Yellow & Redneck Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Just now, denismcquadeno.eleven said: I don’t know why…but..I feel a grin ..coming on! No…better not! Are you smiling Redneck, or your little chum?!!! I'm trying to make a serious point as to the integrity and general behaviour of one or more of those on the PTFC Trust (you can see Twitter or FB for a copy of the sleazy comments - there is no need to repost here) So please, take the chip off your shoulder and step away from the computer for 5mins. This weird obsessive behaviour isn't healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 These guys in The Trust. I don't doubt they are Jags fans but ffs. Have a total lack of self-awareness and cannot read the room. Baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, stolenscone said: Hi - if you read my post, I have said that all trustees owe certain legal duties to the beneficiaries of the trust that they represent. It would be for a beneficiary (a qualifying season ticket holder) to raise a legal action personally against a trustee who they thought was acting in breach of their legal duties as trustees. Speaking of trustees, I see that there is an almost entirely new set of names at at end of the Trust's statement today. Did I fall asleep and miss ANOTHER set of elections? Mr Stolen Scone. This is very helpful. I happen to be a solicitor, but I do not specialise in either trust or litigation law, so I cannot make any informed or sensible statement on such matters. However, I have heard of such things as "class actions". Would it be possible for a large number of season ticket holders (as a class) to come together (or conjoin or whatever the word is) to give added strength in numbers to an action raised by one representative beneficiary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: When I posted a steam/comment on this site criticising 3BCs/PTFC board earlier this week, your response was, ‘why had I chosen to set up a new stream ?’ and then your pal followed you on in quick succession with a grinning face. You were taking the …. out of me and having a laugh at my expense. Now you, suddenly want to be all serious about what I have been warning was going to happen all along. And, to boot, you think I’d ever follow any of your ‘advice’?!! What pal are you talking about.? Do you think we are all in cahoots on here, coordinating and planning our responses? I simply said that there was no need to create (or rename) threads constantly when the topic has already been covered. It's nice to have the discussion in the same place as opposed to all over the place. So stop taking this all so seriously. For the sake of everyone else on this forum I'm not going to engage with you anymore. Nothing personal. I'm sure you're a lovely bloke. But the back and forth is tiring enough for me, never mind anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 The JLow trust statement is misleading , contradictory and extremely disingenuous to say the least. I’d love to know how these guys got into a position to represent me without my knowledge. If there is no way to change them then they represent themselves and no one else, and whatever else that is it’s nit fan ownership. as a side comment all being white middle aged men is depressing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag49 Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 @ptfctrust In the interests of openness and transparency,I am sure that all season ticket holders would appreciate more information regarding the individual trustees,when they were elected,how long is their term of office and the process and timing of future elections lets see the response we get !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators admin Posted August 17, 2022 Administrators Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: Well, back and forth…is really what taking part on a site like this is all about. And, I never said you were in cahoots with “all” on here. I said, that you wrote your first comment, another guy immediately put up the smiling face. Then the next post you made, the same guy just happened to be on the spot, to quickly put up the same smiling face. But, putting all that aside perhaps, if you engage with others, talking about WHAT they’re saying, whether you approve of it or not, is better than making comments about where they’re putting it. After all, how many other posters on here, have you pointed out they should be posting elsewhere? And, how many others, have you pointed out you’re the only one commenting on their posts, implying no-one else is interested. I think what you’ve been doing is currently called, ‘gaslighting’-look it up if you’re still in the dark (pun intended!) Please Stop. Signed - Frustrated of Admin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 42 minutes ago, partickthedog said: Mr Stolen Scone. This is very helpful. I happen to be a solicitor, but I do not specialise in either trust or litigation law, so I cannot make any informed or sensible statement on such matters. However, I have heard of such things as "class actions". Would it be possible for a large number of season ticket holders (as a class) to come together (or conjoin or whatever the word is) to give added strength in numbers to an action raised by one representative beneficiary? Since (I think) 2020, it has been possible to raise what are commonly called "class action" claims in Scotland. It's not my area of expertise, but I understand that it can only be done at the moment on an "opt in" basis - in other words, people need to choose to be part of the group action (rather than a body raising an action and members of that body needing to formally opt out of proceedings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/20667930.partick-thistle-fan-ownership-announcement-met-angry-reponse-supporters/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 minute ago, BowenBoys said: https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/20667930.partick-thistle-fan-ownership-announcement-met-angry-reponse-supporters/ Brilliant to see some media attention. Especially before Friday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Serious question: would a qualifying season ticket holder beneficiary of the PTFC Trust be able to contact the new trustees to ask whether the Trust Deed has been recently altered (again) and if so, to provide a copy? With another batch of new Trustees apparently in the saddle, it is quite possible that other changes have been made to the Trust. It is difficult to form any judgement on the behaviour of a trustee without fully understanding the rules under which they are required to operate. There are some legal duties which can't be side stepped, but it really ought to all be assessed "in the round". