Woodstock Jag Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiThistle said: Reading through it, I think St. Mirren’s version of “fan-owned but not fan-run” seems a reasonable model for Thistle. Maybe a few changes, such as number of appointees and such, should be tweaked for our specific situation but I like the framework. I thought the “catering to OF traveling support” (my words, not yours) bit was a very relevant example of the kind of collaboration that would be good for our version of this model. I’d be interested in learning more about how they “phased in” this model - certainly it wasn’t a flip of a switch with an immediate, total, director regime change. Thanks again for all your efforts. Appreciate the communication. As we indicated in the piece, we agree that each club should have an arrangement that suits its specific circumstances. As it points out, we have never asked for majority representation on the Club Board at Thistle, for example. As for the question of "phasing in" the journey to fan ownership at St Mirren was slightly different, in that they already held a significant minority shareholding before partnering up with an external investor to acquire an additional stake. So they already had two directors on the St Mirren Board before becoming the majority shareholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 Its perfectly reasonable to accept that a club that is fan owned appoints a board of directors and ceo to run the club who are not simply ‘fans’ though there may be fan representative(s) on the board to link back to the fan body. The board are then composed of the skills necessary to run a football club. but thats not exactly quantum physics is it ? More like stating the sensible obvious. the more subtle issue is that who owns the club appoints the board and thereby controls the club and here I worry that TJF 2 board is following in the footsteps of TJF 1 Board in bending over backwards not to upset 3BC which didn’t work first time round and looks like might not work this time either. what is actually required is for our dearly loved chair to tells us the fans what she wants, what us acceptable and what is not…..if she doesn’t want fan ownership based in a fan based organisation can she just tell us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 Here's a personal piece from board member Andrew Holloway, giving his perspective on why the Foundation is important and why he got involved. Worth a read while demolishing a Solero this afternoon! https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/why-tjf-andrew-holloway/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcia blaine Posted July 19, 2022 Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) On 7/17/2022 at 8:19 PM, denismcquadeno.eleven said: You’ve “never asked for majority representation on the Club Board at Thistle” yet 3BCs/PTFC are rejecting your ‘overtures.’?!! Surely, majority representation is essential. Maybe, I’ve totally misjudged TJF and this whole project. I would certainly not feel happy leaving JL and her cronies in control at PTFC and if that is the scenario at the end, it would to me, be a very disappointing one. I think the key word is “majority”. Having 3 TJF reps on aboard of 6 (ETA: for example) wouldn’t be a majority but would be in keeping with the 55% stake that’s being proposed. Edited July 19, 2022 by marcia blaine Added “for example” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: Very good piece written by Andrew Holloway, who seems a very nice guy and a good one to have in the TJF leadership. However, I am sorry he feels, as apparently, some others do on the TJF board, that they do not wish to be on the PTFC board or would be less than comfortable in that role. (I don’t see it in terms of ambition for TJF members.) I still feel there must be a number of TJF members on the PTFC board and I would suggest a majority, to ensure the whole ‘project’ is not weakened right at the start, and grounded before it’s taken flight. Reasons: a) The present PTFC board has been together for some time, and their ‘mindset’ (certainly re TJF) has appeared entrenched, (I think that’s fair to say!). b) If they accepted some TJF members-those willing to do it, who have suitable-crossover skills, knowledge from previous experience(s), plus a good amount of common sense and a willingness to ‘learn’ on the job (Isn’t this what new directors of a football club have to have anyway if they’ve never done it before?) I don’t see why they couldn’t do it. And, this would give encouragement to supporters knowing their representatives were there. c) It would also CRUCIALLY send a ‘signal’ which is really what we’re all hoping for, that things have moved on, we can put the past disagreements, unhelpful comments and ‘statements’ in the past, and move forward together, to hopefully a brighter, better future with a new way of doing things. I have tried to be as positive as I can in what I’ve said above, particularly not being too negative, regarding the current PTFC board. But, if that board stayed in situ, intact, I would have grave doubts about the future regarding fan ownership at Firhill. ‘Jags For Change’ must MEAN something, and those with power at the club now, need to be aware of that, conciliatory now and act on it in good faith (IMO). They need to show they’re prepared to give something of themselves towards this process. It cannot all come from compromises made by TJF. Others will have their own and maybe very different views, to which they’re entitled. You are mixing the Foundation board and Operating (Club) board, if Andrew (like me) is not in this to get a seat on the club board but to get the shares transferred over, and allow the TJF to help nominate or approve other nominees to club board who have the inclination/talent/time/patience/skills to run the day to day business (operations) of the club. Shareholders set direction of a business by either backing boards or adding or replacing members of operating board as needs or performance dictates. I want every fan to join, to add their voice not only to the push for share transfer but to aid the Foundation board going forward with there views and backing (or otherwise) via board elections etc Out of interest have you joined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: 55% is greater than 45%, so if TJF have (hypothetically) the greater shareholding, there should not be a stalemate when it comes to a six-member board. But, it may be completely immaterial because, looking at what we’ve been told on here recently and in AH’s statement, it seems as if TJF may want to leave the current PTFC board in place (which is presumably what JL/3BCs/present board wants.) My own view is that would be a mistake and I wonder if