Fawlty Towers Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 Was hoping to post this one after a victory but not to be. 10th March 2020 - Brian Graham heads in a 94th minute equaliser for a 1-1 draw against Dunfermline and then we don't play another match that season. We then start the 20/21 season in the third tier and come out on top, after a few bumps along the way. Now we sit 3rd in the Championship, with a game in hand on the top 2. I was wondering what others think - are we doing better than expected, worse or somewhere in the middle? Also, what stands out for you over this period? For me it has been how for the most part we have gotten right behind our club and team. Onwards and Upwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 Good levelling post. A year ago would have bite your hand off to be in this position. However just gets frustrating dropping 6 points in month to a bang average Morton team which reversed would have us a couple points off top with a game in hand. I suppose a fine line comparison would be Falkirk who were winning League 1 a year ago then blew it and as of todays defeat will actually struggle to make League 1 play offs. Just hoping we make play off and do a Livi. Joys of being a fan of the greatest team on earth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: Was hoping to post this one after a victory but not to be. 10th March 2020 - Brian Graham heads in a 94th minute equaliser for a 1-1 draw against Dunfermline and then we don't play another match that season. We then start the 20/21 season in the third tier and come out on top, after a few bumps along the way. Now we sit 3rd in the Championship, with a game in hand on the top 2. I was wondering what others think - are we doing better than expected, worse or somewhere in the middle? Also, what stands out for you over this period? For me it has been how for the most part we have gotten right behind our club and team. Onwards and Upwards. 1 minute ago, elevenone said: Good levelling post. A year ago would have bite your hand off to be in this position. However just gets frustrating dropping 6 points in month to a bang average Morton team which reversed would have us a couple points off top with a game in hand. I suppose a fine line comparison would be Falkirk who were winning League 1 a year ago then blew it and as of todays defeat will actually struggle to make League 1 play offs. Just hoping we make play off and do a Livi. Joys of being a fan of the greatest team on earth. Agree with both of these posts. When we got promotion last season, i was hopeful that we would have a comfortable season in the championship and not be bottom or near the bottom at anytime of the season, i thought if we managed the play offs that would be the best we would do. I think you have to take into account the difference in the amount of money the teams in the league would have. Taking into consideration we only got £150,000 when every other teams in the championship got £500,000. As i have said before the team that has really went against the odds is Arbroath and no matter where they finish in the league they have had a great season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 I’m very much of the opinion that we’re doing fine- I would have been happy enough with this position at the beginning of the season, and would have been ecstatic had this been offered with 9 or so games to go last season. Yes we’re frustrating still, and clearly don’t score enough. But we have a good spine to build on next season, assuming we don’t go up. And we might still go up this season- though probably only through the playoffs now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 I think it shows just how much we have improved not just from last season but over the previous 2 seasons that we are/were being quoted in the title race. For me we are in a race for one of the 3 play off places with Arbroath, ICT and Raith Rovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 If we win our game in hand, there may still yet be a twist in this division, especially as we have to travel to Rugby Park and I'm sure we'll take a massive support too. Other than winning the league, second place, with dare I say it, Killie winning the league, is probably the next best outcome. I feel we're just about on track for that. Would fancy us in a play-off against either of the other three teams around us and we'd take our chances against Dundee in the final. Like everybody else today, I could see us winning and closing the gap further on Tuesday.... then going to Rugby Park etc. etc. This however is Thistle we're talking about and despite the disappointment, we're not doing too badly at the moment. Win on Tuesday and Saturday and then away to Killie....... why do I do this to myself?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, CotterJag said: If we win our game in hand, there may still yet be a twist in this division, especially as we have to travel to Rugby Park and I'm sure we'll take a massive support too. Other than winning the league, second place, with dare I say it, Killie winning the league, is probably the next best outcome. I feel we're just about on track for that. Would fancy us in a play-off against either of the other three teams around us and we'd take our chances against Dundee in the final. Like everybody else today, I could see us winning and closing the gap further on Tuesday.... then going to Rugby Park etc. etc. This however is Thistle we're talking about and despite the disappointment, we're not doing too badly at the moment. Win on Tuesday and Saturday and then away to Killie....... why do I do this to myself?? Hi CJ, hope you are well, despite todays result. We have a game free midweek coming up. We play Hamilton next Saturday (19th March) at Firhill then Dunfermline away Tuesday 22nd March live on BBC Scotland KO 7-05 pm then Kilmarnock away 26th March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 I think we are moving in the right direction and whilst I think automatic promotion is probably too much to ask for I wouldn't discount our chances in the playoffs if we can finish 2nd. It looks like it will be St Johnstone or Dundee in the playoffs and neither look very good. Dundee only have 2 strikers and one of those can't play against us. St Johnstone have only scored 18 goals in 30 games. If we