Jaggernaut Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 "We asked for and were denied a formal process of Due Diligence." For me (and I'm glad I've held off from joining so far), if that is accurate, then maybe it should be enough to reach the decision not to touch the whole thing even with a barge pole. Simple question: Is there something (or multiple things) to hide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 Perhaps someone with more of an accounting brain can help me with this… Partick Thistle Football Club Limited (the Club) owned about half of Firhill Developments Limited (PropCo). Firhill Developments Ltd sold its two main assets, the Main Stand and the Bing, to Three Black Cats in November 2019, for just shy of £2 million. The Club’s “share” of that was about half. Firhill Developments Limited was wound up in September 2020, ceasing to be a company. Its cash reserves were presumably distributed at that time. The Club does not appear, in either the 2019-20 or the 2020-21 accounts, to have received any money from that winding up. However, its balance sheet in 2019-20 did show a notional loss of £900k on its investment. Why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Perhaps someone with more of an accounting brain can help me with this… Partick Thistle Football Club Limited (the Club) owned about half of Firhill Developments Limited (PropCo). Firhill Developments Ltd sold its two main assets, the Main Stand and the Bing, to Three Black Cats in November 2019, for just shy of £2 million. The Club’s “share” of that was about half. Firhill Developments Limited was wound up in September 2020, ceasing to be a company. Its cash reserves were presumably distributed at that time. The Club does not appear, in either the 2019-20 or the 2020-21 accounts, to have received any money from that winding up. However, its balance sheet in 2019-20 did show a notional loss of £900k on its investment. Why? That’s a very good point. I’m sure the other shareholders in Propco got their share paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 58 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: So 3BC have denied (refused) due diligence. So what exactly are they trying to hide I’m sure you have lots of suggestions …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 31 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: "We asked for and were denied a formal process of Due Diligence." For me (and I'm glad I've held off from joining so far), if that is accurate, then maybe it should be enough to reach the decision not to touch the whole thing even with a barge pole. Simple question: Is there something (or multiple things) to hide? So let’s imagine fan ownership doesn’t go ahead …. The things that are apparently being hidden don’t go away … unless you think Colin weir was trying to pull a fast one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, javeajag said: So let’s imagine fan ownership doesn’t go ahead …. The things that are apparently being hidden don’t go away … unless you think Colin weir was trying to pull a fast one Going with reactions to the statement from our fan base on social media, I think your now in a very small minority believing there is no issue here. No one is saying Colin was pulling a fast one, far from it, but he sadly passed on 27 months ago so a lot has happened since then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 (edited) Reposted statement from Stuart Callison (I am not him) posted on one of the Thistle FB groups. Reposted from original source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2385307278369459 Quote "I think that having gone out on a limb to encourage people to join TJF, and especially now that my resignation has been made public, I should say here why I decided to leave the current Board of Directors. The text of my resignation letter follows and is I think fairly self explanatory - the stuff about diligence seems a bit boring and obscure but is actually critical. When this first came up, TJF were told that it was unnecessary, and that we would learn more by "working alongside" the current club board. 4 months later, you'll note from the TJF update that they are still having to rely on publicly available information on finances to ask questions. This is hopelessly inadequate for a number of reasons: published accounts are always out of date and do not explain the full picture, plus due diligence can and does uncover liabilities which even the Directors of a company may not have been aware of. I don't take back anything I said in previous posts: PTFC can and must be run better. Nor do I want anyone to cancel their membership, so long as they can afford it. Instead - stand for election and change the approach. Make this a genuinely representative fans group. And make clear that not one penny of members cash will go to the current club directors without a full and transparent accounting." "Dear All, On joining the TJF working party more than 2 years ago, I remember being quite clear on my objectives for the process, which were first to ensure that there was a full and independent review of the club's finances (diligence) before a fan organisation acquired ownership, and second, to secure a radical improvement in the club's overall management and governance through fan ownership. Perhaps rather too belatedly, I have reached the conclusion that little or no progress towards these objectives is going to be permitted. I also accept that the majority of Board members favour a different strategy, and so it is only right that I should step down. Although there have been some heated arguments over tactics, I say this without any rancour or bitterness, as things would have been very different if the current PTFC Board had shown any genuine willingness to engage with the process. I wish you well and am happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think there is any chance of being able to increase TJF membership significantly without being able to demonstrate more openness and transparency on the club's finances - particularly in such tough economic times - and so you will not be able to meet the hurdles being imposed by Ms. Low. From our very brief glimpse behind the curtain, I am more convinced than ever of the urgent need for a change of ownership, but we need to reconsider how this can be achieved. It is vital that in due course the fanbase comes together to pursue this goal, so I have no interest at all in pointing fingers or blaming other directors for trying to do their best, but I look forward to working with other independently minded Jags fans to promote a genuinely successful future for the club. Yours sincerely, Stuart Callison" From this it is clear, fan-ownership or not, it is time to put serious pressure on Ms. Low and Co. Edited March 27, 2022 by Yellow & Redneck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 Just now, Norgethistle said: Going