Jump to content

Return to Stadiums in September


Anniesland Jag
 Share

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

How many have symptoms or are false positives or old trace?

Positive tests aren’t a pandemic (by definition in WHO) symptoms, illness and death are

We have just announced that effectively grandparents cannot see their families in their own house for 6 more months. 
 

Cancer screening cancelled again, fear installed and mental health issues rising.

1. You don’t know how many false positives there are

2. the WHO state a 5% testing positive rate is a pandemic the U.K. is at that level but you  know better 

3. the English govt  might have said six months Scotland has explicitly not said six months 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Most of Europe doesn’t so what’s your point?

Just by the reasoning currently I can’t be in my parents house, just the 3 of us.

I can though drive to theirs, meet them outside, walk together to the bus stop get a public bus to Asda with strangers, take my mums arm walk through the supermarket with more strangers, go to the cafe, be served by strangers then get the filthy bus home to theirs before I leave them at the garden. 
 

You think that is reasoned and sensible?

My point is

  • that the virus is at different stages across the world and dealing with it is not an exact science. Comparing what one country does to another is achieves very little
  • that the numbers are increasing in most places, so something needs to be done before we end up in a second lockdown like Israel
  • that this is not a Scottish/UK government conspiracy. This is a very real problem

As for the specific case you mention, I'm sure that was not the intention, but an anomaly caused by the various restrictions acting together to create the scenario you present.

One thing I am sure of is that neither Boris, nor Nicola want to be restricting their populations if they can avoid it. It is not a vote winner. I live in England, so don't know enough about Nicola, however Boris likes the tub-thumping photo opportunity to highlight how great things are. His forte is presenting good news. He does not want to be involved in any national disaster or to be dealing with bad news, so I would suggest that he would not be doing it if there was any alternative.

As for the latest restrictions, I think that they do make some sense. The latest flare up came after opening up the education and hospitality sectors. Therefore pulling back on them is the obvious reaction and personally speaking, I would rather that our kids get their education 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, sandbank boy said:

So, approximately 0.014% of the population, worldwide.

Except the whole world hasn’t had it so a useless number literally useless 

to be helpful the fatality rate is currently estimated to be around 0.4% but higher with the over 70s

so about 20000 people in Scotland should die so some people can go to the pub 

Edited by javeajag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, laukat said:

What Scotland is trying to do is keep education and NHS services running as near normal as possible over the period between Now and March. It doesn't get much attention in the media but the mix in rise of covid and the approaching flu season is whats really scaring the Scottish Government and the UK government medical advisors. So the moves to implement restrictions are solely about restricting the spread of covid through the population its also to stop the spread of flu/colds.

Since the schools went back the rise in covid test requests are in part because kids are picking up illnesses and flu's that they weren't exposed to but which give them symptons similar to covid. So actually a symptomatic person getting a negative test actually indicates a cold or flu. Banning households meeting starts to make sense if you think about how the kids get a cold/flu and bring it back home rather tha only thinking about covid.

If the furlough scheme was extended I would have expected the Scottish Government to close restaurants and bars as they can see that would like to stop any mixing of the population outside of schools and essential services so they can keep them running over the winter. The fact that we can't make public health decisions that could save lifes because we don't have the power to make a financial decision is bizarre.

You can expect to see quite a visible and aggressive flu vacination programme appearing shortly. This is again to maximise available beds in acute settings. The health service could probably cope with one or other on its own but both together could easily get overwhelmed. As far as I understand it is entirely possible to have both covid and flu at the same time or back to back and I can't imagine the odds of survival are high so its possible that the second wave coming near flu season will be more deadly than the first.

The fact that postive tests are picking up but hospital admissions and deaths are not is more to do with the age of the people being infected. At this moment its mainly younger people (i.e. school kids, teachers, essential workers) shortly these people will infect the older generation unless people stop mixing and that is when Hospital admissions and Deaths will start to climb. Quite how bad it will be is impossible to know as the wave early this year did not have the same potential mix of seasonal flu mixed with it and you would hope a few lessons have been learnt so infection rates and death rates from the first wave should not be used as an estimate for the next wave.

Regarding Mental Health. Lockdown was and is terrible for those that have poor mental health and hard enough for those that have good mental health. One of the main contributors to that scenario was also being couped up with the kids and not being able to keep them occupied. So to a certain degree trying to keep the schools open is also an effort to minise the damage to mental health.

I suspect that they will also try to keep football games on tv but behind closed doors as they have recognised that watching football helps with Mental Health. I suspect the same will be true for other sports and in general the Scottish Government will be keen people still play sport. How clubs survive on tha income is unknown and if the furlough scheme comes back I can see alll leagues bar the premier league being postponed as clubs furlough to reduce costs.