that is what most members of TJF or even other supporters who are not members-and might have eventually considered joining- were hoping for. He does not state that, he states continuity is important in ALL business during any transition. All boards, whether PTFC or Jags Foundation should be elected and re-elected by its members or shareholders, that would be based on skills, performance and willingness (of board member to stand again). This is standard practice, no board changes all the time and no board lasts forever they transition over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: Yes, I see the difference, since you have told me that the current TJF board is for negotiating purposes (to get the majority shareholding) only. And, I have always said on here that accountability means those on the board have to be re-elected periodically. But, I don’t understand why members of the TJF negotiating team, couldn’t include others who are prepared to go on the PTFC board, if they were elected. Surely what they would learn in discussion/negotiation with the PTFC board would help equip them later if they went on to the PTFC board? It’s not for that reason only, but it’s the primary role. The negotiation team just happens to have members who do not want to be on a CLUB board, I am no sure if many of the 9 would want to be on a club board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) To Norge and/or Woodstock Jag Firstly congrats re helping growing the membership of TJF. Reaching over 600 in a rather short period of time is impressive. What within myself I don't understand is why any Jags fan would NOT want to join. I'm excluding totally financial reasons. Becoming a fan owned (fan run?) club is as far as I can see written in stone. Even if you hold different views (a political party would refer to this being a "broad church") surely if you're a Jags fan you're still better off inside the tent pissing out? I was wondering if those charged with recruitment have turned things on the head and been collating info regarding reasons Jags fans that HAVE'NT joined to date? My own past experience in another life tells me that there'll be a fair sized contingent in the "broadly agree, but wait to see what happens contingent". Obviously a serious target group for recruitment. I'm sure within the 600+ there'll be fans like myself wishing to convert those swithering on joining. What would be useful would be if someone in the recruitment side of TJF could in time provide a list of the reasons given by fans for NOT joining immediately, and as importantly the TJF counter arguments to those reasons. It would be helpful to us laypeople to be able to sing from the same hymn sheet when trying to get Jags mates and acquaintances to join up. Think that's me used up my weekly allowance of figures of speech in one post Edited July 20, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 Very good points m’lady. Overwhelmingly the main reasons people have cited for not joining are: (a) scepticism about fan ownership as an idea (b) scepticism about whether it is a financially viable way forward for Thistle (c) uncertainty about what it means for the governance of the Club (d) a desire only to join when it’s clear that the Foundation will in fact be the chosen entity to receive the shares and/or it has actually assumed them You’ll have seen that we’ve made conscious efforts to address the positive case for fan ownership as an idea (creating a fan and community centred club that listens and responds to fan priorities). On sustainability, I would simply point out that the Foundation has a solid and growing base of paying members, and raises more than The Well Society did on a monthly basis around the time Motherwell became fan owned (off an admittedly slightly smaller but rapidly growing membership). On governance, this is exactly why we’ve been seeking to educate fans about the other fan ownership models: showing that business experience and fan representation aren’t incompatible and actually mutually reenforcing. And on the fourth limb, the “wait and see” contingent, we’ve been looking at ways to make the Foundation a coming together of the fans that is more than just about the shares, but also a belonging to a special community. That’s what underpins the McParland Pin, the social events and other things we have in the pipeline. There is no silver bullet on this, and I know there are also a non-trivial group of fans for whom they want to join but in the current economic climate feel unable to. That is something we have been working on and we want to get that balance right. But our message to fans is clear: if not now, when? This is an opportunity to build a fan ownership model to be proud of and the Foundation is bigger than any other Thistle fan group has ever been. This is our chance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 20, 2022 Report Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Thanks, Woodstock, for a most comprehensive reply. I've copied and pasted this. Edited July 20, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 21, 2022 Report Share Posted July 21, 2022 COLLECTION OF MCPARLAND PINS - SATURDAY 23rd JULY v MONTROSE Pleased to say that the McParland Pins are ready for collection before Saturday's game against Montrose. We will have a stall in both the Jackie Husband Stand and the John Lambie Stand. Please come and say hello to the (still new!) board members. If you're a member and haven't yet filled in the form for the McParland Pin, please check your email, as a reminder was sent out this evening. The form is how we are keeping track of who has and hasn't claimed a pin, to make sure that all eligible members definitely get one! More information here: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/collect-your-mcparland-pin-on-saturday/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: COLLECTION OF MCPARLAND PINS - SATURDAY 23rd JULY v MONTROSE Pleased to say that the McParland Pins are ready for collection before Saturday's game against Montrose. We will have a stall in both the Jackie Husband Stand and the John Lambie Stand. Please come and say hello to the (still new!) board members. If you're a member and haven't yet filled in the form for the McParland Pin, please check your email, as a reminder was sent out this evening. The form is how we are keeping track of who has and hasn't claimed a pin, to make sure that all eligible members definitely get one! More information here: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/collect-your-mcparland-pin-on-saturday/ I would love a McParland pin but I can’t pick up in person, and I missed my window of opportunity for family to bring it to me. And I don’t want to saddle TJF with postage costs. Is it