eljaggo Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 30 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I think this is the point. TJF has 640 members. There were almost 2,800 jags fans at Firhill on Saturday. The perception of the 3BC and PTFC Board will be that TJF is still small fry. You have a lot of work to do. Not sure what more can be expected of TJF, Lenziejag - they have over 770 signed up members that is equivalent to over 25% of the fans you mention. They are by far the biggest fan group, but you cannot deal rationally with those who have a secret agenda. What work do you suggest they now do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, eljaggo said: Not sure what more can be expected of TJF, Lenziejag - they have over 770 signed up members that is equivalent to over 25% of the fans you mention. They are by far the biggest fan group, but you cannot deal rationally with those who have a secret agenda. What work do you suggest they now do? I don’t know. Have a bit of realism. They were well and truly outmanoeuvred by 3BC. What is the appetite for fan ownership? Are they flogging a dead horse ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Derby Jag said: I'm led to believe I am a member of the PTFC Trust due to being a season ticket holder for a good long while. I, and I believe I am not alone in this, have had zero communication from them either to say I am a member or update of any kind. Should they be the party gifted the shares is there anything as members we can do? Do we have power to call EGM, force elections, anything at all? If not, why not? I think it might be helpful to get the whole PT trust looked from a legal and governance perspective if they turn out U.K. be the entity getting the shares they have been inactive publicly for two years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 UPDATE ON MEMBERSHIP We now have more than 650 members. Thank you to everyone who has supported us to date and to our new members. It is so heartening to see Thistle fans back us and our approach. Today we have launched a new introductory discounted rate of membership. For the first year, people can join for £1 per month. This is intended to make sure that the cost-of-living crisis does not prevent Jags fans from getting involved and having their say. Read more here: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/join-the-jags-foundation-today-for-1-per-month/ To members: please keep your subscriptions going. Our collective power to fundraise already has pledges of over £70kpa. If we can grow that to a six figure sum, it will be harder and harder for 3BC to ignore what the fans want. To those who haven't joined yet: please get on board. We are the largest ever Thistle-membership-based group. We are the vibrant and engaged group actually engaging with fans. But we need your help. The sign-up form has been updated to reflect the new rate: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/sign-up/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Derby Jag said: I'm led to believe I am a member of the PTFC Trust due to being a season ticket holder for a good long while. I, and I believe I am not alone in this, have had zero communication from them either to say I am a member or update of any kind. Should they be the party gifted the shares is there anything as members we can do? Do we have power to call EGM, force elections, anything at all? If not, why not? This is what I was getting at earlier. I'd say it's fair to assume that at the given time the number of adult ST holders of 2 or 3 years standing will have been over 1000. They can on a technical basis lay claim to be representing those "members". I've never contacted them to tell them they don't represent me. So maybe it's akin to the new organ donor thingy, based on assumption? I'll be even angrier with them if 3BC refers to this Trust membership caper in any form. I don't know if you can withdraw your membership of this Trust but gut instinct tells me not to. It could be case of a tent and urination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I think this is the point. TJF has 640 members. There were almost 2,800 jags fans at Firhill on Saturday. The perception of the 3BC and PTFC Board will be that TJF is still small fry. You have a lot of work to do. 2800 included away fans and Under 16’s who can’t be members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 For clarity there is no such thing as a "member" of the PTFC Trust. You can't "join" it. You can't "quit" it. There are only beneficiaries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: 2800 included away fans and Under 16’s who can’t be members. I had deducted the 100 odd Hamilton support, but take your point on under 16’s. However, I don’t think the perception will be different from 3BC and PTFC Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just signed up. I was always very lukewarm about fan ownership, but recently have come around, although had doubts. This latest outrage has pushed me into the fan ownership camp. The present custodians of the club are, in opinion, bringing the club into disrepute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: For clarity there is no such thing as a "member" of the PTFC Trust. You can't "join" it. You can't "quit" it. There are only beneficiaries. I think if they are the entity it would be useful to explain what it is, how it works and how it’s run etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Like GRE2, I have joined today. I too had reservations about fan ownership, particularly in relation to financing long term asset replacement (main stand etc). However the duplicitous Low has persuaded me that the Club is unsafe in her control. In my opinion TJF should now make every effort to recruit as many season ticket holders as possible so that in the (likely) event that Low gives the Weir shares to the Trust, TFF have the moral high ground in any future episode. That may not count for much with someone like Low, but it maybe the best option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 44 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: Speaking to you as you are a TJF board member, can I ask for your thoughts on how we address this point about those amongst the Thistle fanbase who, haven’t joined TJF a) because they don’t currently support Fan ownership b) don’t like the idea but prefer to follow PTFC board’s lead, or c) those who seem to be ‘sitting on the fence’ at the moment? How best to reach out to these ‘groups’? How do we know when we’ve more or less reached our ‘ceiling’ in terms of recruitment and have to accept it’s not going to fluctuate very much lower or higher than that? * We are actively trying to get more to get onboard, and to help with this in the current cost of living crisis, we’ve launched the £1 a month membership for those that find the £10 too much to afford, as we need football and the foundation to be inclusive of all, regardless of personal circumstances. