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Football's coming home


Sivad
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Today is a significant day in the history of football. The home of international football is not London, it's not Baku, it's Glasgow. Partick to be more precise, with its obvious connections to our club, an independent burgh when the first international football match was held there in 1872. Today is the first time a match in a major international tournament has been held in the country where the first international match took place. So I make no apologies for starting a belated thread for discussion of the matches in this tournament. I realise that many fans are punch drunk from repeated disappointments in both tournaments and qualifying matches from previous years, and may be put off the national team by its association with the often incompetent SFA, but it's time to get behind Scotland today, represented by a squad that includes three players who have plied their trade at Firhill.

We actually have a reasonable chance of doing well. Teams with home advantage so far have prospered, with the exception of Denmark, where special circumstances were in play. Hampden may be only partially filled, but the crowd should make a difference. We have a manager who knows what he is doing, and players who have experience at top level. There are limits to what can be expected, but there is no reason why the national team cannot make history by progressing beyond the group stage. 

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Thought Hendry was terrible today.

Pulled SOD in when he was about to close their winger down before he crossed and scored and then had a ridiculous shot when he should have passed it wide right.

Again they score.

He looked a bag of nerves from the off and it was clearly too early for him at that level.

We're out before it really begins again.

Edited by CotterJag
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The second goal was a great goal, but really surprised that Marshall has not been mentioned more. The commentators seemed to blame Hendry for taking the shot on which was blocked. But i did not see any reason for Marshall to be so far out his goal. This is not with hindsight as i posted it on the Euro predictions thread a few days ago, but i felt to many in the media had been getting carried away, some predicting Scotland getting to the semis or even winning it. As i said anything beyond getting out of the group stage would be a bonus. Not out it yet but i feel we now need to get something at Wembley which is going to be very difficult.

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3 hours ago, Anniesland Jag said:

Lyndon Dykes could have done with a Shelly Kerr hairdo today instead of that Gazza effort…might have got his head to a ball from time to time .

Thought the ex Thistle contingent did ok today with the exception of SOD’s body check on Christie .

SOD was awful. An utter liability.

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5 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

The second goal was a great goal, but really surprised that Marshall has not been mentioned more. The commentators seemed to blame Hendry for taking the shot on which was blocked. But i did not see any reason for Marshall to be so far out his goal. This is not with hindsight as i posted it on the Euro predictions thread a few days ago, but i felt to many in the media had been getting carried away, some predicting Scotland getting to the semis or even winning it. As i said anything beyond getting out of the group stage would be a bonus. Not out it yet but i feel we now need to get something at Wembley which is going to be very difficult.

The 2nd BBC commentator annoyed me with his "poor decision making by Hendry" sneer. If the shot had gone through and either ended up in the net or drew a save it would have been "a brilliant effort" by Hendry. But it was a split-second decision by him, and the shot got blocked. That doesn't make the decision "poor".

Also then it was the fault of Dykes, who's "got to score from there!", ignoring the fact that their keeper pulled off another excellent save (one of a handful), which is what often happens. 

I hate these commentators who know what should have happened after every split-second event. 

I thought Scotland played well, apart from the finishing and Marshall's costly ramble (he was otherwise excellent). The Czechs' game plan worked, ours didn't.

Edited by Jaggernaut
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6 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

The 2nd BBC commentator annoyed me with his "poor decision making by Hendry" sneer. If the shot had gone through and either ended up in the net or drew a save it would have been "a brilliant effort" by Hendry. But it was a split-second decision by him, and the shot got blocked. That doesn't make the decision "poor".

Also then it was the fault of Dykes, who's "got to score from there!", ignoring the fact that their keeper pulled off another excellent save (one of a handful), which is what often happens. 

I hate these commentators who know what should have happened after every split-second event. 

I thought Scotland played well, apart from the finishing and Marshall's costly ramble (he was otherwise excellent). The Czechs' game plan worked, ours didn't.

I thought we were awful. Didn't look strong enough and thought there was poor decision making all round. That might have been that the Czech tactics stopped us from being effective going forward at all, found that hard to judge on TV. They looked like they'd thrown in the towel with five minutes to go. In saying all that, it did come down to how clinical each team was, which is positive.

