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37 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I can only comment on Scandinavia where there is no forced usage of the vaccination.

The “passport” for gaining access in Denmark is about taking a negative test, they have removed emergency parliament powers after mass protests.

Sweden next to no lockdown and Stockholm has better figures than Glasgow.

Norway no usage of V-Passport except at border from non-EU country, no masks low figures, encouraging take up of vaccination rather than forcing.

There is no forced vaccination in Scotland. There is no lockdown in Scotland.

What emergency parliamentary powers exist in Scotland? I genuinely don't know.

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10 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

It’s quite alarming that a lot of the “conspiracies” posted then (including on here) seem to not only being proven to be true, but seem to be welcomed.

Just shows if you control the media you control the population. So was the vaccination made for COVID or was COVID made for the vaccination??

The media in Scotland is almost universally anti snp so who us controlling it ? Ludicrous statement 

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9 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

2 week lockdown? Almost 18 months

Flatten the curve?  It flattened still restrictions 

Protect NHS?  8 hour average wait for ambulance currently in Glasgow 

Vaccine 75% and all is good? Now forcing mandatory for remaining 19%
 

If the “script” continues expect a new lockdown followed by a massive economic issue that makes current currency worthless 

It’s almost like a global pandemic that has officially killed 4.5 m people globally, though the economist   estimates its at least double that at over 10m and maybe as high as 15m   has been invented for no good reason …..90% of people in Scotland have received one dose and 82% two does and the vaccine passport requirements are very restricted…..look at Sydney with delta the hospitals are nearing  capacity, the ambulance service has been dealing with New Year’s Eve levels of COVID patients for 21 straight days at least 3400 COVID  patients a day and 90% of people in hospital not vaccinated but of course they should just open up ….nuts 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

I can only comment on Scandinavia where there is no forced usage of the vaccination.

The “passport” for gaining access in Denmark is about taking a negative test, they have removed emergency parliament powers after mass protests.

Sweden next to no lockdown and Stockholm has better figures than Glasgow.

Norway no usage of V-Passport except at border from non-EU country, no masks low figures, encouraging take up of vaccination rather than forcing.

So in fact Denmark, Norway and Finland have all had vaccine passports indeed have most European countries for travel purposes …..most people in Scotland will be more affected by filling in the Spain travel app than vaccine passports in Scotland 

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21 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The media in Scotland is almost universally anti snp so who us controlling it ? Ludicrous statement 

The poster in question feels the need to vent anti-Scottish government (some might say anti-Scotland) verbiage on a regular basis.

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While I agree that the application of vaccine passports in Scotland seems arbitrary, I think that some posters on here have double standards. Eg it is ok to give out your medical history if you want to travel, but not ok if want to watch a football match or go clubbing.  

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13 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

...

Just shows if you control the media you control the population. So was the vaccination made for COVID or was COVID made for the vaccination??

 

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

The media in Scotland is almost universally anti snp so who us controlling it ? Ludicrous statement 

The statement isn't ludicrous. The inference that it's politicians that control the media is. If a ruling party want's to keep the media onside it must make the right noises for a handful of billionaire owners. The SNP is on to plums there.

The final sentence in the top quote above is a warning to us all. Don't believe everything posted on YouTube.

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4 hours ago, javeajag said:

So in fact Denmark, Norway and Finland have all had vaccine passports indeed have most European countries for travel purposes …..most people in Scotland will be more affected by filling in the Spain travel app than vaccine passports in Scotland 

COVID passports (for travel) in every other country in Europe also has a place you are marked “good” if you have antibodies from a previous infection. Scotland’s won’t as confirmed by FM today.

None of these 3 countries ask or stipulate you must be vaccinated before entering a club, bar, football ground, only you test

As studies in Israel have shown you are better protected after being infected that 2 jabs.

This is nothing to do with protection and all to do with forcing a medical treatment on folk.

This has been rushed through with no clear thoughts on how to do this, where it actually covers and how premises will check. The actual App isn’t ready yet.

So what does football come under? Outdoor live events with more than 4000 in attendance or any event that has more than 10000 in attendance? 10000 in one stadium is empty but 2000 in another is rammed. 

How will venues read the data and what do they do with it? Do they scan the QR code, how do they check it’s not screen shot and passed back down queue, the onus is on the premises to ensure only double vaccinated are allowed in. 
How is data stored, shared etc?


If BoJo had forced this through before SG many on here accepting it would be up in arms. I would still be up in arms as this does nothing to limit the spread, it’s an ID card by the back door (Remember those everyone opposed after 9-11!!).

