Championship side, championship manager

[Thistle88]

Bannigans had one good game this season at Firhill and he was immense, can’t remember who it was against but he was brilliant. That game aside, I’ve found him slow, unable to carry the ball and no longer goes in for 50/50 balls

Banzo was at his best when he could bring the ball from deep and link up on the left with our left back and left winger. His relationship with Lawless and ATS was great.His Energy, running power and ball winning when we were first promoted was why bigger teams were wanting to sign him before his knee injury.

He’s always going to be one of my favourite players regardless of how much he has Regressed but it’s now time where he has no right to be in the starting 11 and his game time should be based on his performance level !

Docherty has had quite bad reviews this season but he’s had a far better season than Bannigan.  He has limited ability but never shirks a tackle always available to the ball, and he actually stepped up with goals at that end of the season when we were majorly struggling for them. 
 
Feel like he’s been over criticised this season and he would certainly be In my first 11 going forward.

[MonehJags]

Our performances away from home was just as bad so the pitch excuse doesnt hold up.

Bannigan is still relatively young, in fact he should be at the peak of his career, but his legs have gone. Slow to react, ponderous on the ball, weak in the challenge, its not there for him anymore, and its sad to see.

ETA

Bring back Jackie McNamara, all is forgiven

 

  

Edited May 9, 2022 by MonehJags

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Re Bannigan and I'm not making a point for or against but I'm sure it's significant that he went thru the entire season playing 46 games without picking up even one solitary card. For a central midfielder that must be verging on the unique. Last season he only received two  yellows. I can't remember for certain but I seem to mind he was warned about his disciplinary record after receiving his second red card v Morton a couple of seasons ago. 

Clearly Banzo doesn't make the tackles he used to and clean tackling was never his forte. Perhaps he should've been deployed further up the pitch and his form in that position would determine whether he started or not?   

Edited May 9, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jaggy]

I thought he was yellow carded in a recent game, can’t remember what  game though. Maybe QOS away?

[sandy]

Our manager has rewarded Banzo’s loyalty to the Club with lots of game time. Which is fine, provided he is playing well. But what happens if a player maybe drops off a bit, can the manager evaluate that objectively?

Team selections & positions are to some extent a subjective art. Which leads me nicely to Turner. I’ve probably banged his drum a fair bit this season, but when he was finally played in central midfield at Inverness I think he showed what he is capable of.  

I’d build a new midfield around Turner for 2022-23. There, I said it  
 

[Thistle88]

3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Re Bannigan and I'm not making a point for or against but I'm sure it's significant that he went thru the entire season playing 46 games without picking up even one solitary card. For a central midfielder that must be verging on the unique. Last season he only received two  yellows. I can't remember for certain but I seem to mind he was warned about his disciplinary record after receiving his second red card v Morton a couple of seasons ago. 

Clearly Banzo doesn't make the tackles he used to and clean tackling was never his forte. Perhaps he should've been deployed further up the pitch and his form in that position would determine whether he started or not?   

You never see a lack of Effort from Bannigan I always feel like he puts everything in, I think the tackling is a mental thing to be honest. Picked up the worst injury a football can probably get and I reckon it plays on his mind. Having said that he is so slow now, his passing ability is the only thing he has going these days.

[Thistle88]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

Our manager has rewarded Banzo’s loyalty to the Club with lots of game time. Which is fine, provided he is playing well. But what happens if a player maybe drops off a bit, can the manager evaluate that objectively?

Team selections & positions are to some extent a subjective art. Which leads me nicely to Turner. I’ve probably banged his drum a fair bit this season, but when he was finally played in central midfield at Inverness I think he showed what he is capable of.  

I’d build a new midfield around Turner for 2022-23. There, I said it  
 

I thought he was unjustly left out the team for a long period of the season(Turner). On his day he can Run the game easily, would be good to see him bulked up a bit after pre-season.

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, Thistle88 said:

You never see a lack of Effort from Bannigan I always feel like he puts everything in, I think the tackling is a mental thing to be honest. Picked up the worst injury a football can probably get and I reckon it plays on his mind. Having said that he is so slow now, his passing ability is the only thing he has going these days.

The ICT game at Firhill seemed to pass him by, but he seemed to me to be the only player in the team that could shield the ball from the opposition and almost always found a Thistle player with his pass.

[Thistle88]

33 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

The ICT game at Firhill seemed to pass him by, but he seemed to me to be the only player in the team that could shield the ball from the opposition and almost always found a Thistle player with his pass.

But I feel that’s as much as he offers now?  Can’t carry it, when we lose it he can’t get back because he’s slow. And like I said I think he’s scared another tackle will end his career.

We can’t progress with a one footed good passer in midfield. We need more, and this is why I feel like Doc has been criticised more than he should have. Doc can tackle he can pass the ball well and he scored 6 goals last season ..  He isn’t perfect but he offers a bit of everything!

[Hopeless Unbeliever]

Bannigan's issue is he needs able and willing runners, give him runners and he will find them over and over. He also retains possession exceptionally well. I saw mention on here that Docherty is a better passer which is outrageous. He's better at quite a few things but passing is absolutely not one of them.

