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Thistle v Peterhead 19/12/2020


East Kent Jag II
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Doolan was finished 2 years ago. He has failed to hold a starting place at Ayr, Morton or Arbroath and is not the player that those with rose tinted glasses remember.

No idea what Buckie has been doing, but I hope that there are better out there. I've not yet written off Samim Kouidar-Aissa, but won't be holding my breath on Rudden being a goal scoring machine. 

Edit : On Boxing Day, it will be exactly 1 year since Rudden last scored for a first team (Cheltenham 0 Plymouth 1)

Edited by Dick Dastardly
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34 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Doolan was finished 2 years ago. He has failed to hold a starting place at Ayr, Morton or Arbroath and is not the player that those with rose tinted glasses remember.

No idea what Buckie has been doing, but I hope that there are better out there. I've not yet written off Samim Kouidar-Aissa, but won't be holding my breath on Rudden being a goal scoring machine. 

Edit : On Boxing Day, it will be exactly 1 year since Rudden last scored for a first team (Cheltenham 0 Plymouth 1)

When is Salim due back? I know he initially picked up a broken nose against Clyde, but would that still keep him out?(it might well do as I’m not any medical expert), but just wondering if he had picked up another injury since then 

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Some interesting comments over the last few posts.

Comparing our current situation with the last time we were in this league under Dick Campbell I think tells some stories. Under DC we were lucky to make the playoffs, played some really horrible depressing football, had a squad that with the exception of Mark Roberts was full of players who were either long past it or who were at best championship/ league 1 players. Dick Campbell was meant to be the experienced man able to build a team to get us out of league 1 and challenging in the championship. To a certain degree there is a parallel there with McCall. However for me the key difference is in recruitment and the age of players both signed. DC tended to go for experience IM tends to go for youth.

Under DC we got lucky to get out of the division but even then we still required a complete squad rebuild which only really started when IM took over in his first spell.

This time around in league 1 our budget is as big or bigger than the only other fulltime team. We have probably the most capable manager in the league in charge so anything less than promotion would be a dissapointment. However 2 factors may go against us. First of all having no spectators takes away an adavantage that may make a difference in games like Dumbarton at home where we just needed one goal. Second of all a shorter season makes it harder to gel a new team with a lot of youth in it. If this was a 36 games season I would feel fairly comfortable right now.

If IM gets us promoted given the average age of the squad is quite low we are probably not needing a rebuild in the Championship just some quality added.

Assuming Rudden and Graham stay fit I don't think its a striker we aboslutely need in January although adding another option would be good just for cover. To me we have not replaced the direct running of Erskine. We still rely on width too much as our ownly attacking option and need some who can run with the ball at pace in central areas.

Last comment. If we did decide to get rid of IM assuming Britton and Low are still around how well do you think that selection is going to go? To me if IM goes GB and Jlow need to go and someone else needs to select the next manager.

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6 minutes ago, laukat said:

Some interesting comments over the last few posts.

Comparing our current situation with the last time we were in this league under Dick Campbell I think tells some stories. Under DC we were lucky to make the playoffs, played some really horrible depressing football, had a squad that with the exception of Mark Roberts was full of players who were either long past it or who were at best championship/ league 1 players. Dick Campbell was meant to be the experienced man able to build a team to get us out of league 1 and challenging in the championship. To a certain degree there is a parallel there with McCall. However for me the key difference is in recruitment and the age of players both signed. DC tended to go for experience IM tends to go for youth.

Under DC we got lucky to get out of the division but even then we still required a complete squad rebuild which only really started when IM took over in his first spell.

This time around in league 1 our budget is as big or bigger than the only other fulltime team. We have probably the most capable manager in the league in charge so anything less than promotion would be a dissapointment. However 2 factors may go against us. First of all having no spectators takes away an adavantage that may make a difference in games like Dumbarton at home where we just needed one goal. Second of all a shorter season makes it harder to gel a new team with a lot of youth in it. If this was a 36 games season I would feel fairly comfortable right now.

