lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Third Lanark said: Not seen an indication that Turner is lightweight at all in fact at both Dunfermline and Airdrie he seemed more than happy to get stuck in, was not bullied off the hall and as Airdrie fans acknowledged pretty much dragged them onto a promotion charge Agree about Turner. Considering the job he's been brought to do he still manages to get stuck in. Perhaps what Fearchar was meaning was he's no replacement for Docherty. In that respect a central mid pairing of Bannigan & Turner is lightweight. There's no doubt in my mind that we're using these league cup games as kinda competitive friendlies, in so much as we're resting and rotating players and also playing about with different formations/line ups. If a league game, and say Docherty was unavailable, we'd have had Sena or McKenna (maybe even Bell) in the holding role joining Bannigan & Turner in midfield. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why? Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play! Rant over. Back to beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why? Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play! Rant over. Back to beer. There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted July 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought too sensible for Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: There should maybe be a case made for awarding only two points for a nullified tie and no advantage to the goal difference - just a thought Would that not unfairly deal with the “winning” team ? Maybe one goal advantage for the winning team and 3 goal deficit for the forfeiting team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 I don't believe anyone could come up with a fair way of dealing with these cancelled matches. I suppose you could rank every team and have a sliding scale of outcomes. In the case of a higher ranked club forfeiting to a lower ranked club something along the lines of gianlucatoni's post. Whereas you use the current 3points/3-0 when the lower ranked club forfeits. Tho' that may be fairer it still rips the heart out of a cup competition and the outcome is still devalued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 Add another forfeited match to the pile: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57917834 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 If a team needed a 4-0 win in the final game, but the other team forfeited to give a 3-0 win, would that be fair ? I don’t know what the answer is, but however it is decided, some innocent party is going to suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: If a team needed a 4-0 win in the final game, but the other team forfeited to give a 3-0 win, would that be fair ? I don’t know what the answer is, but however it is decided, some innocent party is going to suffer. Can you imagine the panic in football's high offices if it was the Scumbag Old Firm involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Can you imagine the panic in football's high offices if it was the Scumbag Old Firm involved. Behave GRE - you are well aware of how it works. It's an automatic 8-0 to the ugly sister involved and a demotion for the diddy team for having denied Sky Sports their obligatory broadcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: Behave GRE - you are well aware of how it works. It's an automatic 8-0 to the ugly sister involved and a demotion for the diddy team for having denied Sky Sports their obligatory broadcast. My apologies Barney. How silly of me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: From the postmatch interview it seems that almost whatever happens next we will be unlikely to progress in the League Cup, given that other teams were handed 3-0 victories because of Covid, whereas we actually had to play and win, but by less than that rather generous (non)score. Who decided on precisely 3-0, and why? Call me paranoid, but it seems that as a club we have always been particularly more prone than others when it comes to suffering as a result of fairly arbitrary (or are they?) decisions by blazers. These can be traced right back to trying to get admission to the league in the 19th century, losing out (relegated) in the league reconstruction in the 70s, failure of a blazer acting as referee to give us a stonewall penalty at Tannadice near the end of the play-off game there, changing the seating capacity/groundsharing rules to allow ICT to take our place in top flight, the fiasco of last year's decision to relegate use despite us having a game in hand..... and now this "Sorry but other teams won 3-0" diktat. No they didn't. They didn't even play! Rant over. Back to beer. Coincidentally, a 3-0 win against St. Mirren is probably what we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Coincidentally, a 3-0 win against St. Mirren is probably what we need. Is that all? What was I worrying about. At least 5-0 Thistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 I guess that for league games called off due to COVID that these will postponed and rearranged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivad Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 St Mirren were awarded a 3-0 result when Dumbarton forfeited. When Dunfermline got to play Dumbarton, they won 5-1. So in this instance it could be argued that St Mirren lost out. A three goal win for Thistle on Sunday would get us above St Mirren, but we'd also have to rely on Dunfermline failing to beat Stenhousemuir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Sivad said: St Mirren were awarded a 3-0 result when Dumbarton forfeited. When Dunfermline got to play Dumbarton, they won 5-1. So in this instance it could be argued that St Mirren lost out. A three goal win for Thistle on Sunday would get us above St Mirren, but we'd also have to rely on Dunfermline failing to beat Stenhousemuir. 9 points should get one of the best second places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: I guess that for league games called off due to COVID that these will postponed and rearranged. Being absolute sticklers for governance I'm sure the SPFL will have the relevant watertight rules in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: 9 points should get one of the best second places Looks like there is no best runner up this year, just the 6 group winners. So 3-0 will do if Pars don’t beat Stenny. 5 goals better than Pars if they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Jag II Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Looks like there is no best runner up this year, just the 6 group winners. So 3-0 will do if Pars don’t beat Stenny. 5 goals better than Pars if they do. According to various sources (wickpedia probably being the most easily accessible) all 8 section winners plus the 3 best runners up progress to the next round, DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 And of course any club with a covid outbreak should try to keep it quiet for as long as possible, because who knows, maybe the opposition have exactly the same problem. But it's the first club to go public with it that forfeits the match; the other club can then sighs in relief and feel chuffed that they played it so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Lenziejag said: Would that not unfairly deal with the “winning” team ? there's no guarantees that the team benefiting from the forfeited tie would actually have won the tie if it was played - so 2 points would seem more sensible and balanced in context Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpj Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 5 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said: According to various sources (wickpedia probably being the most easily accessible) all 8 section winners plus the 3 best runners up progress to the next round, DD. There needs to be 16 teams in next round so that makes sense if 5 teams got a bye as in European competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: there's no guarantees that the team benefiting from the forfeited tie would actually have won the tie if it was played - so 2 points would seem more sensible and balanced in context You make a valid point. I just know that had Dumbarton not been able to field a side the another night I'd have felt kinda cheated only been awarded 2 points. In turn, and I generalise, that possible/probable(?) loss of a 3rd point could make a club's following game meaningless. Of course, as you could point out, under other circumstances an unfancied club picking up 3 points and +3 goal difference could make other ties academic. Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? Both have retired. Steven Stern is the man now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: You make a valid point. I just know that had Dumbarton not been able to field a side the another night I'd have felt kinda cheated only been awarded 2 points. In turn, and I generalise, that possible/probable(?) loss of a 3rd point could make a club's following game meaningless. Of course, as you could point out, under other circumstances an unfancied club picking up 3 points and +3 goal difference could make other ties academic. Anyone know what that renown double act Duckworth & Lewis are up to these days? a cricketing aficionado! … need a degree to work out the required run rate! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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