don't get promotion this season I don't think the squad needs major surgery. If we can get Mayo back the defence is pretty much ok. Midfield is ok bar adding someone more adept at playing wide right. Up front is where we do have some work to do. We need at least 2 new starting strikers as Graham will not be able to do as many minutes next season. We will also need at least one winger but probably two. Be really surprised if Tiffoney is with us next season if we are in the championship and he is the one player we would struggle to replace. If we do get promotion then we will require a bigger turnover of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 We should never have been in the position we were when the 'covid' season was called. That set us back a full season and if you are talking about a progression, then last season should have been in the Championship, not League 1 and we probably would have been stronger this season and genuine prospects of winning the title instead of scrapping for play offs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Auld Jag said: Hi CJ, hope you are well, despite todays result. We have a game free midweek coming up. We play Hamilton next Saturday (19th March) at Firhill then Dunfermline away Tuesday 22nd March live on BBC Scotland KO 7-05 pm then Kilmarnock away 26th March. Hi AJ, all well thanks. Yes, I did check the fixtures after my post and can see the order of play now. Let's hope Killie is a big game. Considering staying up for the Killie game as was up for the Scotland game with my Brother and Nephew - they need to get back. Who knows if there will be a friendly at Hampden that night. I hope so. Hope you're keeping well. Cheers CJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 23 minutes ago, CotterJag said: Hi AJ, all well thanks. Yes, I did check the fixtures after my post and can see the order of play now. Let's hope Killie is a big game. Considering staying up for the Killie game as was up for the Scotland game with my Brother and Nephew - they need to get back. Who knows if there will be a friendly at Hampden that night. I hope so. Hope you're keeping well. Cheers CJ. Hi CJ, all well here thanks. I think i seen something about Scotland trying to get a friendly against Poland on the 24th. Nothing confirmed yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Auld Jag said: Hi CJ, all well here thanks. I think i seen something about Scotland trying to get a friendly against Poland on the 24th. Nothing confirmed yet though. Only Poland and San Marino don't have a game in the whole of Europe around that time. Poland have agreed in principle but we both want to be the home team. Not sure which way it will go but Poland at Hampden would be a good friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Out Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 The last two years, two days and the bit before can be summed up in one word ...... FRUSTRATION As @Garscube Road End 2 says "We should never have been in the position we were when the 'covid' season was called". There were so many opportunities missed to avoid being in bottom place and a disastrous January transfer window that saw results decline are s much to blame for our relegation as any covid vote. If we hadn't been relegated, which was avoidable, would we be happy with a 3rd place and pretty much out of contention for the title in what must be the poorest Championship for many years ? Then there was the League One season. Yes we won the title, but so much of that season was complete dross. Were we not 5th and going nowhere when the season was halted ? The post break run and Falkirk collapse appears to have glossed over what was in the main a pretty awful season. And then again this year where we have shown in glimpses what we can do (Hamilton away), but far too often produce dire performances like yesterday. Is it just once in the last 11 games that we have scored more than a single goal ? This league was here for the taking. Kilmarnock are not a good side. Arbroath are part-timers and the rest are just awful. It should have been in the bag way before now and for second time you have to question McCall's January transfer activity. The final frustration is that after 2 and a half years in charge, McCall has not managed to address the imbalance in the side. Yes he has moved it, but on here we have been calling it out ever since he arrived, but it has never been addressed. It should not be that after this time, we completely fall apart as an attacking threat when one player is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted March 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 One thing I should have added in the first post was that I got the info from a very good page on twitter called Partick Thistle On This Day - so thanks to them and keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 13 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: We should never have been in the position we were when the 'covid' season was called. That set us back a full season and if you are talking about a progression, then last season should have been in the Championship, not League 1 and we probably would have been stronger this season and genuine prospects of winning the title instead of scrapping for play offs. We probably were genuine prospects if it wasn’t for all the call offs in January and having to catch up on in a short space of time. The state of Firhill hasn’t helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 hours ago, McCall Out said: The last two years, two days and the bit before can be summed up in one word ...... FRUSTRATION As @Garscube Road End 2 says "We should never have been in the position we were when the 'covid' season was called". There were so many opportunities missed to avoid being in bottom place and a disastrous January transfer window that saw results decline are s much to blame for our relegation as any covid vote. If we hadn't been relegated, which was avoidable, would we be happy with a 3rd place and pretty much out of contention for the title in what must be the poorest Championship for many years ? Then there was the League One season. Yes we won the title, but so much of that season was complete dross. Were we not 5th and going nowhere when the season was halted ? The post break run and Falkirk collapse appears to have