If IM gets us promoted given the average age of the squad is quite low we are probably not needing a rebuild in the Championship just some quality added.

Assuming Rudden and Graham stay fit I don't think its a striker we aboslutely need in January although adding another option would be good just for cover. To me we have not replaced the direct running of Erskine. We still rely on width too much as our ownly attacking option and need some who can run with the ball at pace in central areas.

Last comment. If we did decide to get rid of IM assuming Britton and Low are still around how well do you think that selection is going to go? To me if IM goes GB and Jlow need to go and someone else needs to select the next manager.

Good points which I mostly agree with but I still think we need another striker regardless. Graham is not a prolific goal scorer and Rudden has played 4 or 5 games in a year.  He might well stay fit this time, as might Salim but we simply cannot take the chance. What happens if we get to February and they both take knocks and are out for a long time again.  I know a striker will cost us but financially failure to get out of this league would cost so much more

i would also add in that it’s clear Rudden and Salim can score goals in the lower leagues when fit, but it’s not entirely clear they can for us. At times we really seem to be an exception to other teams in that we sign what potentially look brilliant players but do not work out at all at Firhill.  But my main concern would primarily be how little both have played thus far at Firhill, Rudden in particular 

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3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

We can't go on the way we are, drifting to mid-table mediocrity and just hoping we get to a play-off and a bit of luck when we get there. The players we have are better than the team performances we are getting. I agree with GRE that there are issues in the boardroom, but that is only going to change to fan ownership. There is nothing we can do about that, so I would say that the manager is the obvious answer. He is the one that sets the formation, selects the players, gives out the instructions and organizes the training and these are where it is going horribly wrong.  

I will admit that there is no guarantee of success, but it has to be a better option than doing nothing.

I think I agree. But the point I was trying to make was that getting rid of the manager was the suggested solution to our problems. We have had 3 managers in just over 3 years I think. So there maybe needs to be a different solution. It’s maybe also worth noting that our most recent stability coincided with a stable mgt team. Not suggesting we should have kept Archie, his time was at an end.

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21 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

I can see our programme for this season being abandoned with what is now occurring in relation to the pandemic.  What the SPFL decides what form the Leagues take next season is anyone's guess. A distinct possibility of there being less clubs left to participate. 

Has this been hinted at? Incidentally with the championship teams now getting £500,000 each from the taxpayer I can see a lot more of them being around than potentially otherwise would have been 

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4 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Has this been hinted at? Incidentally with the championship teams now getting £500,000 each from the taxpayer I can see a lot more of them being around than potentially otherwise would have been 

Teams in the Championship are losing a fortune from gate money this season. Take Dunfermline, in all likelihood losing 6 home games against Hearts / Dundee / Raith Rovers that could easily have drawn 50k fans in total. £500k sounds a fair sum but a drop in the ocean over a season.

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7 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Rightly or wrongly I can only see McCall being sacked when we mathematically fail to qualify for promotion or we make the playoffs and are put out.

im not saying that’s the right thing to do (some make a good case for why it should happen a lot sooner) but I think it’s what the club will do

changing the subject but there’s some who keep saying on social media particularly that Kris Doolan is the answer to our goal scoring problems in January. I don’t and I’m not sure either are but can I ask any on here genuinely why Doolan would be better than Liam Buchanan on a short term deal - and I’m not saying he is the answer either but I’ve heard Doolan mentioned so many times, yet from what I can see Buchanan has a far better record the last couple of years in the championship than Doolan and going by the logic that but Doolan would score for fun in league one? Would that not apply equally or even more so to Buchanan?  Like I say not convinced either will be signed anyway

I never thought i would say it, but i also don't think Doolan is the answer. For whatever reason his goal scoring form has just fallen of a cliff over the past couple of seasons.