Dykes' saved effort was an ok save, but it was hit fairly close to the keeper, with a third of the goal empty. I think it may have been brought back for a handball in the build up if he'd scored anyway.

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I think Scotland could have played better, but I didn't think that they played badly. Tierney is a huge miss, not only for what he brings to the team personally but also because I think he brings the best out of Robertson who then has an overlapping, or underlapping player helping him out.

There is very little between the two teams, I always thought the first goal would be crucial and unfortunately the Czechs got it. I think if Robertson had taken that chance midway through the first half we would have been sitting this morning looking at things completely differently.

I can understand the disappointment, it was a very winnable game at home in a major tournament and we failed to win it. However you'd think that we had been battered for 90 mins going by some of the reactions.

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We have 2 world class players in Robertson and Tierney. Losing one of them was always going to effect us and for me we just looked a lot slower and predictable in our play.

That said my expectations were pretty low as we are trying to play international football with players who are nowhere near international standard. Loved Stephen O'Donnell as a Thistle player and he gives his all for his country but he's at Motherwell for a reason.  I would probably still play him at right wing back against England as the other options of a raw Nathan Patterson or a defensively suspect James Forrest are not great. Beyond O'Donnell our limited choices at Goalkeeper got exposed as well as up front where we still lack a clinical finisher. Dykes does what he's meant to do by battering defenders and winning headers but he's not a finisher. Adams looked a lot better as he brough pace and movement but the chances never fell to him.

The midfield 3 didn't do a lot wrong but Armstrong, McGinn and McTominay are very similar players. Neither of them want to play short passes in and out of the lines and we missed that variation. McGregor and Christie still look like they have played too much football and lost their edge.

For me the key moment was actually the Czech keepers save from Robertson. Robertson was our leader and he's one one one form the keeper less than 18 yards out. If he scores we are 1-0 up and can sit back. A few minutes later we are 0-1 down and its a long way back from there. We did continue to create chances and apart from Robertson, Hendry, Armstrong and Dykes should really have scored with their opportunities as well as the Czech keeper making a really good save from a possible own goal.

Getting to the tournament was our major achievement and even a scudding from England and Croatia won't take away from the elation felt after that game in Belgrade. Clarke has done a decent job of organising the team and finding a formation that covers off our weaknesses but still allows us to create chances so all the talk of he's hopeless and should be binned is for me embarassing. It was only 2 weeks ago that the Dutch were lucky to draw with us.  However I hope he looks at how we add pace and variation for the England game. If Tierney is unfit we will have to go with the same back 5 but I'm hoping we go with the following

Gordon

O'Donnell-Hendry-Cooper-Tierney-Robertson

McGinn-Gilmour-McTominay

Fraser-Adams

Gilmour brings variation, freshness and pace to the midfieled. From watching England I'm pretty sure Mings and Stones will make mistakes particularly against smaller more mobile players. Thats something Fraser could exploit.

 

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Paterson should have played against the poorest team in our group. He’d have been a huge improvement on SOD’s early attempts at attack.

In Tierney’s absence we could have played a Liverpool back 4 system with 2 ultra attacking full backs and McTominay providing cover.

Not sure about chucking Paterson in against a skilful England team. Perhaps we should sit in with our strongest defence and hope for a point, then throw everything at Croatia.

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22 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

The 2nd BBC commentator annoyed me with his "poor decision making by Hendry" sneer. If the shot had gone through and either ended up in the net or drew a save it would have been "a brilliant effort" by Hendry. But it was a split-second decision by him, and the shot got blocked. That doesn't make the decision "poor".

Also then it was the fault of Dykes, who's "got to score from there!", ignoring the fact that their keeper pulled off another excellent save (one of a handful), which is what often happens. 

I hate these commentators who know what should have happened after every split-second event. 

I thought Scotland played well, apart from the finishing and Marshall's costly ramble (he was otherwise excellent). The Czechs' game plan worked, ours didn't.

The 2nd commentator was James McFadden. I always find it amusing that when ex players become pundits they are always world beaters and never miss a chance or make a mistake. I think it was Dennis Taylor who said he had never lost a frame of snooker from the commentary  box. :happy2:

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12 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

Paterson should have played against the poorest team in our group. He’d have been a huge improvement on SOD’s early attempts at attack.

