The Jags Foundation

[ChiThistle]

So frustrating, all of this.  It seems clear that 3BC’s (and supposedly, by proxy, Colin Weir’s) vision of fan ownership was considerably watered down from the get-go, at least in comparison to publicly known domestic fan ownership schemes.

Sincere thanks to the TJF boards for their time spent on this, especially given that the outcome always seemed to be certain from 3BC’s point of view.

Unless some more viable fan group emerges (or merges?) in the future, I’m pretty happy with the efforts of TJF and plan to stick around and continue contributions if I feel they will be put to good use.

[MarciaBlaine]

16 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

So frustrating, all of this.  It seems clear that 3BC’s (and supposedly, by proxy, Colin Weir’s) vision of fan ownership was considerably watered down from the get-go, at least in comparison to publicly known domestic fan ownership schemes.

Sincere thanks to the TJF boards for their time spent on this, especially given that the outcome always seemed to be certain from 3BC’s point of view.

Unless some more viable fan group emerges (or merges?) in the future, I’m pretty happy with the efforts of TJF and plan to stick around and continue contributions if I feel they will be put to good use.

Colin Weir specifically mentioned the Well Society model when he bought the shareholding https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-statement-9/

[watties wallies]

reading the JFC  document again , my gut feeling is that this deal with another outfit has been done a wee while ago

3BC have kept us hanging out there waiting for the right time to pull the pin on any future discussions

season ticket money has been banked 

we have been taken for mugs

just when the team is beginning to some promise on the park our chair puts the boot in

we now have well over 600 signed up members, jags fans. all of us

lets all stick together and see this through

as others have said not a penny more from me

I'm so bloody angry the way 3BC have behaved towards our JFC  board

and finally remember this, it was our chair that appointed gary caldwell and allowed the numptie to show Kris Doolan the door

i'm away to lie down  

 

 

 

 

[MarciaBlaine]

1 minute ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Quote

“TBC will gift the 55% shareholding that it has acquired directly to a new fan shareholding entity currently being developed, based on the Well Society model at Motherwell FC. To allow fans time to get the preferred structure in place with the support of the Thistle fanbase, the shares will be held by TBC then transferred to fans no later than the 30th March 2020.”

Brilliant find MB! 

It was magsb1109 on Twitter who unearthed it. Does seem like something of a smoking gun!

[Fawlty Towers]

Article here:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20613143.partick-thistle-fans-left-dark-fan-ownership-saga-rumbles/

 

[Norgethistle]

2 hours ago, Mr Scruff said:

Done.  I need to put my money into something Thistle related....

Excellent thanks 

[Dougall]

Thanks to all those involved in the Jags Foundation for their efforts and openness which is in complete contrast to the Board/3BC/ Jacqui Low/the future recipients of the shares.

Count me in as another who has just signed up for the foundation.

 

[eljaggo]

I really appreciate the effort that TJF board have made in dealing with that pair of charlatans, and the well written account of the whole sorry saga.  Although it appears that the shares will not be going their way, they have created an organisation that may yet prove influential in the running and ownership of the Club and has united a large proportion of Partick Thistle fans - something that has not happened since the Save the Jags campaign.  This story has not ended.

[avie-man]

better be a good 'un they have picked as the preferred bidder

i suspect however jacqui will still have her fingers in the pie in some way, i smell a rat.

Edited August 9, 2022 by avie-man

[joekea]

I posted back in April that she may have been taking us for mugs. I was proved correct.....I said at the time if she did,  then I would not renew my season ticket. She timed it well!
I still think they are covering up for something with the no DD and the new preferred share puppets.

[avie-man]

does anyone know if the current "fan" directors are involved in an alternative bid as part of team low? these people have been very very quiet

[JAG1970]

“3BC has never provided a satisfactory response to TJF’s grievances and multiple interview requests from Herald and Times Sport have been turned down.

Until 3BC deign to shed a little light on the situation and provide an alternative version of events, it is supporters – the very people at the heart of the whole issue – who are being left in the dark.

Three Black Cats has been approached byHerald and Times Sport for a response to Tuesday's statement from The Jags”

good to see Low ever true to her promise from years ago about regular and strong “communication” with the fans. A charlatan! 

[Norgethistle]

27 minutes ago, avie-man said:

does anyone know if the current "fan" directors are involved in an alternative bid as part of team low? these people have been very very quiet

No one knows except 3BC.

For fan ownership to actually be “Fan” ownership it needs fans to be informed, engaged and onboard.