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6 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Good points which I mostly agree with but I still think we need another striker regardless. Graham is not a prolific goal scorer and Rudden has played 4 or 5 games in a year.  He might well stay fit this time, as might Salim but we simply cannot take the chance. What happens if we get to February and they both take knocks and are out for a long time again.  I know a striker will cost us but financially failure to get out of this league would cost so much more

i would also add in that it’s clear Rudden and Salim can score goals in the lower leagues when fit, but it’s not entirely clear they can for us. At times we really seem to be an exception to other teams in that we sign what potentially look brilliant players but do not work out at all at Firhill.  But my main concern would primarily be how little both have played thus far at Firhill, Rudden in particular 

Agree that a backup striker is needed. I would prefer that to be a young fast amibitious striker even its someone we may not have heard of and possibly a loanee from a SPL club. That to my mind rules out a return for Doolan or an experienced player.

I think a higher priority to increase our goalscoring threat would be to get better options than Murray and Cardle. Lyons is the closest we have to have a direct running attacking threat but he has a lot to learn.

Creating space in the squad to bring in a striker and possibly 2 wide/creative players probably means getting rid of most of our current loanees as I can't see how we move on any of the permanent contracts in the current climate even though Gordon and Reilly could probably do with a change in club to get a starting spot. 

Since the emergence of Sena as centre half Breen looks less likely to play. Kouder-Aissa has struggled on the limited game time he has had but never looked like a pacey striker more a penalty box striker.  Spittal has done ok but I don't think he's what we need.

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23 minutes ago, laukat said:

Agree that a backup striker is needed. I would prefer that to be a young fast amibitious striker even its someone we may not have heard of and possibly a loanee from a SPL club. That to my mind rules out a return for Doolan or an experienced player.

I think a higher priority to increase our goalscoring threat would be to get better options than Murray and Cardle. Lyons is the closest we have to have a direct running attacking threat but he has a lot to learn.

Creating space in the squad to bring in a striker and possibly 2 wide/creative players probably means getting rid of most of our current loanees as I can't see how we move on any of the permanent contracts in the current climate even though Gordon and Reilly could probably do with a change in club to get a starting spot. 

Since the emergence of Sena as centre half Breen looks less likely to play. Kouder-Aissa has struggled on the limited game time he has had but never looked like a pacey striker more a penalty box striker.  Spittal has done ok but I don't think he's what we need.

A penalty box striker is exactly what we need. We need someone with intuitive instinct to move into space. Graham is old, tired, slow, grumpy, has a suspect temperament and is finished. I really don’t like strikers that don’t score. I thought Rudden looked slightly slimmer than last year and if the Livi guy scores goals at this level, get him playing!

McGlashan was no footballer but he knew where the goal was. Trigger was another instinctive striker. How we need someone like that. 

 

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2 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

A penalty box striker is exactly what we need. We need someone with intuitive instinct to move into space. Graham is old, tired, slow, grumpy, has a suspect temperament and is finished. I really don’t like strikers that don’t score. I thought Rudden looked slightly slimmer than last year and if the Livi guy scores goals at this level, get him playing!

McGlashan was no footballer but he knew where the goal was. Trigger was another instinctive striker. How we need someone like that. 

McGlashan and Trigger were way more than just penalty box strikers.

Trigger was big enough and physically string enough to battle in the air and had a decent touch as well as a decent finish. Remember seeing him play for ICT against us at Firhill and thought he looked a real player. Was even more surprised when ICT sold him to us. If he had a bit more brains he would have played at a much higher level.

McGlashan had a very good touch and used used his backside to great effect when shielding the ball. He also had a very good shot from distance and the ability to hang in the air. He was a bit short in pace and his lack of height held him back.

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22 hours ago, laukat said:

McGlashan and Trigger were way more than just penalty box strikers.

Trigger was big enough and physically string enough to battle in the air and had a decent touch as well as a decent finish. Remember seeing him play for ICT against us at Firhill and thought he looked a real player. Was even more surprised when ICT sold him to us. If he had a bit more brains he would have played at a much higher level.