And just to add research now showing COVID and seasonal flu will be more deadly than both 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Restrict houses to 2 families only with maximum 8 people. Then families can meet, parents can see their adult kids, and grandparents can see the grandkids.

This is how Scandinavia has done it, the number of visitors rises and falls but your always allowed to see at least 2.

My parents are 79, not seen me or my daughter since February, didn’t see the other 2 grandchildren for months now with prospect of not seeing them, except from the end of the garden for more months now.

My Dads passions are the family, his football, pottering around garden centers at his leisure  and meeting his brother for a couple (and it is a couple) of pints on a Friday. He can’t do any of these now, to go to a pub, he needs to mask up to get on a bus to hopefully get a table in the pub, garden centers are no longer leisurely, he states your herded through like a sheep through a pen, stop too long and people complain and god forbid you go against the arrows, Firhill isn’t open, and family can’t visit. I’ve never heard him so depressed, my Mums just as bad. To be effectively removed from your loves in life is causing massive damage not only to folk like my parents but youngsters as well. 

The basic human rights are gone, and these restrictions actually contradict Article 8 of European Convention on Human Rights but no one bats an eye as a big graph appears on screen with loads of red.

 

Strange COVID resurgence this week when last week BoJo was under pressure for threatening to break international law and Sturgeon under pressure based on her husband pressuring police to pursue Salmond. 

That is literally drivel ....what’s the explanation for the increase in COVID in Spain , France ? Belgium .... maybe it’s down to tintin 

or maybe COVID doesn’t exist 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

There needs to be support for the business community be that in Hospitality or even Football Clubs as an example , IMO it’s morally wrong to inflict these restrictions without actually backing it up with help financially, other countries continue to support businesses whether that’s been an extension of the furlough scheme in Germany for example .

Jason Leitch was asked to back up his stats re Hospitality last night , he couldn’t 

The Hospitality sector has become a convenient scapegoat even though the majority are being stringent in how they are adapting, everyone knew when schools and universities returned there would be an upsurge in cases and spread.

Business has been the fall guy yet again with little thought to the business owners and their employees.

That will explain why Marseille has just shut bars and restaurants 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Except the whole world hasn’t had it so a useless number literally useless 

to be helpful the fatality rate is currently estimated to be around 0.4% but higher with the over 70s

so about 200,000 people in Scotland should die so done people can go to the pub 

20,000. If the 0.4% proves accurate.  Or 10 thistle fans based on 2500 fan base. 

Edited by dl1971
Grammar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chancellor's annoucement doesn't sound like its going to help football clubs much. To get any assistance means the employees need to work and probably therefore have to play football games without crowds. I don't see how football clubs can operate if they have 2/3's of the cost but only a fraction of the income.

Can't see how any team can afford to play or retain its staff. Suspending the league is no longer enough to make this work. I suspect we are looking at clubs going into adminstration so they can end player contracts and then mothball until crowds can come back.

Same problem exists for restaurants and bars and any other business that can't open or can only do restricted trade. To get help you have to open and take on a lot of the cost but with a fraction of the income.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I

Did the Chancellor not say the Gov will cover two thirds of salary, with employers covering one third?

Still financially difficult for clubs, even if streaming is taken up by many fans.

Correction  Laukat is correct. Gov will only pay one third.  Doesn't really help football  clubs .

Edited by East Kent Jag II
Correction
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, laukat said:

The chancellor's annoucement doesn't sound like its going to help football clubs much. To get any assistance means the employees need to work and probably therefore have to play football games without crowds. I don't see how football clubs can operate if they have 2/3's of the cost but only a fraction of the income.

Can't see how any team can afford to play or retain its staff. Suspending the league is no longer enough to make this work. I suspect we are looking at clubs going into adminstration so they can end player contracts and then mothball until crowds can come back.

Same problem exists for restaurants and bars and any other business that can't open or can only do restricted trade. To get help you have to open and take on a lot of the cost but with a fraction of the income.

If the players were to go onto 1/3rd of normal hours (partial training) would the government now pick up the other 2/3 of the wages ? We do have some income from sponsorship etc, so it may be viable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

If the players were to go onto 1/3rd of normal hours (partial training) would the government now pick up the other 2/3 of the wages ? We do have some income from sponsorship etc, so it may be viable.

Doesn't work quite how I thought.

If an employee works reduced hours the employer pays for that. And in addition, the employer and government pay one-third of the lost pay each (up to the cap).