glossed over what was in the main a pretty awful season. And then again this year where we have shown in glimpses what we can do (Hamilton away), but far too often produce dire performances like yesterday. Is it just once in the last 11 games that we have scored more than a single goal ? This league was here for the taking. Kilmarnock are not a good side. Arbroath are part-timers and the rest are just awful. It should have been in the bag way before now and for second time you have to question McCall's January transfer activity. The final frustration is that after 2 and a half years in charge, McCall has not managed to address the imbalance in the side. Yes he has moved it, but on here we have been calling it out ever since he arrived, but it has never been addressed. It should not be that after this time, we completely fall apart as an attacking threat when one player is missing. Aside from your obvious dislike of McCall their are 2 points in this post that to me are mainly irrelevant:- Arbroath being part time is irrelevant.Every team is part time. Full Time players might only have the one job, but it doesn’t necessarily make them better or fitter players. Even although Falkirk collapsed, we had to go from nowhere to win the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 In my mind one of our major deficiencies has been constantly playing an imbalanced side and related to that, a lack of width. Our over reliance on Tiffoney causes the imbalance as there's nobody to mirror him on the other flank. In saying that I'm assuming McAlister is proving no improvement on Hastie. Having to play Smith, Crawford or Turner out of position usually results in an insipid performance with little happening down the non-Tiffoney wing. That and having no overlapping attacking fullbacks emphasises that lack of width. Wasn't paying too much attention but yesterday it looked like Hendrie was the latest recruit to the wide midfield. Above is obviously a negative but in a way it can be turned more positively, in so much as we've maybe done better than we should with makeshift formations. Playing an orthodox back four with two advanced forwards, which we've done on numerous occasions, effectively requires wide midfielders and attacking full backs. Yet we've had many a decent result regardless. Much of that can be put down to a splendid attitude throughout the squad. McCall has to take credit for instilling that thru his man-management and his signings of players with good attitude. The other side of the coin I feel is that we're well into the last quarter of the season and we're still kinda experimenting with both formation and personnel. Some of that I admit could be argued from a "horses for courses" point of view but mostly I believe down to not having an overall game plan with regards to formations and recruitment.. I think we'll make the play offs and accept that was arguably our target this season. If we get there we'll probably fall short of winning thru. If we did gain promotion I reckon it would be largely down to that excellent attitude throughout the squad. Sadly, to sustain a top tier position I imagine much of the squad wouldn't be around to enjoy the fruits of their labours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 I get the theory of the points that @McCall Out and @Garscube Road End 2 are trying to make i.e. relegation should have been avoided in 19/20 and we would be a year closer to the return to the premier league however I'm not sure it would have worked out that way. Personally I thought the demotion we suffered was an injustice enforced by load of panic stricken clubs desperate to get their hand on prize money without any consideration for those negatively impacted. I also believe that if the season had finished we would have caught Queen of the South. If you consider the refereeing mistake to revoke a legitimate penalty in the 0-0 game at Firhill was the difference between demotion and staying up there really wasn't a huge gap. However since the season we were relegated from the premier through until McCall took over we were a club that being poorly run, poorly managed and with a playing squad full of mentally weak sub-standard players. We were a club in need of a clear out from top to bottom. Of the squad that played in 19/20 only Brownlie, Graham, Bannigan, Cardle, Penrice, Gordon, Rudden, Williamson, Sena and Sneddon played a part in our league 1 campaign. You could perhaps add Docherty who was already confirmed on a PCA in the January window. However Williamson, Sena, Gordon, Cardle and perhaps Penrice wouldn't have featured in 20/21 if we were in the Championship as they struggled at that level. Rudden and Sneddon would arguably have not got the same amount of games to develop and may not have progressed. So in reality the manger only had Brownlie, Graham, Bannigan and Docherty able to cope with championship level football. That would have meant a huge recruitment of players for the championship as opposed to big recruitment players for league 1. To my mind its entirely possible that the season in league 1 brought us back in better footballing shape than a season in the championship would have. You can add other sliding door moments to this. For example we probably don't sign Tiffoney if we are in the championship. He was really an alternate to signing McDaid and because league 1 had a longer shutdown than championship clubs we couldn't get McDaid and took a chance on Tiffoney. The loss of income from not being in the Championship and particularly the £500k covid grant is most definitely a disadvantage and perhaps the decision to groundshare was based on closing that financial gap. However of the teams in the championship in 19/20 only 1 other team bar us still has the same manager (Dick Campbell). Of the teams in this season's Championship only Campbell and McGlynn at Raith have longer tenures than McCall. That suggest to me that a lot of clubs weren't happy with their fortunes and perhaps back by the covid money decided on changing manager that hasn't really brought a massive change in fortunes. So perhaps the financial advantage is nearly closed due to other clubs miss-management? If we don't get promoted I don't think we need a clearout. Maybe 4/5 signings with slightly more leaving than coming in to secure a bit more quality than quantity. Apart from loans ending