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[Woodstock Jag]

3 hours ago, iain said:

In defence of 3bc why would they  want to hang on to the shares which have been bought for the fans. This is Thistle not Barcelona. I don't understand what they can get from this except a lot of grief.

Again, to re-iterate: Three Black Cats wholly own the Main Stand and City End, and the Club does not appear to have been remunerated for its share of the sale of those pieces of land to Three Black Cats.

So as things stand if, for example there were to be planning permission given for a major redevelopment that involved things being built on those pieces of land, and that redevelopment turned a profit (perhaps because it provided retail, hospitality or residential units which could be sold or leased) all the profits from that venture would go to Three Black Cats.

Three Black Cats also owns the majority stake in the Club.

So if, for example it were to want to carry out a more ambitious redevelopment of the site, perhaps leading to, oh I don't know, the total demolition of Firhill and us moving to another stadium, they could force the Club to sell up its land to such a project (perhaps even at a knock-down price) and leave it with insufficient capital to buy and build a replacement stadium. Perhaps it could even decide to build a stadium that Thistle are then forced to lease from them to have a functioning continued existence as a football club.

Three Black Cats is not Colin Weir. It is a legal entity held by his Estate and, bluntly, the beneficiaries of his Estate might have a different perspective about what to do with the inheritance with the passage of time.

Thistle's primary asset of note is its stadium. For some considerable time it only owned 3/4 of it, but at least it did own that and the sale of 1/4 substantially reduced its debt (and debt interest) before Weir won the Lottery. But now it owns half of its stadium, and one solitary shareholder has majority control over what is done with it.

Those dynamics, whatever the intentions of Three Black Cats, are not risk free, and make due diligence and transparency just as, if not more important, than if the Club were being sold for meaningful consideration.

[sandy]

Just now, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Maybe so. But he maybe has had the finance to worry about it. Will TJF have the finance to tackle any liabilities. I think not. Cash flow, all about the cash flow. Which, quite frankly, with Thistle it is a trickle rather than  a flow. And how on earth you can relate TJF to a multi billionaire is utterly staggering.

Indeed, it’s a false comparison.

And anyway, isn’t Warren Buffet what would be served at a rabbit party? 

[Garscube Road End 2]

2 minutes ago, sandy said:

Indeed, it’s a false comparison.

And anyway, isn’t Warren Buffet what would be served at a rabbit party? 

More rabbit that Sainsbury's??

[fifexile]

1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Even the seats that work? 

I emailed the club 3 times trying to get my seat fixed. They promised each time to have it fixed 'for the next home game' when it wasn't fixed at the 3rd time I opted to move my seat...not even close to the one I had which was almost in line with the half way line. Now nearer the 18 yard box. If the current regime can’t/ won't do simple maintenance  are they cutting every corner and dumping it all on the new owners? 

[eljaggo]

Could it be that there is an incentive for TBC to run down PTFC, wind up the business, and sell the stadium.  That seems to me to be the only logical reason for TBC's continuing interest in the club, and the reason behind non-dislosure of financial data to prospective new owners.

Is there legislation that enforces disclosure?

[Norgethistle]

1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Again, to re-iterate: Three Black Cats wholly own the Main Stand and City End, and the Club does not appear to have been remunerated for its share of the sale of those pieces of land to Three Black Cats.

So as things stand if, for example there were to be planning permission given for a major redevelopment that involved things being built on those pieces of land, and that redevelopment turned a profit (perhaps because it provided retail, hospitality or residential units which could be sold or leased) all the profits from that venture would go to Three Black Cats.

Three Black Cats also owns the majority stake in the Club.

So if, for example it were to want to carry out a more ambitious redevelopment of the site, perhaps leading to, oh I don't know, the total demolition of Firhill and us moving to another stadium, they could force the Club to sell up its land to such a project (perhaps even at a knock-down price) and leave it with insufficient capital to buy and build a replacement stadium. Perhaps it could even decide to build a stadium that Thistle are then forced to lease from them to have a functioning continued existence as a football club.

Three Black Cats is not Colin Weir. It is a legal entity held by his Estate and, bluntly, the beneficiaries of his Estate might have a different perspective about what to do with the inheritance with the passage of time.

Thistle's primary asset of note is its stadium. For some considerable time it only owned 3/4 of it, but at least it did own that and the sale of 1/4 substantially reduced its debt (and debt interest) before Weir won the Lottery. But now it owns half of its stadium, and one solitary shareholder has majority control over what is done with it.

Those dynamics, whatever the intentions of Three Black Cats, are not risk free, and make due diligence and transparency just as, if not more important, than if the Club were being sold for meaningful consideration.

This again is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. 
It was lauded from some factions when 3BC bought Propco, but that actually reduced Partick Thistle Football Club Ltd share of the ground.

 

[BowenBoys]

Playing Devil's Advocate, another possible scenario is that 3BC are fully committed to handing over the club to fan ownership but have no faith in TJF.