Our issue this season is that our team has no discernible shape. We have Tiffoney on one wing who wants the ball into feet (understandably) and given the chance to go one on one with the full back. Without a marauding left back/left sided midfielder though he is always going to get doubled up on, even more so when we don't have any viable alternative on the opposite side of the pitch. Compare Bannigan's frontline in 12/13 when he had Erskine, Lawless and Doolan constantly moving and creating space, with ATS and O'Donnell supporting and taking advantage of that space. This season we've (typically) had Foster and McKenna as full backs, with Tiffoney/Graham/Smith up front (Rudden was the one guy who really moved to make space). He also has a midfield that is not especially mobile going forward, particularly in terms of providing width. I do think he has regressed in the defensive side of his game a little in recent years but that's probably understandable.

I think if McCall can get the shape right next season, and the indications so far are he sees us going forward with a 3-5-2, that there is still a central role for Bannigan to play.

[Lenziejag]

10 hours ago, Thistle88 said:

But I feel that’s as much as he offers now?  Can’t carry it, when we lose it he can’t get back because he’s slow. And like I said I think he’s scared another tackle will end his career.

We can’t progress with a one footed good passer in midfield. We need more, and this is why I feel like Doc has been criticised more than he should have. Doc can tackle he can pass the ball well and he scored 6 goals last season ..  He isn’t perfect but he offers a bit of everything!

Maybe Bannigan has lost something. However, we have lost games this season more often than not because we have given the ball away too easily - again looking at ICT’s winner at Firhill, it started with a loose ball/heavy touch from Docherty.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

14 hours ago, Hopeless Unbeliever said:

Bannigan's issue is he needs able and willing runners, give him runners and he will find them over and over. He also retains possession exceptionally well. I saw mention on here that Docherty is a better passer which is outrageous. He's better at quite a few things but passing is absolutely not one of them.

100% agree. In fact some fans get miffed with Bannigan for holding onto the ball too long when he's ensuring he'll make an accurate pass.

Docherty & Bannigan individually or as a pairing aren't a major concern. I do tho' feel that signing an Osman style defensive mid and freeing the pair to play further up the park is a strong option. It may mean less overall game time for them but a price worth paying. Another option if we sign a right wingback is to go with three at the back. That effectively negates the need for an Osman type of player.  

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

100% agree. In fact some fans get miffed with Bannigan for holding onto the ball too long when he's ensuring he'll make an accurate pass.

Docherty & Bannigan individually or as a pairing aren't a major concern. I do tho' feel that signing an Osman style defensive mid and freeing the pair to play further up the park is a strong option. It may mean less overall game time for them but a price worth paying. Another option if we sign a right wingback is to go with three at the back. That effectively negates the need for an Osman type of player.  

If we did go for 3 at the back, presumably with Milne as left wingback, where does that leave Tiffoney ? Could he play more central, in front of Doc/Banzo ? In which case, where does Turner fit in ?

[laukat]

Its quite an interesting stat about the number of bookings Bannigan has this season. One of the deficiencies in Bannigan's game was his tackling was poor and led to too many yellows and red so perhaps he has deliberately changed his game?

I do think we overplayed Bannigan this season. 35 games is quite a lot for a guy that's main strength is the amount of running he does.

Both Bannigan and Docherty will be 30 next season. I believe we need to start to build the midfield around younger players. Turner and Crawford fit most of that bill bit the shape of our midfield and what we need alongside them will be dictated by the team formation we play

If we are going to stick with the 4-3-3 then we require a bigger physical presence sitting in behind. However if we are going for 3-5-2 then potentially less of a need for another midfielder assuming we can sign a central defender who is capable of stepping into midfield.

So if we sign a right wingback and get Mayo back then we are probably covered for midfielders should Crawford sign. If not then we could do with an Abdul Osman type.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

If we did go for 3 at the back, presumably with Milne as left wingback, where does that leave Tiffoney ? Could he play more central, in front of Doc/Banzo ? In which case, where does Turner fit in ?

Good points. You can still have width to accommodate Tiffoney, perhaps in a sort of 3-4-3 but we're back to the same problem of fitting in all these central midfielders.  Smith, Crawford, Turner, Bannigan & Docherty. I just don't think Banzo & Doc give adequate midfield cover to a back four. One doesn't tackle and the other loses the ball a bit too often.  But they are imo our best midfielders. Guess in that 3-4-3 I'd have one striker (Graham/Dowds) supported by Turner & Tiffoney.

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Good points. You can still have width to accommodate Tiffoney, perhaps in a sort of 3-4-3 but we're back to the same problem of fitting in all these central midfielders.  Smith, Crawford, Turner, Bannigan & Docherty. I just don't think Banzo & Doc give adequate midfield cover to a back four. One doesn't tackle and the other loses the ball a bit too often.  But they are imo our best midfielders. Guess in that 3-4-3 I'd have one striker (Graham/Dowds) supported by Turner & Tiffoney.

The more I think about it, the more I think that accommodating Tiff and Turner at the same time in any formation is the problem.

With your 3-4-3, it would have Turner on the right, which we know doesn't work. The missing piece is the holding midfield hatchet man who could release all of the central midfielders to roam forward. Obviously we need a rightback, but a 4-1-3-1-1, with Tiff playing behind the striker and given freedom to go down the left, right or centre would make it hard for teams to double up on him, and allow the host of central midfielders more freedom to play their natural game.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Dick Dastardly