with reactions to the statement from our fan base on social media, I think your now in a very small minority believing there is no issue here. No one is saying Colin was pulling a fast one, far from it, but he sadly passed on 27 months ago so a lot has happened since then So Jacqui low is trying to pull a fast one for reasons unspecified with zero evidence or detail to support it …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: So Jacqui low is trying to pull a fast one for reasons unspecified with zero evidence or detail to support it …. Read the resignation text above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, javeajag said: So Jacqui low is trying to pull a fast one for reasons unspecified with zero evidence or detail to support it …. She's certainly preventing a professional approach to this process by denying due diligence. We can only speculate as to why but in a scenario where the shares are being transferred for no consideration, then due diligence would be far more important to the "seller" as it gives independent evidence that all is how it should be. It seems very odd that she is refusing to allow it. It seems very odd that any Thistle fan continues to defend that position too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 To be honest I’m now of a view that the monty python aspects of all of this are exceedingly tedious …. Clearly fans can’t take over running the club so either give it to the jags trust, Jacqui low or accept the slow death …. Over and out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: To be honest I’m now of a view that the monty python aspects of all of this are exceedingly tedious …. Clearly fans can’t take over running the club so either give it to the jags trust, Jacqui low or accept the slow death …. Over and out Is that your Plan B? Pretty poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Ghost said: She's certainly preventing a professional approach to this process by denying due diligence. We can only speculate as to why but in a scenario where the shares are being transferred for no consideration, then due diligence would be far more important to the "seller" as it gives independent evidence that all is how it should be. It seems very odd that she is refusing to allow it. It seems very odd that any Thistle fan continues to defend that position too. Last comment dd is relevant if you are going to walk away from the deal … you can do anything you like after you own something ( that’s why some big deals are done without dd) so I don’t give it the importance others do.. but over yo you guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 Just now, sandy said: Is that your Plan B? Pretty poor. You have nothing to offer you don’t even have a plan A…. Anyway over to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 1 minute ago, javeajag said: You have nothing to offer you don’t even have a plan A…. Anyway over to you Oh really? I await your wisdom on next steps first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: To be honest I’m now of a view that the monty python aspects of all of this are exceedingly tedious …. Clearly fans can’t take over running the club so either give it to the jags trust, Jacqui low or accept the slow death …. Over and out It’s clear from both the resignation letter and TJF statement that the hurdle to fan ownership is not the fans, it’s Jacqui Low. Why she would not want to show the club is viable and ready for handover is beyond me but raises more questions than it does answers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: Last comment dd is relevant if you are going to walk away from the deal … you can do anything you like after you own something ( that’s why some big deals are done without dd) so I don’t give it the importance others do.. but over yo you guys Nonsense DD allows the members to know exactly what they are getting into and exactly where their subscriptions can be spent. Anything other than that is a derogation of duty towards its members and the club’s future as a whole. If an issue was found now rather than a bigger issue in say a year it can be addressed before it’s to far gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Nonsense DD allows the members to know exactly what they are getting into and exactly where their subscriptions can be spent. Anything other than that is a derogation of duty towards its members and the club’s future as a whole. If an issue was found now rather than a bigger issue in say a year it can be addressed before it’s to far gone. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Nonsense DD allows the members to know exactly what they are getting into and exactly where their subscriptions can be spent. Anything other than that is a derogation of duty towards its members and the club’s future as a whole. If an issue was found now rather than a bigger issue in say a year it can be addressed before it’s to far gone. Ffs your getting a £6m asset for nothing ! Unless you are going to walk away if you find something bad then when you find that something is really marginal . It’s really a bargain. if they want they can give it to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 26 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ffs your getting a £6m asset for nothing ! Unless you are going to walk away if you find something bad then when you find that something is really marginal . It’s really a bargain. if they want they can give it to me Craig Whyte got a £30 million asset for £1, look how well that went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Craig Whyte got a £30 million asset for £1, look how well that went Hilarious ! I will take the club for £1 problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Hilarious ! I will take the club for £1 problem solved I thought you were ‘over and out’ on this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 24 minutes ago, javeajag said: Hilarious ! I will take the club for £1 problem solved As long as your willing to personally guarantee any debt, liabilities or budget deficits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted March 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: As long as your willing to personally guarantee any debt, liabilities or budget deficits Absolutely …..as there is no debt…. but let’s assume £700k debt, budget deficit assume £300k and add in £1m for liabilities … so £2m worst case …. Asset £6m my cat can make that deal work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted March 27, 2022 Report Share Posted March 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: Absolutely …..as there is no debt…. but let’s assume £700k debt, budget deficit assume £300k and add in £1m for liabilities … so £2m worst case …. Asset £6m my cat can make that deal work One Black Cat? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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