In Tierney’s absence we could have played a Liverpool back 4 system with 2 ultra attacking full backs and McTominay providing cover.

Not sure about chucking Paterson in against a skilful England team. Perhaps we should sit in with our strongest defence and hope for a point, then throw everything at Croatia.

No to Paterson.

I know one of his blue nose relatives and he goes apoplectic when a Motherwell player is picked before his boy. It gives me great pleasure to remind him that SOD is a former Jag and watch the steam come out his ears.  

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I have identified the obvious flaw in the Scotland coaching team's preparations for the Czech Republic match. They should of course have been schooling the squad in pattern recognition based on Dundee United v Thistle games in 2014 and 2015.

Wide to the right of the box, Ryan Christie does not try and beat the whole Czech defence single-handedly. As SOD ventures forward, Ryan recognises the run and channels his inner Lyle Taylor. One back-heel takes out 3 defenders, SOD gives the eyes to the last defender standing, and tucks the ball in the far corner.

As the ball is tee'd up for him invitingly on the left edge of the box, Andy Robertson runs on to it, memory on auto-pilot and drills his shot low and hard into the opposite corner, giving the keeper no chance.

Scotland 2 Czech Republic 0, and we are well on the way to victory.

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Been thinking some more about the Czechs' 2nd goal. Yes, the Scotland goalie deserves pelters, but guys have been scoring goals like that for years, against amateurs as well as top-ranked goalies. Remember David Seaman? And something not too different happened when Ronaldinho caught him off his line at a free kick.

Calls for Marshall to be dropped are an overreaction, I think. What about every chance we missed; should those who missed them also be dropped?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gktEEs61q_E

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Marshall made 2 or 3 really good saves during the game, that will unfortunately be forgotten but that's the way it goes sometimes.

He will know himself that he was probably 10 yards or so too far forward, had he been further back then Schick maybe doesn't take the shot on and they have a counter attack on which could well have resulted in a goal anyway.

Hendry probably shouldn't have taken the shot on, but he was just after hitting the bar and had scored a great goal against the Netherlands so I can see why he did it. Just about everything that could have went wrong for Scotland in that sequence of play did go wrong and it's really unlucky. As amazing a finish as that was, he could hit that shot another 50 times under the same conditions and probably be lucky for it to go in a handful of times.

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51 minutes ago, redandyellowallover said:

Marshall made 2 or 3 really good saves during the game, that will unfortunately be forgotten but that's the way it goes sometimes.

He will know himself that he was probably 10 yards or so too far forward, had he been further back then Schick maybe doesn't take the shot on and they have a counter attack on which could well have resulted in a goal anyway.

Hendry probably shouldn't have taken the shot on, but he was just after hitting the bar and had scored a great goal against the Netherlands so I can see why he did it. Just about everything that could have went wrong for Scotland in that sequence of play did go wrong and it's really unlucky. As amazing a finish as that was, he could hit that shot another 50 times under the same conditions and probably be lucky for it to go in a handful of times.

This is something that hasn't been emphasised enough.

Hendry taking that shot on in the face of easier options was a poor, poor decision. The block rebounded to the striker who had three yards on Hanley, and fast though he is, Hanley was not making that up over thirty/forty yards without a probable red card. If Marshall is on the D then he has to come to narrow the angle, leaving him open to being chipped, or the striker can draw Cooper and plays in his supporting team-mate.

The unlucky part was the trajectory of the rebound, but even that is attributable to the root of the problem which was Hendry's decision to shoot in the face of better options.

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36 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

This is something that hasn't been emphasised enough.

Hendry taking that shot on in the face of easier options was a poor, poor decision. The block rebounded to the striker who had three yards on Hanley, and fast though he is, Hanley was not making that up over thirty/forty yards without a probable red card. If Marshall is on the D then he has to come to narrow the angle, leaving him open to being chipped, or the striker can draw Cooper and plays in his supporting team-mate.

The unlucky part was the trajectory of the rebound, but even that is attributable to the root of the problem which was Hendry's decision to shoot in the face of better options.

Inumerable great goals have been scored because the scorer decided to shoot in the face of "better options." But because they were goals, the options are no longer considered "better."

Hindsight is great, isn't it.

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