McGlashan had a very good touch and used used his backside to great effect when shielding the ball. He also had a very good shot from distance and the ability to hang in the air. He was a bit short in pace and his lack of height held him back.

‘Hanging in the air’.  Is it physically possible to do this for longer than the next guy?  Wee McGlashan undoubtedly had talent but was this really one of them?
 

I remember thinking this about Denis Law. But it must have been a mirage.

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1 hour ago, Weebaw1 said:

‘Hanging in the air’.  Is it physically possible to do this for longer than the next guy?  Wee McGlashan undoubtedly had talent but was this really one of them?
 

I remember thinking this about Denis Law. But it must have been a mirage.

I suppose it was a mirage but I used think that about Law as well. Alan Gilzean was another who could also hing in the air. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 7:20 PM, laukat said:

Agree that a backup striker is needed. I would prefer that to be a young fast amibitious striker even its someone we may not have heard of and possibly a loanee from a SPL club. That to my mind rules out a return for Doolan or an experienced player.

I think a higher priority to increase our goalscoring threat would be to get better options than Murray and Cardle. Lyons is the closest we have to have a direct running attacking threat but he has a lot to learn.

Creating space in the squad to bring in a striker and possibly 2 wide/creative players probably means getting rid of most of our current loanees as I can't see how we move on any of the permanent contracts in the current climate even though Gordon and Reilly could probably do with a change in club to get a starting spot. 

Since the emergence of Sena as centre half Breen looks less likely to play. Kouder-Aissa has struggled on the limited game time he has had but never looked like a pacey striker more a penalty box striker.  Spittal has done ok but I don't think he's what we need.

Agree with a lot of points bar the Spittal one - I think he is exactly what we need. Although unlucky with injury he can score and provide assists which is very much what we need.

he was our player of the year in the championship last time he was with us so we know when fully fit he is more than capable in league one

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6 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Agree with a lot of points bar the Spittal one - I think he is exactly what we need. Although unlucky with injury he can score and provide assists which is very much what we need.

he was our player of the year in the championship last time he was with us so we know when fully fit he is more than capable in league one

I think Spittal is only signed until January, Hughes might want to look at him. Peterhead and Montrose draw 1-1 in the league tonight.

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The system we are playing at the moment is not working, , as a matter of fact it has not worked for the last 3 years. Playing in the 3rd tier  means not playing tippy tappy football , but playing fast direct. We need 2 fast direct wingers  and a fast striker and if that means getting rid of a few of our established players then so be it .  I know what I am asking will not happen, .But lets change things around,  first of all move Foster to right back and  for the moment put Penrice  back to left back, and as long we are not fattening up Sena to be sold, put him into the mid field. We have plenty of centre backs to cover, If we are going to stick with Williamson at RB then you need to give him the ball as his first kick of the ball is is last kick. The time he gets his cross in the opposing defence has set it self up. When he plays the one two with Cardle, then Joe has to play the ball into the box right away instead of half a dozen passes around the box. Get it sorted Ian!

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1 hour ago, policemans whistle said:

The system we are playing at the moment is not working, , as a matter of fact it has not worked for the last 3 years. Playing in the 3rd tier  means not playing tippy tappy football , but playing fast direct. We need 2 fast direct wingers  and a fast striker and if that means getting rid of a few of our established players then so be it .  I know what I am asking will not happen, .But lets change things around,  first of all move Foster to right back and  for the moment put Penrice  back to left back, and as long we are not fattening up Sena to be sold, put him into the mid field. We have plenty of centre backs to cover, If we are going to stick with Williamson at RB then you need to give him the ball as his first kick of the ball is is last kick. The time he gets his cross in the opposing defence has set it self up. When he plays the one two with Cardle, then Joe has to play the ball into the box right away instead of half a dozen passes around the box. Get it sorted Ian!

Agree with most of this. It bemuses me that some forum users say we are playing hoof ball......

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13 hours ago, dl1971 said:

Agree with most of this. It bemuses me that some forum users say we are playing hoof ball......