The Jags Foundation has all of these (Plus raising over £70k a year that could supplement existing budget) with over 640 (and rising) active members, the biggest fan organization in recent history at the club, it keeps its members informed, we all have faces and bio’s for all to see. 

To date the rival “preferred” party (to my knowledge) has no membership, no engagement, no names associated with it.

Transparent & Dynamic Vs Who knows

 

All will be apparent by next Friday and maybe we’ll get a pleasant surprise as fans and if so I’m sure the Foundation would be more than willing to work with them going forward, or maybe we won’t get what we thought we were getting.

Time will tell, and I’ll keep an opened mind till then, but The Jags Foundation is not going away, we plan to continue to grow to give our membership a real voice going forward. 
 

[avie-man]

1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

No one knows except 3BC.

For fan ownership to actually be “Fan” ownership it needs fans to be informed, engaged and onboard.

The Jags Foundation has all of these (Plus raising over £70k a year that could supplement existing budget) with over 640 (and rising) active members, the biggest fan organization in recent history at the club, it keeps its members informed, we all have faces and bio’s for all to see. 

To date the rival “preferred” party (to my knowledge) has no membership, no engagement, no names associated with it.

Transparent & Dynamic Vs Who knows

 

All will be apparent by next Friday and maybe we’ll get a pleasant surprise as fans and if so I’m sure the Foundation would be more than willing to work with them going forward, or maybe we won’t get what we thought we were getting.

Time will tell, and I’ll keep an opened mind till then, but The Jags Foundation is not going away, we plan to continue to grow to give our membership a real voice going forward. 
 

is it unrealistic to think it isn't a fan...perhaps someone originally from the local area or a loose fan who has done well in business?  i.e. willie haughey at qp, its his local team but we all know he isnt really a queens park fan

seems to be absolutely no sign or trace of any alternative fan proposal.

[Third Lanark]

6 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:

I see that the successful bidder is crawling into the light before the ICT match. It'll be interesting to see Low's preferred partner. It seems to me predjucial to kill off the TJF bid, whilst still in legal negotiations with the supposed successful choice. 

As Devil's Advocate, what if by some quirk those legal negotiations fail?  I know  that is extremely unlikely,  but  in real life it would be a possibility.  Also strange that even clubs like Morton get a weekly 5 figure sum from their members, but our club is so sure of success that the Board can knock back a similar(& rising) sum? TJF members sure won't be dipping in their pockets for this venture - or do we get the "Time to move on for the club" routine. Forgive my cynicism. 

Like many others, thank you from the bottom of my heart to all of the TJF office bearers who devoted so much time and effort for the good of our club.

On holiday for a few days up north but completely agree.  Also absolutely flabbergasted that the extra £60,000-£70000 potentially raised by TJF can he dismissed so easily by Low.  Since when can any championship club dismiss a financial input like that.  Just beggars belief.  Though that’s even surpassed by the way those from TJF have been treated with contempt by the Chair and Shand 

[Rid Skwerr]

That's me and Lady Skwerr joined TJF.

Finally pushed over the edge by the atrocious treatment meted out by the 3BC twats.

 

[Norgethistle]

33 minutes ago, avie-man said:

is it unrealistic to think it isn't a fan...perhaps someone originally from the local area or a loose fan who has done well in business?  i.e. willie haughey at qp, its his local team but we all know he isnt really a queens park fan

seems to be absolutely no sign or trace of any alternative fan proposal.

I suppose anything is possible, but that would not really be Fan Ownership but a Fan who is the owner 

[elevenone]

This whole sorry episode from 3BC beggars belief and stinks to the high heavens.  The thorough and well written response from TJF hits the nail on the head perfectly.  The level of contempt shown by Low and her cronies to all the folk involved with TJF and the work put in and compromises given is jaw dropping as is the disregard to a decent (640 and counting) amount of our support who are contributing financially in these difficult times.  

The vagueness, lack of clarity and smoke and mirrors nonsense from 3BC’s shows the charlatans involved in our club.  They must know who their preferred option is yet leave everyone in the dark.  I really think they have underestimated the support here and are not only turning their noses up at an organisation who would be fitting the model they claimed to have wanted (and would be bringing in 75k+ annum) too but are prepared to take the anger of fans and withdrawal of financial supports be it cancellations of jagzone, centenary fund, hospitality, sponsorships, pie stalls and merchandise etc.  A major own goal.  The current board do not deserve us.

[sandy]

2 hours ago, elevenone said:

This whole sorry episode from 3BC beggars belief and stinks to the high heavens.  The thorough and well written response from TJF hits the nail on the head perfectly.  The level of contempt shown by Low and her cronies to all the folk involved with TJF and the work put in and compromises given is jaw dropping as is the disregard to a decent (640 and counting) amount of our support who are contributing financially in these difficult times.  