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/join-the-jags-foundation-today-for-1-per-month/?fbclid=IwAR1LecGA0dOBpKA6FJGPj8Em1lg1gdOCFeenErQubFuDIZ3D8ADz-3QJkII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander livingstone Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Joined the Foundation today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think if they are the entity it would be useful to explain what it is, how it works and how it’s run etc It bears repeating, but the Club website discloses the existence of three Supporters' Trustees on the PTFC Trust. Normally these are supposed to be elected. But none of those were. They were co-opted appointments. No PTFC Trust elections have taken place since (if my memory serves) 2018. It has conducted no meaningful social media activity since before the pandemic. The other three trustees are Club Board appointments. At the last check, they are the Chief Executive, Andrew Byron and Alan Caldwell. The latter two were originally elected to the PTFC Trust Board (I believe most recently in 2018) but are now there in a different capacity. They have also been on the Club Board, as Three Black Cats appointees, since late 2019. For the avoidance of doubt, no Club Board members, bar Jacqui Low, have corresponded with The Jags Foundation at all since we became Directors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Surely there’s a meaningful legal case based around Colin’s wishes and 3BC’s interpretation of those wishes and what constitutes a fan-ownership model? Be interesting to ask TJF members, of which I’ll be one tomorrow, if they’d be happy for their subs to help fund this. I’ll also be cancelling Jagzone and emailing Gerry as to why tomorrow. Well done to all on TJF for their sangfroid in dealing professionally with what was obviously a particularly unprofessional process without stabbing anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggyben Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Hi just joined up says no 804 so hopefully a few are joining 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Here’s the mysterious Mr Shand https://www.murraybeith.co.uk/news-press/news-press/the-scotsman-multiple-benefits-of-setting-up-a-family-trust-or-foundation.html And oh lordy the irony: ”However, Scots-born Carnegie sounded cautionary notes about money and giving, in an article The Gospel of Wealth written in 1889. He warned those inheriting vast wealth frequently squandered their fortune on “riotous living”. He also counselled against leaving a fortune to charity, as there was no guarantee it would be used wisely. He worried that there was no certainty a charitable organisation would use the money in an acceptable way for the donor and for what he/she wanted to achieve.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I don’t know. Have a bit of realism. They were well and truly outmanoeuvred by 3BC. What is the appetite for fan ownership? Are they flogging a dead horse ? I don’t agree it’s flogging a dead horse at all. It’s just that 3BC did not deal with TJF on the level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, javeajag said: I think if they are the entity it would be useful to explain what it is, how it works and how it’s run etc You should email them to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: For clarity there is no such thing as a "member" of the PTFC Trust. You can't "join" it. You can't "quit" it. There are only beneficiaries. For those of us of a certain vintage like @Garscube Road End 2, we can remember the lyrics to Hotel California by the Eagles. "You can check-out any time you like""But you can never leave!" I can’t join without a Season Ticket so I can say what the f**k I like; the PTFC Trust cannot represent me. Edited August 10, 2022 by sandy added a sweary word 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Just signed up. I was always very lukewarm about fan ownership, but recently have come around, although had doubts. This latest outrage has pushed me into the fan ownership camp. The present custodians of the club are, in opinion, bringing the club into disrepute. Good to see there is life in the old dog yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 59 minutes ago, sandy said: For those of us of a certain vintage like @Garscube Road End 2, we can remember the lyrics to Hotel California by the Eagles. "You can check-out any time you like""But you can never leave!" I can’t join without a Season Ticket so I can say what the f**k I like; the PTFC Trust cannot represent me. The issue is it’s not inclusive of all who want to be part of it, if you can’t afford a season ticket for 3 seasons in a row your not part of it, also you may be a season ticket holder of many years but want nothing to do with it, only way to leave is not renew your season ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The issue is it’s not inclusive of all who want to be part of it, if you can’t afford a season ticket for 3 seasons in a row your not part of it, also you may be a season ticket holder of many years but want nothing to do with it, only way to leave is not renew your season ticket Aye. I used to have a ST when my daughter was young enough to come with me. Haven’t renewed. Yet I put in £500-£1000 in player sponsorship each year. That doesn’t give me a voice tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delurker Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Many thanks to the TJF board for all their efforts. Having read the full account in your document, I'm disgusted by how you've been treated. Imperative that as many fans as possible join TJF, I'll be keeping up my subscription and will try to get to the EGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The issue is it’s not inclusive of all who want to be part of it, if you can’t afford a season ticket for 3 seasons in a row your not part of it, also you may be a season ticket holder of many years but want nothing to do with it, only way to leave is not renew your Edited August 10, 2022 by Garscube Road End 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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