[scotty]

7 hours ago, BowenBoys said:

Playing Devil's Advocate, another possible scenario is that 3BC are fully committed to handing over the club to fan ownership but have no faith in TJF.

In TJF or the TJF board?

[BowenBoys]

31 minutes ago, scotty said:

In TJF or the TJF board?

Pure conjecture on my part. You decide.

[Jordanhill Jag]

10 hours ago, BowenBoys said:

Playing Devil's Advocate, another possible scenario is that 3BC are fully committed to handing over the club to fan ownership but have no faith in TJF.

This may be the case - however it doesn't prevent there being full disclosure on the Finances via Due Diligence  - in addition Im not seeing anyone on our Board that could not be replaced by Competent Individuals from our Fan Base  

The Jags Foundation Concept was pushed by the Board as the acceptable vehicle for Fan Ownership - it wasnt via the Fans - so the Board are in No Position to have No Faith in a Structure of there own making 

My View for what its worth - we are not in a Position for Fan Ownership ( Yet ) we however require a Half Way House of Thistle Fans with the expertise to run the Club and have a phased Handover to the Fans - this means 3BC are no longer in the mix or the Current Board - and having an interim  Board   - who will facilitate the Transfer of Power to an elected Board - reduces risk and allows TJF to build its membership 

[Lambies Lost Doo]

can we just get jaqui low to leave? she's a PR disaster.

[Garscube Road End 2]

30 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

can we just get jaqui low to leave? she's a PR disaster.

If only it was that easy.

[Woodstock Jag]

15 hours ago, BowenBoys said:

Playing Devil's Advocate, another possible scenario is that 3BC are fully committed to handing over the club to fan ownership but have no faith in TJF.

This would not, logically, justify them saying "we'll only give you the shares if you don't undertake due diligence" though.

It would justify them asking TJF to change personnel, policy or strategy before it was willing to enter into the later stages of handing over fan ownership.

[sandy]

22 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

This would not, logically, justify them saying "we'll only give you the shares if you don't undertake due diligence" though.

It would justify them asking TJF to change personnel, policy or strategy before it was willing to enter into the later stages of handing over fan ownership.

All in all, from the outside the ownership handover seems unnecessarily complicated and probably fraught with potential future costs. 
 

Unless Due Diligence is done, we should not take the deal on; we have to know what we are getting into here. Nobody would take on a house without a survey, not even Warren Buffet…

[sandy]

4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

My View for what its worth - we are not in a Position for Fan Ownership ( Yet ) we however require a Half Way House of Thistle Fans with the expertise to run the Club and have a phased Handover to the Fans - this means 3BC are no longer in the mix or the Current Board - and having an interim  Board   - who will facilitate the Transfer of Power to an elected Board - reduces risk and allows TJF to build its membership 

I think that’s an interesting idea JJ. Takes 3BC out and allows TJF to get up to speed. 

[javeajag]

Nice to see the emerging consensus that Jacqui low should continue running the club 

[ChiThistle]

What is the MBM Board Nominees Ltd entity affiliated with 3BC?  What do they actually do - maintain a roster of people to sit on the board of a 3BC owned company?

[javeajag]

6 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

What is the MBM Board Nominees Ltd entity affiliated with 3BC?  What do they actually do - maintain a roster of people to sit on the board of a 3BC owned company?

3BC own one company PTFC and 3BC have one Director Jacqui Low… you would think sometimes 3BC is some  corporate behemoth it’s  just our Chair who depending on your conspiracy ….

- wants to run the club down 

- wants to sell the ground 

- wants to remain chair forever 

- wants to hide lots of bad things 

- what ever else you think 

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, ChiThistle said:

What is the MBM Board Nominees Ltd entity affiliated with 3BC?  What do they actually do - maintain a roster of people to sit on the board of a 3BC owned company?

Not really answering your question, but the MBM part stands for Murray Beith Murray, a firm of solicitors in Edinburgh.

[eljaggo]

MBM Board Nominees Ltd is a dormant company and has been since 1995.

[sandy]

4 hours ago, javeajag said:

Nice to see the emerging consensus that Jacqui low should continue running the club 

The emerging consensus is let’s get DD done so there is transparency.
 

You might want JL to stay, but you are on your own with that one. 

[javeajag]

16 minutes ago, sandy said:

The emerging consensus is let’s get DD done so there is transparency.
 

You might want JL to stay, but you are on your own with that one. 

If you can find a post where I say that please post it … are you allowed to post without Norge’s permission ?! 

[sandy]

10 minutes ago, javeajag said:

If you can find a post where I say that please post it … are you allowed to post without Norge’s permission ?! 

Childish 

[javeajag]

18 minutes ago, sandy said:

Childish 

Possibly but fun 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

4 hours ago, sandy said:

You might want JL to stay, but you are on your own with that one. 

I don't think that'll be true, Sandy. JL's tenure is not a subject I've heard talked about on any match day recently. I'd put that down to neutrality, indifference, apathy or whatever rather than any particular support for her. At the very least I would imagine a significant amount of Jags fans hold no opinion or are undecided on the matter.