The vagueness, lack of clarity and smoke and mirrors nonsense from 3BC’s shows the charlatans involved in our club.  They must know who their preferred option is yet leave everyone in the dark.  I really think they have underestimated the support here and are not only turning their noses up at an organisation who would be fitting the model they claimed to have wanted (and would be bringing in 75k+ annum) too but are prepared to take the anger of fans and withdrawal of financial supports be it cancellations of jagzone, centenary fund, hospitality, sponsorships, pie stalls and merchandise etc.  A major own goal.  The current board do not deserve us.

Well said @elevenone

[scotty]

Low, 3BC, the "fan directors" and probably even the other members of the board must be worried. They have managed to create a potential PR (as well as in other ways) disaster. A large well-organised section of the fan-base have been upset and angered.

It will take a turnaround of incredible proportions to rescue this situation. I just can't see how they are going to get themselves out of this mess. One way would be for them to replicate the work and effort TJF have put in over the last years, organise a democratic fan-based movement,  present it to the fans and then convince them it's a good thing for Thistle.

Cannae see it myself.

[sandy]

41 minutes ago, scotty said:

Low, 3BC, the "fan directors" and probably even the other members of the board must be worried. They have managed to create a potential PR (as well as in other ways) disaster. A large well-organised section of the fan-base have been upset and angered.

It will take a turnaround of incredible proportions to rescue this situation. I just can't see how they are going to get themselves out of this mess. One way would be for them to replicate the work and effort TJF have put in over the last years, organise a democratic fan-based movement,  present it to the fans and then convince them it's a good thing for Thistle.

Cannae see it myself.

Nope, it ain’t going to happen. The likely ‘PTFC Trust’ solution is already discredited. 3 anonymous existing Club Board ‘fan directors’ who have done nothing over the past 2 years to engage with fans. And a ‘membership’ of ST holders only by default.

It is a PR disaster. But worse than that, it’s widened the us and them divide. If we go down the route of ‘not a penny more’ until something changes, then it’s going to be a long slog. But something has to be done to force change. 

It makes me grateful for the work that David Beattie, Billy Allan and the previous Club Board did to get the finances of the Club relatively straightened out. Now, without any form of due diligence, goodness knows what lies beneath the surface as the shares are gifted to some random group of fans. 

History will not judge the current Club Board regime kindly. This is surely not what Colin Weir would have wanted? 3BC have tarnished his legacy.

[sandy]

One thing to bear in mind, is that this Forum probably only has about 5% of the fan base as active members/posters. Our views could be easily dismissed as a minority.

Thats where the power of having TJF kicks in, with 640 members and rising. That is not a small minority of fans. Let’s get the membership upwards towards 1,000 if we can. Once it nears the number of Season Ticket holders, we cannot be dismissed so easily.

Final point for this morning, why are 3BC so intent on re-creating the fan representative model that already exists with the work TJF have done? That’s just plain stupid. Do they really propose to unveil an anonymous set of fans who will now go about re-inventing the wheel? What a monumental waste of time & effort when TJF could have received the shares this month and hit the ground running.

Edited August 10, 2022 by sandy
typo, Owen Coyle somehow crept into the text

[eljaggo]

Pound to a pinch of salt that it will be the PTFC Trust named as share recipients.  Low appointed Caldwell and Byron to the PTFC board from the Trust, and thus set things up to allow her to retain control through these compliant and beholden individuals while at the same time appearing to meet the terms of the Weir will.  I hope that I am wrong.

[Derby Jag]

I'm led to believe I am a member of the PTFC Trust due to being a season ticket holder for a good long while.

I, and I believe I am not alone in this, have had zero communication from them either to say I am a member or update of any kind.

Should they be the party gifted the shares is there anything as members we can do? Do we have power to call EGM, force elections, anything at all? If not, why not? 

[Lenziejag]

49 minutes ago, sandy said:

One thing to bear in mind, is that this Forum probably only has about 5% of the fan base as active members/posters. Our views could be easily dismissed as a minority.

Thats where the power of having TJF kicks in, with 640 members and rising. That is not a small minority of fans. Let’s get the membership upwards towards 1,000 if we can. Once it nears the number of Season Ticket 

I think this is the point. TJF has 640 members. There were almost 2,800 jags fans at Firhill on Saturday. The perception of the 3BC and PTFC Board will be that TJF is still small fry. You have a lot of work to do.