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Wee question for others more in the know If a season ticket makes you a member of the trust then if TJF bought season tickets on behalf of its members would that mean TJF had control of the Trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/20667930.partick-thistle-fan-ownership-announcement-met-angry-reponse-supporters/ Good article which is damning on 3BC/Low/Trust.. "Much of the rancour rests on the fact that the PTFC Trust chose to withhold their identity during negotiations from the very people they were there to represent. The Trust has existed for seven years and “is recognised as the primary vehicle for fan engagement” at the club, according to its Twitter profile: a message slightly undermined by the fact that prior to Wednesday’s announcement, it previous tweet (that wasn't a retweet) was written on 1 January 2020 as it wished its followers a Happy New Year. There has been no attempt to speak with supporters at games to anyone's knowledge. TJF’s proposal was ultimately rejected by 3BC, and we can deduce that the PTFC Trust’s offer proved more appealing in the end. But it must be said: for a body that claim to be the voice of the Thistle fans, the Trust’s cheerful announcement is wildly out of step with the support’s angry response. Three Black Cats has been approached for comment" Good luck with asking The Great Communicator for comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, laukat said: Wee question for others more in the know If a season ticket makes you a member of the trust then if TJF bought season tickets on behalf of its members would that mean TJF had control of the Trust? The short answer is "no". There are no members of the Trust. There is only a body of people on whose behalf the assets of the Trust are managed. Those beneficiaries have no say in the running of the Trust. All decisions are taken by the Trustees. A Trust structure is not set up to cater for two way discussion and engagement- that's just not what a Trust is for. The way to think about it is that the Trustees are there to make decisions for the benefit of certain people. The law imposes some rules on how the trustees should behave, but there is zero scope for engagement beyond that. It is not possible for a beneficiary to influence a decision that a trustee makes - it is only required that the trustee discharges its legal duties, and if the beneficiary thinks that those duties have not been properly performed, it would need to go to court to argue the point. That would be a claim against the trustee personally. A Trust structure is fundamtally a passive arrangement, not one of dynamic engagement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 All new names on their signed letter today but who was on the trust the time of their last update prior to today? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 This is actually quite an important point, if viewed in the context of what anyone would realistically mean by the concept of "fan ownership". Add in a structure which allows the football club board to control the composition of the trustees, and an abject failure to comply with its own rules about the (limited) input that season ticket holders have to influence the appointment of some (but not all) trustees, and the Trust looks to me to be a de facto extension of the club board. That's about as far removed from fan ownership as you can get, without actually giving the shares directly to club board directors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Now I’m wondering if I missed a trick by not putting my name forth as preferred recipient, with my governance drawn up on the back of a napkin reading “Tell me what you want us to do and we’ll do it.” Lets face it, it’s all trending toward American ownership anyway! For real though, one comment for TJF would be in regards to earlier Twitter posts unearthed by….MarciaBlaine maybe?….where Colin, via TBC, mentioned the Well Society model. This vision seems very different from the one being presented. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: I wonder how many members of this site are currently also members of the Thistle Trust? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, ChiThistle said: Now I’m wondering if I missed a trick by not putting my name forth as preferred recipient, with my governance drawn up on the back of a napkin reading “Tell me what you want us to do and we’ll do it.” Lets face it, it’s all trending toward American ownership anyway! For real though, one comment for TJF would be in regards to earlier Twitter posts unearthed by….MarciaBlaine maybe?….where Colin, via TBC, mentioned the Well Society model. This vision seems very different from the one being presented. Why? Here you go https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-statement-9/ The time for asking TBC to be consistent or do the decent thing has sadly passed imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said: The 22-page document, that is produced by TJF, makes it clear no members of the board from TJF were acceptable to the current PTFC board. Is this factually correct? My recollection was that the document said that no members of the TJF board wanted to be put forward onto the club board, and that any such fan representative club board appointee should be voted for by the supporters. Perhaps I misremember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 utterly shameful. complete fix. looks nothing like "fan ownership". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, BowenBoys said: https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/20667930.partick-thistle-fan-ownership-announcement-met-angry-reponse-supporters/ Good piece. I met Colin Weir and he would not have wanted a stitch-up with shares going to a mysterious collection of uncommunicative, unelected fans. He would have been happy to go with the Motherwell type model with a ready made democratically elected fans group who were more inclusive. No amount of spin fools me. No one penny more this season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) The secrecy doesn't even look like it's over. Some guy Stewart Macgregor all over the club Facebook page who wasn't mentioned in the initial PTFC trust statement giving it the big I'm in the know and know what I'm talking about and then going quiet as soon as people question him about it. Imagine that? Weirs legacy is one of the worst thing to ever happen to PTFC. Money wasted on rubbish players, saddled us with Low and not a penny spent on facilities. Edited August 17, 2022 by avie-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, elevenone said: All new names on their signed letter today but who was on the trust the time of their last update prior to today? Anyone know? Where is this list of names @elevenone? Sorry I’ve been working today and think I’ve missed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, avie-man said: The secrecy doesn't even look like it's over. Some guy Stewart McGregor all over the club Facebook page who wasn't mentioned in the initial PTFC trust statement giving it the big I'm in the know and know what I'm talking about and then going quiet as soon as people question him about it. Imagine that? Weirs legacy is one of the worst thing to ever happen to PTFC. Money wasted on rubbish players, saddled us with Low and not a penny spent on facilities. Who is this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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