Today’s “scientific” press conference from Westminster was a disgrace with a doomsday graph made on assumptions and actually at odds with France and Spain data which hasn’t doubled every 7 days and is actually leveling again

They also started the graph in June or July so that current situation looked much worse when not compared with March/April. Unfortunately we will have to put up with lots of this nonsense for next week or so in lead up to the vote to extend emergency powers. There are starting to be some dissenting voices including some influentual members of Conservative party. Sadly still no sign of any sort of opposition party in Scotland.

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41 minutes ago, michael m said:

Was so impressed with the precautions taken on Saturday at Firhill.  Other than the players there is zero risk of infection being transmitted at the stadium.  It must be possible to add in a decent number of fans in the same safe manner to get us going again.  We have to start trying to get back to some sort of normal and with the precautions taken for me football looks a pretty safe environment. 

I guess the problem could be if the number permitted doesn't exceed considerably the number of ST holders. In other words no or little incremental income (effectively pay at the gate). I assume stewarding costs will be relatively high into the bargain.

Perhaps as a stepping stone towards a gradual return to normal, restricted attendances would be a worthwhile venture. It's just with no (or very little) light at the end of the tunnel it could mean the Club losing more money. 

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The presentation from Whitty and Valance yesterday smacked of scientific advisors that were frustrated by the Governments approach. Their frustration is I believe stemming from the absolute shambles of NHS England's test and trace. Not only is it not effectively tracing people and allowing them to inhibit the virus spread its also not providing the detail on virus spread to accurately understand the true picture. They may have over egged their presentation by putting some unrealistic extrapolations on it but they were really saying something meaningful has to change in what we allow to open as we don't have the same test and trace ablity of France, Spain etc.

Instead its looks like Boris will put a 10pm curfew on pubs and restaurants. There is no science to that approach. The actual action required from the UK government is to extend furlough until at least March, close pubs and restaurants, tell people to work from home and hopefully they can keep the schools, uni's and other businesses open. Pubs and resteraurants aren't the main reasons for the spread but they are non-essential.

I believe Nicola has held back her annoucement because she needs furlough extended then she has the ability to close the parts of the economy deemed neceesary. It will be interesting to see what she does/can do if furlough is not extended and no financial assistance is made available.

I don't think any of that means football stops unless infections rise in the players or players flout the rules however crowds back at football before March of next year looks difficult. Best case might be crowds of 10% of capacity which for most teams makes crowds unaffordable. Just as well our AI stream was so successful against BSC!

 

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12 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

First club (In Wales) now asking not to play

 

https://www.merthyrtownfc.co.uk/news/boardstatement210920/

Why do I get a certain sense of deja vu?  Merthyr Town are unusual in playing their football in a different jurisdiction to where they are. (England and Wales). Different rules. They (and as far as I can see) Guernsey have been given dispensation by their league to mothball and not be punished.  They have crowds of 150 - 520, so I presume their players are part time.  They have released all of their players, but retained their manager.

Its a bit  different in Scotland.  The SPFL imposed a penalty of relegation for mothballed clubs (although it will be interesting to see how they choose where a number of clubs decide to go into suspended animation). As mentioned previously, I believe that this was a result of our court action, but that has now gone. But we still do have the horrible SPFL voting structure, so lets use that to our advantage.  When the siren calls come out from Cumbernauld, Coatbridge and Cowdenbeath, lets ensure that the clubs in League 1 & 2 with most to lose, the full time clubs, vote down any request to mothball.  We have ourselves, Falkirk, Cove and Queens Park who will hopefully all vote yes.  Hopefully East Fife will be on board. Part time clubs don't have so much to lose, as their players usually have another source of income.  Full time players don't, so I hope that the players union will speak out more forcibly  this time, at players and other club staff losing their sole means of living.  But use the voting system against the glorified social clubs, and let play commence.

Although Sturgeon is talking about a "Zoom Christmas", I will be disappointed if complete sanctions last that long.  As Norgethistle mentioned, second peaks across other countries has not been as serious as the first, presumably because lessons have been learned, and better clinical practices are in place.  The USA and Brazil have been notable exceptions, but then there is poor leadership in those countries.  The problem here is in having  a "world beating" track and trace system, but  "world beatingly" poor, and mixed messages diluting the need to beat the virus first.

Clubs like Thistle can have crowds back in reasonable numbers safely, and the way Thistle has maximised sponsor income is excellent.  We do have a reputation for being a well run club, but please do not take that as any support for current incumbents!

