Rovers v Thistle

[Garscube Road End 2]

39 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

I'm just being objective, not subjective. Two sides to every story. You have made your position clear so let's see if you will be eating a large dose of humble pie , similar to last season. I certainly hope so and I'll be applauding with gusto. 

Well, at least I have the humility to eat humble pie, while you stick your fingers in your ears and sing, la-la-la.. Since McCall has come back he has been average at best. He just doesn't cut it to take us to a higher level. He is repeating the script of his last tenure at Firhill. 

[dl1971]

18 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Well, at least I have the humility to eat humble pie, while you stick your fingers in your ears and sing, la-la-la.. Since McCall has come back he has been average at best. He just doesn't cut it to take us to a higher level. He is repeating the script of his last tenure at Firhill. 

You have humility? Now that is funny. Just because I don't like your brand of mourning when things go against us, does not mean that I'm any less disappointed when things don't go our away. I'm just a little more balanced in my expectations. It's only 7 games in with 29 to play so lots can happen and probably will. Let's both hope you go back into your humility bank for a large withdrawal at the end of the season. 

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

40 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

You have humility? Now that is funny. Just because I don't like your brand of mourning when things go against us, does not mean that I'm any less disappointed when things don't go our away. I'm just a little more balanced in my expectations. It's only 7 games in with 29 to play so lots can happen and probably will. Let's both hope you go back into your humility bank for a large withdrawal at the end of the season. 

 

Taking in to account the League Cup, League and Challeng Cup that is a minimum of 12 games played and McCall still doesn't know the shape of his side? He is clueless. This squad in relation to the rest of the division is a top 4 side, but the manager definitely isn't.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I imagine most on here will agree about the lack of shape/balance in the team. Culpability for that lies unarguably with the management. I happen to believe that by and large McCall has recruited well in terms of quality, if not  entirely in terms of positional cover. Taking that on board I feel we're currently in a sum of the parts exceeding the whole situation. That of course in itself isn't what's wanted but at least, if I'm right about the quality, it's repairable. 

Another foreseeable problem is we could well, by the time we do stumble upon the right formation/balance, be handicapped with injury to key players. Most successful teams will start out with the right shape, only having to play makeshift formations and players out of position when injuries and suspensions start to bite. Fingers crossed then that once we get that necessary shape (hopefully sooner rather than later) we're not hampered by key injuries. 

[laukat]

Agree with @lady-isobel-barnett recruitment is decent but with some areas that lack cover. I was originally concerned that we didn't have enough cover at fullback, defensive midfield and at goalkeeper. However I think the signing of Hendrie means we now have reasonable cover there, plenty of centreback options, we have enough keepers although quality may be questionable, decent attacking midfield options with cover for Docherty in defensive midfield provided by Akinola, Mayo and Bannigan if pushed. Up front we have reasonable cover at striker.

We still however have gaps in the wings. Tiffoney is the only wide player we have and it was noticeable against Raith that they knew this and put 2 men on him at the cost of giving McKenna much more space one the right because they figured McKenna or Mayo couldn't hurt them as much as Tiffoney. If Tiffoney was injured we either need to go to a 3-5-2 or play even more players out of position.

As much as we have talked about playing a centrehalf at rightback makes us lop sided I suspect part of the reason we are doing that is that the managers doesn't feel the wide right options provide enough protection. Hastie was obviously signed to fill that gap and not having him in there is a miss.

We still have the possiiblity of signing players on loan. I would hope that a wide player is the priority to at least cover for injuries.

[Dick Dastardly]

Is this not a recurring theme with McCall ?

He took over Cauldwell's team and didn't get as much out of the players as Cauldwell had. But give him the benefit of doubt as it wasn't his team, Even so, it set a trend.

In January he made changes to the squad, but results didn't improve. The team still seriously underperformed from the talent available

A summer to get in the team he wanted and even down in League One, with arguably the biggest budget and on paper the best squad, we were mid table and going nowhere.

Post January not much changed and a team that should have been challenging for the title were struggling to make the play-offs.

Covid break and we came back to 6 or 7 weeks where the team did play well

On to this season and a team that should be, on paper, once again challenging is languishing in mid table.

That is 4 transfer windows he has had and is still struggling to find a shape. Hendrie and Hastie were supposedly brought in to provide some width. Where are they ? Was he too busy chasing big names like Charlie Mulgrew (who we were never going to get) to notice that he had big holes in the set up ? This is McCall's team. If he didn't sign them then he offered a new contract to every one. If there is a lack of shape there is only one person to blame. If it is poor quality players, there is only one person to blame. If it is an underperforming team, there is only one person to blame.

[Duke Gekantawa]

35 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

 

He took over Cauldwell's team and didn't get as much out of the players as Cauldwell had. But give him the benefit of doubt as it wasn't his team, Even so, it set a trend.

 

 

I disagree with this point entirely. I recall that he took over Caldwell's truly horrific side and definitely improved performances and results in the run up to January. It was only when he made sweeping wholesale changes to the side in January that the results fell off a cliff. This was partly a consequence of trying to bed in so many new players at once midway during the season.  I thought performances were starting to improve just as the season closed down, but ultimately we will never know whether we would have stayed up that season or not without the early season close. 

Last season he won the league, can't ask for more than that.

This season the team has started off under-performing, largely because the defence is failing (we are leaking two goals a game on average - and scoring two goals a game).  Hopefully he will sort out the defence in the near future- perhaps Akinola and Hastie will make the difference. If he doesn't then he will indeed face the sack as conceding 2 goals a game will only lead you one way.