So for someone on £2,000 a month working half their hours, they’d get £1,000 normal pay plus £333 extra from their employer and £333 from the government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

That will explain why Marseille has just shut bars and restaurants 

Can you really choose like for like at this moment?

Why didn’t you choose New Zealand as an example 

Why didn’t you choose a country that is trying to protect its business infrastructure 

Why not just close the schools and Universities where the spread is coming from .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Can you really choose like for like at this moment?

Why didn’t you choose New Zealand as an example 

Why didn’t you choose a country that is trying to protect its business infrastructure 

Why not just close the schools and Universities where the spread is coming from .

Basically it was one or the other, and government in both London and Edinburgh (also Cardiff and Belfast) chose to protect education at the expense of hospitality. There was no easy answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Can you really choose like for like at this moment?

Why didn’t you choose New Zealand as an example 

Why didn’t you choose a country that is trying to protect its business infrastructure 

Why not just close the schools and Universities where the spread is coming from .

The context is important as it was referring to lockdowns not happening .... new restrictions are coming in in loads if places

do you think an island 4 hours by plane from anywhere else is a relevant comparator to Scotland mmmm

the balance is a tough one but how many people are ok to die in your view ?

the spread is coming from people being indoors eg like pubs anyone at esquire house last Friday would see why 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My concern is with the body running our leagues. Although we have been told otherwise I feel that they are only interested in the top league any money in form of grants etc would be used to make sure the premier League was kept going and if the lower leagues cannot start or even once again be cancelled that would not bother them.Some teams in the top League have spent millions on players and others have had big transfers out,yet they still got the same amount of the Anderson grant as teams that may not be able to complete a season if most of the season has to be behind closed doors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The context is important as it was referring to lockdowns not happening .... new restrictions are coming in in loads if places

do you think an island 4 hours by plane from anywhere else is a relevant comparator to Scotland mmmm

the balance is a tough one but how many people are ok to die in your view ?

the spread is coming from people being indoors eg like pubs anyone at esquire house last Friday would see why 

 

There will undoubtedly be more people in Scotland die of lack of Cancer treatment, mental health issues , heart attacks and strokes .

Back up your claims, there is less than 5% spread in Hospitality because the majority of Hospitality is a controlled environment, close Hospitality at 10  then you’re driving the problem underground.

Do you really think young people are going to bed at 10.30 ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Doesn't work quite how I thought.

If an employee works reduced hours the employer pays for that. And in addition, the employer and government pay one-third of the lost pay each (up to the cap).

So for someone on £2,000 a month working half their hours, they’d get £1,000 normal pay plus £333 extra from their employer and £333 from the government.

I believe the UK Governement scheme is also capped at £697 per month using the example in @Dick Dastardly comment the employee will only get the maximum £697 payment and their actual income will not be £1666 it'll be £1507.25.

No idea what we pay our players and staff but £500 per week or £2000 month seems not a decent guess at what our average maybe. If the cap is confirmed to get the full government percentage and get to the maximum of percentage of wages means you need to earn no more than about £1200 per month to start with. However in general for employess this scheme in theory means they get most of their pay for less hours worked assuming the business they are employed by can still operate.

The key problem for thistle and every football club is they play games they need still need to pay 66% of wages on an income that is nowhere near that. Furlough allowed the club to mothball as the wages would in part be paid by the government rather than the club. If you have little income but most of the costs how do you survive without shedding the cost?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

There will undoubtedly be more people in Scotland die of lack of Cancer treatment, mental health issues , heart attacks and strokes .

Back up your claims, there is less than 5% spread in Hospitality because the majority of Hospitality is a controlled environment, close Hospitality at 10  then you’re driving the problem underground.

Do you really think young people are going to bed at 10.30 ?

None of these diseases are viral which is an important distinction so it’s a comparison that works.

Bars have been identified in the US as the number one most likely place to catch the virus 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

None of these diseases are viral which is an important distinction so it’s a comparison that works.

Bars have been identified in the US as the number one most likely place to catch the virus 

 

For Goodness sake , are we really taking our lead from the US , the stats say there is less than 5% transmission in Hospitality in Scotland 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nigel Huddlestone, UK sports minister has stated in the House of Commons that UK sports Premier clubs are "on their own" and are expected to get their own way out of the Covid crisis. The FA were looking for £500 million  to get them through.  Lower league clubs may be given financial help.

No doubt some similar  message will be given to the SPFL, if any funding is given in Scotland. I have my doubts that any cash will be forthcoming. The future of quite a few Scottish clubs is now very bleak. 

Edited by East Kent Jag II
Correction to Premier league clubs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...