The job losses if a careful return of fans doesn't happen is depressing, and both the UK and Scottish governments will not want the death of football on their hands, and in view of an impending election, I think that perhaps applies more so to the Scottish government.  I'm not forgetting the need for peoples lives first, but I for one, won't forget.   It will take me up to four more years to exercise my democratic right,  but I do have a good memory.

I also wonder why it is football players are on a "yellow card" for breaching Covid regs, but nothing is done or much said about rugby players doing a similar thing? Dual standards.

If we have learned from the first peak, hopefully my deja vu won't become a Groundhog Day...

 

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@laukat our Test & Protect is not working properly.  My wife is involved in it.

1. There are 2 systems set up effectively due to a bit of an internal turf war in NHS Scotland.

2. They started to wind it down as infection rates were so low so playing catch up.

3. They are still recruiting after a bun fight over employees being marked as band 2 or band 4.

4. Private management consultants have been brought in. Shock horror.

5. The call flow is not working. People in are sitting around doing nothing as its not getting to them. 

It's not in a good place.

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1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

@laukat our Test & Protect is not working properly.  My wife is involved in it.

1. There are 2 systems set up effectively due to a bit of an internal turf war in NHS Scotland.

2. They started to wind it down as infection rates were so low so playing catch up.

3. They are still recruiting after a bun fight over employees being marked as band 2 or band 4.

4. Private management consultants have been brought in. Shock horror.

5. The call flow is not working. People in are sitting around doing nothing as its not getting to them. 

It's not in a good place.

Just for balance a good friend of ours works in the system and whilst not surprisingly they are a lot busier now your description is not one she conveys .....and she’s enjoying it 

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35 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

laukat our Test & Protect is not working properly.  My wife is involved in it.

1. There are 2 systems set up effectively due to a bit of an internal turf war in NHS Scotland.

2. They started to wind it down as infection rates were so low so playing catch up.

3. They are still recruiting after a bun fight over employees being marked as band 2 or band 4.

4. Private management consultants have been brought in. Shock horror.

5. The call flow is not working. People in are sitting around doing nothing as its not getting to them. 

It's not in a good place.

I'll not say what my job is but I know our test and trace system very well and I know whats happening in England.

 On the plus side the results feeds which starts the test and trace process is much more integrated in Scotland. All lab results from NHS Scotland labs feed back to a central view so it is at least possible in Scotland to get a reliable view of virus spread in as realtime as you can reasonably expect. In general testing capcity in Scotland has been sufficient at the moment and there are no restrictions on who can get a test. Care home testing is routine in Scotland as well so generally Scotland has got the testing part working well.

The Scottish one has suffered with delay on development of the call handling system for tracers need to contact people. Delivery of those systems on the date expected was overly ambitous. Thats led to a lot of those test trace staff having to fall back on local board systems to get moving creating problems in training staff as no-one knew what to train them on.  So contact tracing still has some room for improvement but is rapidly improving and the difference in the last 2 weeks alone is night and day. On top of that Scotland has the mobile app and that brings a degree of self trace facilities.

NHS England has lots of problems. They don't have the testing capacity so are now prioritising tests. They don't have a really accurate central picture of infections so realtime response and action is impacted. Their tracing capability is unknown as until they test the volume required they won't know if they can trace the true volume of positive tests. Its not clear that they are routinely testing in care homes. The uptake on their mobile app has been badly hampered by the belief its retaining data for non-covid purposes.

So my early comments about Whitty and Valance's frustration about NHS England's test and trace capability was not to say Scotland's is perfect as its not but more that NHS England's one is almost non-existant. Scotland's system is similar to Wales and in turn you are seen more targeted measures in response.

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

I don’t believe a word either UK or Scottish Governments say anymore. 

This is from our leader today:

Nicola Sturgeon has urged Scottish families to not book holidays abroad during the October school holidays.

In her address to the Scottish parliament, the first minister said Scottish families should treat the autumn term holiday as an opportunity to limit social contact with others.

And she told MSPs proposals for a temporary "circuit break" lockdown over the school break were under review.

That was a policy suggested by the UK government to interrupt virus spread.

The idea is that a short, sharp period of tightened restrictions for everyone could curb the spread of coronavirus.

However, Ms Sturgeon said: "The Scottish government has not made any decision at this stage to implement such a policy - however, we are actively keeping it under review."

This document leaked yesterday allegedly from a civil servant suggesting they are planning to shut down country for October school holiday: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiYZYR4WkAEcGc0?format=jpg&name=900×900

She refused to comment when asked if it was accurate. Let's see what happens.

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