Sena, Lyons, Murray, Mciver, Gordon, Bell and Hendrie are all likely to leave which will free up wages. One of the things we as a club don't particularly well is upgrade our managers should a better option become available or a new talent emerge. We assume it was loyalty to Archie that kept him in post in January of 2018 but it may just have been that we hadn't prepared an alternative. When we binned Archie in 18/19 we appointed a charlatan like Caldwell because again we hadn't prepared. However at the moment I can't see anyone better than McCall and the job he has done so far has been decent. If he gets to the premier this season he's more than earned his keep but equally if he gets us to the playoffs he's earned the right to start the next campaign as our manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: Aside from your obvious dislike of McCall their are 2 points in this post that to me are mainly irrelevant:- Arbroath being part time is irrelevant.Every team is part time. Full Time players might only have the one job, but it doesn’t necessarily make them better or fitter players. Even although Falkirk collapsed, we had to go from nowhere to win the title. Part- Time teams usually work twice a week in the evenings Full time teams should have an obvious advantage working on their fitness every day and the management working on shape and tactics every day . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 47 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: In my mind one of our major deficiencies has been constantly playing an imbalanced side and related to that, a lack of width. Our over reliance on Tiffoney causes the imbalance as there's nobody to mirror him on the other flank. In saying that I'm assuming McAlister is proving no improvement on Hastie. Having to play Smith, Crawford or Turner out of position usually results in an insipid performance with little happening down the non-Tiffoney wing. That and having no overlapping attacking fullbacks emphasises that lack of width. Wasn't paying too much attention but yesterday it looked like Hendrie was the latest recruit to the wide midfield. Above is obviously a negative but in a way it can be turned more positively, in so much as we've maybe done better than we should with makeshift formations. Playing an orthodox back four with two advanced forwards, which we've done on numerous occasions, effectively requires wide midfielders and attacking full backs. Yet we've had many a decent result regardless. Much of that can be put down to a splendid attitude throughout the squad. McCall has to take credit for instilling that thru his man-management and his signings of players with good attitude. The other side of the coin I feel is that we're well into the last quarter of the season and we're still kinda experimenting with both formation and personnel. Some of that I admit could be argued from a "horses for courses" point of view but mostly I believe down to not having an overall game plan with regards to formations and recruitment.. I think we'll make the play offs and accept that was arguably our target this season. If we get there we'll probably fall short of winning thru. If we did gain promotion I reckon it would be largely down to that excellent attitude throughout the squad. Sadly, to sustain a top tier position I imagine much of the squad wouldn't be around to enjoy the fruits of their labours. Just to develop the lack of width theme. What most bemuses me is that, whilst the success of McCall's Ayr team a few seasons back was mainly credited to Shankland, my own view is that he benefitted from 2 very good attacking full backs (Smith & Harvie). I'm not saying Williamson & Penrice were at a similar level but I don't think we have adequately replaced them. I don't enjoy highlighting players' deficiencies but I've never understood some posters' 'love in' with Foster. Can't fault his commitment but the number of mistakes he now makes is a real concern. Yesterday was not his finest 90 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Part- Time teams usually work twice a week in the evenings Full time teams should have an obvious advantage working on their fitness every day and the management working on shape and tactics every day . I accept the shape and tactics bit, but it is only an advantage if the players are better at taking it in, which isn’t a given just because you are full time. The part time players don’t need to go to team training to get fit. I am sure there are gyms where they live. It’s a bit harder for them if they have families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: I accept the shape and tactics bit, but it is only an advantage if the players are better at taking it in, which isn’t a given just because you are full time. The part time players don’t need to go to team training to get fit. I am sure there are gyms where they live. It’s a bit harder for them if they have families. There are no part time teams in any of the top 4 (possibly 5) Leagues in England. I don’t see many getting to the later stages of the Champions League, so clearly being full time has an advantage. That we have a part time team as the 14th best in Scotland should be an embarrassment to all the full time clubs below them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 What bothers me most is that after 2 1/2 years of McCall there is not a single team in the championship that we would be confident of beating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: There are no part time teams in any of the top 4 (possibly 5) Leagues in England. I don’t see many getting to the later stages of the Champions League, so clearly being full time has an advantage. That we have a part time team as the 14th best in Scotland should be an embarrassment to all the full time clubs below them. And there wouldn’t be in Scotland either if there was more money in the game, but has no bearing on the points made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Lenziejag said: And there wouldn’t be in Scotland either if there was more money in the game, but has no bearing on the points made So. If Thistle were to go part time, do you think that would be a good or a bad thing for ambitions of getting to the Premier League ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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