 

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30 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

It was brought up and acknowledged in Scottish parliament yesterday 

What does '8 hour average wait for ambulance' mean? Emergency call out? Routine outpatient transport? Turn around time? It reads like a tabloid headline. If you have a substantive point to make then make it clear.

Edited by BowenBoys

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5 minutes ago, BowenBoys said:

What does '8 hour average wait for ambulance' mean? Emergency call out? Routine outpatient transport? Turn around time? It reads like a tabloid headline. If you have a substantive point to make then make it clear.

For 999 calls

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Don't wish to become too political but this is in line with recent posts. I think most of us agree that the vaccine passport for football grounds won't change case levels in Scotland. It won't really improve vaccine rates in Scotland (which are actually pretty high) and there is no explanation how you can check the vaccine status of over 10,000 people at an event anyway. So, what is the purpose of bringing in vaccine passports at football matches? Politicians are risk averse. This is about our decision-makers trying to protect themselves not us. They'll say they've done everything they could (even where it wasn't necessary). Any risk of criticism of the Scottish government would affect their ultimate goal of having an independence referendum (and their chances of winning it)

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14 minutes ago, Arete said:

Don't wish to become too political but this is in line with recent posts. I think most of us agree that the vaccine passport for football grounds won't change case levels in Scotland. It won't really improve vaccine rates in Scotland (which are actually pretty high) and there is no explanation how you can check the vaccine status of over 10,000 people at an event anyway. So, what is the purpose of bringing in vaccine passports at football matches? Politicians are risk averse. This is about our decision-makers trying to protect themselves not us. They'll say they've done everything they could (even where it wasn't necessary). Any risk of criticism of the Scottish government would affect their ultimate goal of having an independence referendum (and their chances of winning it)

If you read 'spoiler alerts' (previously known as conspiracy theories) this is beginning of a second attempt at bringing in digital ID (after first failed when Tony Blair was PM) where everything about you will be held in one place (health data, criminal record, credit score etc) and will be required for accessing bars, restaurants, concerts, football etc.  They are starting with 'covid vaccination status' as by this point majority of people would appear to be in favour of this and then it will just grow arms and legs from there. The fact that banks are now making it no longer cost effective to deal in cash and as good as forcing venues like Firhill, Hampden etc to be card payments only may not be unrelated.

Let's look back at this post in 6 months or a year's time and see where we are. If this is all nonsense and 'covid passports' were only temporary and introduced for a  short period of time before being cancelled and life went back to normal then I'll admit that I was wrong.

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

COVID passports (for travel) in every other country in Europe also has a place you are marked “good” if you have antibodies from a previous infection. Scotland’s won’t as confirmed by FM today.

None of these 3 countries ask or stipulate you must be vaccinated before entering a club, bar, football ground, only you test

As studies in Israel have shown you are better protected after being infected that 2 jabs.

This is nothing to do with protection and all to do with forcing a medical treatment on folk.

This has been rushed through with no clear thoughts on how to do this, where it actually covers and how premises will check. The actual App isn’t ready yet.

So what does football come under? Outdoor live events with more than 4000 in attendance or any event that has more than 10000 in attendance? 10000 in one stadium is empty but 2000 in another is rammed. 

How will venues read the data and what do they do with it? Do they scan the QR code, how do they check it’s not screen shot and passed back down queue, the onus is on the premises to ensure only double vaccinated are allowed in. 
How is data stored, shared etc?


If BoJo had forced this through before SG many on here accepting it would be up in arms. I would still be up in arms as this does nothing to limit the spread, it’s an ID card by the back door (Remember those everyone opposed after 9-11!!).

 

I could argue getting tested every time you enter a club is much more hassle than showing a QR code on your phone especially when 90% plus if people are vaccinated 

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

I could argue getting tested every time you enter a club is much more hassle than showing a QR code on your phone especially when 90% plus if people are vaccinated 

Testing is effective, current and does not discriminate against those wary of a vaccination.

Passport is not current to your current “clear” status, non effective as you can still be carrying and transmitting it, and discriminates against those wary of the vaccination, it will actually strengthen their resolve and suspicion now they are effectively being forced to take a medical intervention.

 

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Just a couple of thoughts: the media have been screaming for the country to return to normal. Bars, restaurants, travel companies, all screaming at the government that this is armageddon unless everybody can go back to being normal. And the media pumps this out (especially in Scotland, where the media is controlled by anti-Scottish concerns). Those who oppose the government jump on the bandwagon. Not surprisingly, as a result of relaxation of "rules," infection rates go up, and then those same people are in fact happy to scream at the government that they are not doing enough. The government then suggests some kind of filtering system so that only vaccinated people can attend certain events. Those same screamers then say this is like North Korea, or the nazis: you need to carry ID, or you need to be "forcibly" vaccinated.