possible to make an arrangement to PayPal someone to mail it to me? Fifth class, delivered by a Valkyrie riding a winged beast, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 3 hours ago, ChiThistle said: I would love a McParland pin but I can’t pick up in person, and I missed my window of opportunity for family to bring it to me. And I don’t want to saddle TJF with postage costs. Is it possible to make an arrangement to PayPal someone to mail it to me? Fifth class, delivered by a Valkyrie riding a winged beast, whatever. ChiThistle are you a member if so fill in the form and we can sort something out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 As Norge says as long as you’re among the first 600 active members you’re entitled to it. Just fill in the form we sent the email link to and make sure to include your membership number. It’s our thank you to you. If you want to make a contribution to the postage for yours you can donate on the website using the donate page. And if need be we can charter one of Lambie’s pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 Will we need to quote our membership number to collect pins tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, scotty said: Will we need to quote our membership number to collect pins tomorrow? If possible make sure you have it (if you’ve forgotten it when registering we’ll have sent an email reminder). We will have a list of those who have completed the form at each stall, but the membership number helps to make sure we don’t mix up people with the same name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Thank you to everyone who came to collect their McParland Pin today! It’s been really great for the new board to get a chance to engage with fans face to face. Remember the BBQ next weekend at BrewHaus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Very impressed with D McP badge. Thanks.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Thanks for the badge, excelent! Sorry I got in just before ko so never had time to chat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted July 24, 2022 Report Share Posted July 24, 2022 Badge fab thanks and good to see leaflets re Foundation being handed out. Hopefully be a few more sign ups in coming weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) Morton have been fan owned for a bit now so it is interesting to see how they are finding things. Given they have at the moment 850 season tickets (we have double that) it is good going to have 950 members of their ownership group (we have less than 650). Obviously though they have had longer to build that so I don't want to sound like I am being critical of TJF plus we have had a few more issues to deal with than they did. Their most recent update does show the difficulties clubs will be facing at the moment, particularly those without the backing of a wealty benefactor. Hopefully we will get a positive update from TJF in the near future. https://www.gmfc.net/gmfc-board-update/ Edited July 27, 2022 by Fawlty Towers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 5:43 PM, Woodstock Jag said: Thank you to everyone who came to collect their McParland Pin today! It’s been really great for the new board to get a chance to engage with fans face to face. Remember the BBQ next weekend at BrewHaus! Hoping the pigeon carrying my badge hasn’t got lost over Harthill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 21 hours ago, sandy said: Hoping the pigeon carrying my badge hasn’t got lost over Harthill We're hoping to get the first batch of pins "for delivery" out some point in the next week or so. We'll send an email confirmation out to each who opted for this when we've done that. One trip to the Post Office instead of 80! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 On 7/27/2022 at 9:07 PM, Fawlty Towers said: Morton have been fan owned for a bit now so it is interesting to see how they are finding things. Given they have at the moment 850 season tickets (we have double that) it is good going to have 950 members of their ownership group (we have less than 650). Obviously though they have had longer to build that so I don't want to sound like I am being critical of TJF plus we have had a few more issues to deal with than they did. Their most recent update does show the difficulties clubs will be facing at the moment, particularly those without the backing of a wealty benefactor. Hopefully we will get a positive update from TJF in the near future. https://www.gmfc.net/gmfc-board-update/ I was genuinely surprised at the season ticket number at Cappielow. I thought it would be at least 50% or so higher. The perspective of a lot of their fans on P&B is very interesting (for those who frequent there). The vast majority of them seem to be of the view that, while fan ownership presents its own challenges, they went into it eyes wide open as to those risks. They embarked on it in the knowledge that their fan ownership journey only really took off because there was no white knight ready to swoop in and continue funding them in the way the Raes had done for so many years. I know, from speaking with a friend and colleague who is a Morton fan, that when MCT were given access to the books, energy costs (for the floodlights) at Cappielow were a major expense, and that was well before the Ukraine/Russia war caused a spike. Businesses are even less well protected against price increases at the moment than residential properties, and it's going to cause really acute problems for a lot of football clubs. At least during the Covid pandemic the levels of support were substantial and available pretty much across the board. I don't think this cost of living crisis will be quite so forgiving, and the cashflow problems clubs largely coped with then could start causing real problems in the next couple of years, especially outside of the top flight. From the outside looking in, Morton's communications are to be commended for their candour, though with such a small season ticket base and an ageing stadium it's not surprising that the current climate is especially unfavourable to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: To Woodstock Jag I put this question up yesterday, but you must have missed it when you visited and answered two questions from other posters last night. Could you provide an answer? There isn’t a definitive date for the next update yet. As I’ve stressed before we won’t be giving a running commentary on the state of play with discussions while they are ongoing. If we’ve got key dates or milestones confirmed we will communicate them to members. If we don’t, we won’t! Edited July 29, 2022 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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