Standard of Scottish football

[Norgethistle]

8 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

So you would prefer to see the death of Scotland as a footballing nation? Absorbed into England (under the name of "Britain") is preferable? And somehow "Scottish" teams (if they would still be called that) would somehow lead to fewer of the same "English" teams dominating? How would that work, exactly? And you think fans would travel maybe 500 or 600 miles every second week to see Thistle in the middle of Tier 12 or 13, with the expenses that would occur? 

Maybe the British league could be regionalized, so that we'd then have.... wait for it.... a Scottish League system!

As for “dominating”

In last 25 years in Scottish football 2 teams have won the league. 

In England last 25 years there has been 10 different winners.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

33 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

As for “dominating”

In last 25 years in Scottish football 2 teams have won the league. 

In England last 25 years there has been 10 different winners.

You're spot on of course but the two club dominance is age old. Between 1904 and 1947 the Ugly Sisters won every single league title between them bar one (Motherwell circa 1930). Next 40 years (1948-88) EIGHT different clubs won the league title but it was largely only widely competitive in the years between !948 and 1965. So apart from that spell and those few years in the early 80s it's effectively been wall to wall Ugly Sisters for the last 120 years.

[Jaggernaut]

2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

I’d rather see Thistle compete in a less boring, less restrictive league with an opportunity of having a slightly fairer slice of the pie than what we have now. It’s always Club over Country. 
Crowds in English league 2 are as good as some in Scottish premiership.  Bigger leagues, home and away once. 
 

What we have just now isn’t working, 2 clubs are too powerful and the other 40 seem happy to accept the scraps in the hope those 2 will sell out one of their stands

Then the problem is those two clubs, who influence everything, including the league sizes and structure. They shape football in Scotland to suit their own aims. They would have nothing like the same influence or success if they were absorbed into the English leagues, and other Scottish clubs would have zero chance as well. 

Bigger leagues, home and away once, is how it was in Scotland for decades. Most people would like that to return; don't need to get absorbed in the lower English leagues for that to happen.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Jaggernaut

[Dick Dastardly]

9 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Then the problem is those two clubs, who influence everything, including the league sizes and structure. They shape football in Scotland to suit their own aims. They would have nothing like the same influence or success if they were absorbed into the English leagues, and other Scottish clubs would have zero chance as well. 

Bigger leagues, home and away once, is how it was in Scotland for decades. Most people would like that to return; don't need to get absorbed in the lower English leagues for that to happen.

 

10 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

You're spot on of course but the two club dominance is age old. Between 1904 and 1947 the Ugly Sisters won every single league title between them bar one (Motherwell circa 1930). Next 40 years (1948-88) EIGHT different clubs won the league title but it was largely only widely competitive in the years between !948 and 1965. So apart from that spell and those few years in the early 80s it's effectively been wall to wall Ugly Sisters for the last 120 years.

 But that is not unique to Scotland. Portugal, Greece and Holland have 3 clubs that completely dominate. Spain and Germany are hardly any better, while France is heading to a monopoly.

[Muscat Jag]

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

 

 But that is not unique to Scotland. Portugal, Greece and Holland have 3 clubs that completely dominate. Spain and Germany are hardly any better, while France is heading to a monopoly.

To some extent this cuts to the chase. The increasing uncompetitiveness (if that's an actual word) in football is a global phenomenon. In particular since the rise in televised live games in the late 80s, the rich have become richer and richer. It's a mix that leaves the Old Firm completely dominant domestically but with zero chance of being competitive against the Champions League elite. Certainly the days of Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in a European final are consigned to history. Leicester City are only real curveball I can think of in recent times. Paradoxically that's how much of the world likes it. And it's those people that are largely responsible for the huge amount of wealth in today's game. 

As an aside, I've racked my brain but can only come up with 6 teams that have been champions of England in the last last 25 years. Haven't looked it up so must be missing a few. 

[SteppsJag]

There’s only been 7 different winners since Premier League started in 1992.  Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Blackburn, Leicester, Arsenal. Man U have 13 wins.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

 

 But that is not unique to Scotland. Portugal, Greece and Holland have 3 clubs that completely dominate. Spain and Germany are hardly any better, while France is heading to a monopoly.

That's in a way what I was getting at but just not too au fait with other European leagues. My point being by and large we've always been dominated by these two clubs. Unfortunate as that is it's neither some new phenomenon or as you point out, hardly unique.   

In my lifetime we've always had poor, corrupt and/or self serving governance of our sport. That may be true elsewhere, but whilst every other club in Scotland may always be playing second  fiddle to these two vile "institutions" with some semblance of goodwill we can at least affect the way the game is governed.

Edited February 7, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Muscat Jag]

19 minutes ago, SteppsJag said:

There’s only been 7 different winners since Premier League started in 1992.  Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Blackburn, Leicester, Arsenal. Man U have 13 wins.

Yeah that's how I remember it. Pretty sure Blackburn's title was more than 25 years ago. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Muscat Jag

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, Muscat Jag said:

Yeah that's how I remember it. Pretty sure Blackburn's title was more than 25 years ago. 

I have not looked anything up, but i have a vague memory of Everton being champions, but could not say when.

[Duke Gekantawa]

10 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

I have not looked anything up, but i have a vague memory of Everton being champions, but could not say when.

1985 and 1987- none since then

[Dick Dastardly]

And Leeds won the last League before the Premier League, with the last English Manager to win it. Howard Wilkinson