We appear to try to play the ball out from the back but at such a slow pace. Either the ball is returned to the keeper, or more likely a cross field ball arrives at another defender too late for anything other than lumping up the park. Of course we actually require a midfield that will take the ball forward. Whether the ball arrives at advanced positions too ponderously or the attackers are over deliberate and predictable is up for question. 

When I watch top flight football on the screen successful attacking moves usually come from improvisation, sheer speed of movement or a combination of both. Watching us on the screen you too regularly know who's going to pass to who two or three moves in advance.  

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5 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

We appear to try to play the ball out from the back but at such a slow pace. Either the ball is returned to the keeper, or more likely a cross field ball arrives at another defender too late for anything other than lumping up the park. Of course we actually require a midfield that will take the ball forward. Whether the ball arrives at advanced positions too ponderously or the attackers are over deliberate and predictable is up for question. 

When I watch top flight football on the screen successful attacking moves usually come from improvisation, sheer speed of movement or a combination of both. Watching us on the screen you too regularly know who's going to pass to who two or three moves in advance.  

I actually think the speed we move the ball from keeper to centre half to midfield has improved. To my mind the speed of play starts to drop off in 2 key areas.

First when the ball moves from centre half to Bannigan as Bannigans first touch is usally to turn towards his own goal to make sure he doesn't have a man on him rather than try to take it and move it or take it and run with it.

Second place it breaks down is when Cardle recieves. Unless Williamson is available he usally wants 2 or 3 touches to see whats on rather than keep the ball moving at pace.

Beyond that the movement in central areas is not great. Neither Bannigan, Docherty or Penrice currently go beyond the strikers and tend to hold a line across the field which is fine and good in defensive positions but not so good in attacking positions.  Similarly Murray and Graham tend to stay central rather than occassionaly dropping into midfield to try and move defenders for a midfielder to run into. Graham's games is as a target man so asking him to create space is not really fair.

Rudden's pace should create more movement in the forward line but we still require some movement from midfield. Gordon is the best midfielder we have at making attacking runs but his general play is not good enough to get a starting spot in front of Penrice, Bannigan or Docherty.

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There is no point in expecting our players to play like Kevin de Bruyne or Jack Grealish. But if the midfielders want someone "within reach" to emulate, then John McGinn (especially with his background in "Scottish-type football") would be a good example to watch. He does not possess blistering pace or outstanding skill, but he is so positive, always looking to drive forward, committing midfielders and defenders, playing quick passes and having the odd pop at goal.  It does not always work out precisely as intended, but because the opposing defence has been disrupted and forced backwards, often the ball will break to a team mate who has a chance to score.  In other words he makes things happen, rather than wait for something to happen. And every now and again, he does make runs beyond his forwards.

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On 12/20/2020 at 2:01 AM, jaggy said:

Most of us have known that Bannigan was good until his injury and would have left if it hadn't happened. He's been poor to crap ever since. I'll ask you the same as I asked Pinhead, what's your answer to our problems?

Apologies for not getting back sooner. Funnily enough I meet Bannigan in the crow which is in Bishopbriggs just a few weeks after his "career threating injury" ............My F in Ar##. He should have been sacked on the spot. This is our problem we elevate someone with limited ability to legend status who for some reason or other becomes fire proof. We paid this high class junior full wages till he deemed himself fit.........Jobs for the boys I here you say................That being said I also said a few years back "this clubs in trouble" continually struggling with diddy managers with bland ambition and the same bland potential, happy being the nice wee inoffensive team from Glasgow. What's my solution!. my answer is straight forward and simple, any appointment we make should be the bottom line is for their ambition to win  "The Champions League". Not interested in provincial diddy cups, its win the league or nothing.....By the way I retire in two year a senior manager in the civil service no less. I place myself in the same category as Brian Clough "if you cant do your job then your no use to me" I will be up for the job..............Hope this answers your question..............Merry Christmas   

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