[Dick Dastardly]

55 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

 trying to bed in so many new players at once midway during the season. 

What is the difference between this and the team was underperfoming, other than being an excuse.

[Duke Gekantawa]

8 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

What is the difference between this and the team was underperfoming, other than being an excuse.

I think most managers would have difficulty bedding in so many new players in such a short space in time; it seems fairly normal to me. It is of course an excuse, I just think it a justifiable or understandable one.

[Jaggernaut]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Is this not a recurring theme with McCall ?

He took over Cauldwell's team and didn't get as much out of the players as Cauldwell had. But give him the benefit of doubt as it wasn't his team, Even so, it set a trend.

In January he made changes to the squad, but results didn't improve. The team still seriously underperformed from the talent available

A summer to get in the team he wanted and even down in League One, with arguably the biggest budget and on paper the best squad, we were mid table and going nowhere.

Post January not much changed and a team that should have been challenging for the title were struggling to make the play-offs.

Covid break and we came back to 6 or 7 weeks where the team did play well

On to this season and a team that should be, on paper, once again challenging is languishing in mid table.

That is 4 transfer windows he has had and is still struggling to find a shape. Hendrie and Hastie were supposedly brought in to provide some width. Where are they ? Was he too busy chasing big names like Charlie Mulgrew (who we were never going to get) to notice that he had big holes in the set up ? This is McCall's team. If he didn't sign them then he offered a new contract to every one. If there is a lack of shape there is only one person to blame. If it is poor quality players, there is only one person to blame. If it is an underperforming team, there is only one person to blame.

Plenty for discussion there.

 Especially "languishing in mid table."

We've been there for precisely 2 days.

When does "languishing" kick in? Were we also languishing in the play-off zone for several weeks?

What are the accepted terms to describe what the team in first place, second place etc. are actually doing? For 1st place, if the team is miles ahead they're sailing. Team at the bottom is putrefying.

[Dick Dastardly]

17 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Plenty for discussion there.

 Especially "languishing in mid table."

We've been there for precisely 2 days.

When does "languishing" kick in? Were we also languishing in the play-off zone for several weeks?

What are the accepted terms to describe what the team in first place, second place etc. are actually doing? For 1st place, if the team is miles ahead they're sailing. Team at the bottom is putrefying.

We have lost to all the top 4 sides and have beaten 3 of the bottom 4. That sounds pretty mid-table to me.

[Dick Dastardly]

3 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

I think most managers would have difficulty bedding in so many new players in such a short space in time; it seems fairly normal to me. It is of course an excuse, I just think it a justifiable or understandable one.

Then why the **** do it if you expect form to drop ? It's not like we had any margin to do that ? 

And why, after 4 transfer windows is he still struggling to find a balance ? Surely the team should be in top gear now if we are ever going to under McCall. As has been said, decent scout, poor manager.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Dick Dastardly

[McCall Out]

4 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

I disagree with this point entirely. I recall that he took over Caldwell's truly horrific side and definitely improved performances and results in the run up to January. It was only when he made sweeping wholesale changes to the side in January that the results fell off a cliff. This was partly a consequence of trying to bed in so many new players at once midway during the season.  I thought performances were starting to improve just as the season closed down, but ultimately we will never know whether we would have stayed up that season or not without the early season close. 

Last season he won the league, can't ask for more than that.

This season the team has started off under-performing, largely because the defence is failing (we are leaking two goals a game on average - and scoring two goals a game).  Hopefully he will sort out the defence in the near future- perhaps Akinola and Hastie will make the difference. If he doesn't then he will indeed face the sack as conceding 2 goals a game will only lead you one way.

I could ask for him to have not had us relegated in the first place. He won a league he should never have had us in.

EDIT TO ADD .... I forgot that being bottom of the league was part of McCall's master plan to save us from relegation, and it was only scuppered by those pesky SFA/SPFL and their unscrupulous vote.

Edited September 28, 2021 by McCall Out

[Garscube Road End 2]

25 minutes ago, McCall Out said:

I could ask for him to have not had us relegated in the first place. He won a league he should never have had us in.

EDIT TO ADD .... I forgot that being bottom of the league was part of McCall's master plan to save us from relegation, and it was only scuppered by those pesky SFA/SPFL and their unscrupulous vote.

Exactly this. 

[Duke Gekantawa]

48 minutes ago, McCall Out said:

I could ask for him to have not had us relegated in the first place. He won a league he should never have had us in.

EDIT TO ADD .... I forgot that being bottom of the league was part of McCall's master plan to save us from relegation, and it was only scuppered by those pesky SFA/SPFL and their unscrupulous vote.

He still won the league. That is all he could do from the position he started the season in. As supporters of other similarly sized clubs can tell you (e.g., Raith, Falkirk), it is not necessarily a walk in the park to get out of that league. To do so in one go, and as champions remains laudable.

I also think the timing of the shut down was very unlucky.  After taking the risk of bedding in a new side, and consequent hit in form it looked to me that the side was coming together. There is no way that he'd have made such wholesale changes to the squad if he was to know that there would only be a handful of games remaining. Some things cannot be planned for.

However, I also accept that there was no certainty that we would have stayed up last season if it ended normally. It is also unarguable that the team's present form is worrying (4 losses out of 5, with a shocking defensive record). It may be that you get your wish soon; if our form continues in a similar vein over the next couple of months, his position will indeed be untenable. If he is sacked, at least he will leave the next manager with a much better squad than the one he inherited.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Duke Gekantawa