And ask the screamers (none of whom actually know much, other than what they read on their favourite websites) what they would do: you get laughable suggestions, biased or frankly outrageous examples, or silence.

Enjoy the game tomorrow everybody, if it's on.

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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

Just a couple of thoughts: the media have been screaming for the country to return to normal. Bars, restaurants, travel companies, all screaming at the government that this is armageddon unless everybody can go back to being normal. And the media pumps this out (especially in Scotland, where the media is controlled by anti-Scottish concerns). Those who oppose the government jump on the bandwagon. Not surprisingly, as a result of relaxation of "rules," infection rates go up, and then those same people are in fact happy to scream at the government that they are not doing enough. The government then suggests some kind of filtering system so that only vaccinated people can attend certain events. Those same screamers then say this is like North Korea, or the nazis: you need to carry ID, or you need to be "forcibly" vaccinated.

And ask the screamers (none of whom actually know much, other than what they read on their favourite websites) what they would do: you get laughable suggestions, biased or frankly outrageous examples, or silence.

Enjoy the game tomorrow everybody, if it's on.

Covid rates in Scotland went up when the schools went back. Even our less favourite websites show that. I don't advocate closing the schools but vaccine passports for outdoor football grounds do not address the problem. It just makes it look like you're doing something when you're not really achieving anything.

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2 minutes ago, Arete said:

Covid rates in Scotland went up when the schools went back. Even our less favourite websites show that. I don't advocate closing the schools but vaccine passports for outdoor football grounds do not address the problem. It just makes it look like you're doing something when you're not really achieving anything.

So don't be shy: What do you want?

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7 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

So don't be shy: What do you want?

Testing and a far quicker better track and trace would be more proactive.

Encouraging more folk to get the vaccine instead of forcing their backs to the wall would also help, offer something if they take it instead of removing liberties if they don’t.

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16 minutes ago, Arete said:

Covid rates in Scotland went up when the schools went back. Even our less favourite websites show that. I don't advocate closing the schools but vaccine passports for outdoor football grounds do not address the problem. It just makes it look like you're doing something when you're not really achieving anything.

So, what's your solution? Do nothing? Do something? If something, what?

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3 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

So, what's your solution? Do nothing? Do something? If something, what?

I’ve told you mine, do you think the Covid passport will stop the spread, or will it just stop people taking precautions in clubs or gigs as everyone is vaccinated?

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3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Testing and a far quicker better track and trace would be more proactive.

Encouraging more folk to get the vaccine instead of forcing their backs to the wall would also help, offer something if they take it instead of removing liberties if they don’t.

So many people I know (including family members) have been pinged within a couple of hours of being in the company of people who've tested positive. So, what's your solution for a "better track and trace" ? ( I won't dwell on the obscene f*ck ups by Westminster to get a super-duper system up and running.... No questions asked in the media about where the millions of pounds went, of course. Was it 37 million?  My guess is that an investigative journalist would find some very embarrassing connections.... if there were any more investigative journalists in the so-called United Kingdom.)

What's the "forcing" by the Scottish government? People can choose. And what "offers" do you suggest, keeping in mind that many people have come forward for vaccination without getting "offered" anything except some protection? If the Scottish government now "offers" something, some people  (maybe including you?) will scream about unfairness and/or bribery. 

In the words of Kurt Vonnegut: And so it goes.

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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Testing is effective, current and does not discriminate against those wary of a vaccination.

Passport is not current to your current “clear” status, non effective as you can still be carrying and transmitting it, and discriminates against those wary of the vaccination, it will actually strengthen their resolve and suspicion now they are effectively being forced to take a medical intervention.

 

Just about everybody is vaccinated anyway ….. currently 91% why the 9% which includes those who can’t be vaccinated are so important  I don’t get 

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Just now, Jaggernaut said:

So many people I know (including family members) have been pinged within a couple of hours of being in the company of people who've tested positive. So, what's your solution for a "better track and trace" ? ( I won't dwell on the obscene f*ck ups by Westminster to get a super-duper system up and running.... No questions asked in the media about where the millions of pounds went, of course. Was it 37 million?  My guess is that an investigative journalist would find some very embarrassing connections.... if there were any more investigative journalists in the so-called United Kingdom.)

What's the "forcing" by the Scottish government? People can choose. And what "offers" do you suggest, keeping in mind that many people have come forward for vaccination without getting "offered" anything except some protection? If the Scottish government now "offers" something, some people  (maybe including you?) will scream about unfairness and/or bribery. 

In the words of Kurt Vonnegut: And so it goes.

It’s 37billion !! The biggest farce ever …..a total disgrace 

as a thistle fan who doesn’t go to night clubs will I be affected by this ….no 

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