Mr Scruff Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 I was ambivalent about Fan Ownership when it was announced in 2019, and have remained that way throughout most of the intervening period. I felt that there was something rotten in the core of the club, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. A tepid fan ownership model would therefore give this a charade of approval and just cement in any problems. I have come to admire the process that those involved with The Jags Foundation have gone through, their professionalism, communication, and engagement. With this as a model of fan ownership and involvement, I optimistically felt that we had a positive route forward and the chance to reinvigorate ‘our’ club. I always felt that this didn’t align with those running the club, who only seemed interested in preserving their positions. The fact that this has played out as it has is predictable and depressing. We can’t go backwards. And yet the fact that the current Club/ 3BC/ PTFC Trust are doing exactly that is something I can’t reconcile with. It’s not just the fact that the club that I’ve spent more decades of my life than I care to think has treated me like a mug. It’s also that this offers nothing for the future direction other than more of the same, or worse. Thistle will always be my team but I can’t support this thing. I do believe that change is needed but don’t know what can be done to effect that, especially with the current incumbents at every level being smug, dismissive, divisive, and clearly do not care what we think (all in the name of “fan ownership” – so ludicrous). I will continue to give my support to The Jags Foundation in the hope that this can become something that can ultimately be used effectively to bring about the positive change we desperately need. I worry, though, that they will feel unable to do that, without losing negotiating power, and I get that. But this is the only game in town that has any chance of winning me back and I suspect many like me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 13 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: I'm sure someone from the Jags Trust will be at the game tomorrow. Could maybe try semaphore or even an Aldis lamp. You probably meant to refer to the PTFC Trust, but mentioning the Jags Trust brings an earlier board's unsavoury behaviour to mind. The Jags Trust was outmanoeuvred (Remember the board's call for a "Leap of Faith" as the successful fans' fundraising was brought under the control of the board?) - and the then board managed to get some fans to blame the JT for the board's mendacity. Other dubious features of board duplicity stir themselves in the soup of my memories, like board members having shares in another Scottish football club, but there was no effectve means to challenge such actions, just as there is presumably no external oversight of the executry of the Weir legacy. Pity that our club board only seems to attract snakes in the grass. AFAIK the Jags Trust still has the only independent fans' holding of shares, albeit diluted by the board's preferred means of share issues. The Jags Trust might yet be the only vehicle for the TJF to apply some leverage on the board, even if only as a minority shareholder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erty13 Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Good that they have reversed the decisions as they were just pouring fuel on the fire. They will however be just waiting for something to happen and blame TJF and then ban them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Fearchar said: The Jags Trust was outmanoeuvred (Remember the board's call for a "Leap of Faith" as the successful fans' fundraising was brought under the control of the board?) - and the then board managed to get some fans to blame the JT for the board's mendacity. We were outmanoeuvred, our ‘crime’ was trusting the Club Board to deliver on its promises of shares. It didn’t. That still irks me to this day. But what happened, happened. It’s probably why I didn’t trust the latest incarnation of the Club Board, especially the way they have acted towards TJF - a professional, democratically elected fan representative body. One of two of us ‘older’ fans are sick of the politics at Firhill. It ruins what would otherwise be a happy experience supporting the Jags. I’m angry at recent events to the point that I’m giving this season a miss. I may only be back at all if there is meaningful change in the way the Club is run. In the meantime, I’ll take in a few games in the Highland League and at some nice grounds in Division 2. I am sad it has come to this, but I want to enjoy watching football again, 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, sandy said: We were outmanoeuvred, our ‘crime’ was trusting the Club Board to deliver on its promises of shares. It didn’t. That still irks me to this day. But what happened, happened. It’s probably why I didn’t trust the latest incarnation of the Club Board, especially the way they have acted towards TJF - a professional, democratically elected fan representative body. One of two of us ‘older’ fans are sick of the politics at Firhill. It ruins what would otherwise be a happy experience supporting the Jags. I’m angry at recent events to the point that I’m giving this season a miss. I may only be back at all if there is meaningful change in the way the Club is run. In the meantime, I’ll take in a few games in the Highland League and at some nice grounds in Division 2. I am sad it has come to this, but I want to enjoy watching football again, I won't even be watching tonight's game, that's how sick fed up of this joke of a football club I am. Edited August 19, 2022 by Garscube Road End 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Is there a danger here that, as this becomes more widely publicised, outsiders looking in at this dispute (in ignorance), will see it as something akin to The Judean People’s Front vs. the People’s Front of Judea. The Club isn't exactly helping matters by deigning to permit their unfavoured group to assemble within the hallowed portals of Firhill and indeed seems to be trying to potentially "divide and conquer" the two factions. Lord help us if anger is, in due course, replaced by indifference but that might be the slippery slope that many are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 I don’t think that I’ve got a complete hadle on things going on at Firhill, other than the BoD’s aka Jaqui Lowe seem ready to plunge this club into complete internecine conflict for no worthwhile or productive reason that I can see. I honestly can’t see a justifiable cause for the ,manner in which at all. If I am being incredibly stupid and unable to see something that is obvious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 14 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: I'm sure someone from the Jags Trust will be at the game tomorrow. Could maybe try semaphore or even an Aldis lamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggydave Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-update/ So there is more work to do.....TJF are so far ahead of the Trust in all things but still not preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 24 minutes ago, JeanieD said: Is there a danger here that, as this becomes more widely publicised, outsiders looking in at this dispute (in ignorance), will see it as something akin to The Judean People’s Front vs. the People’s Front of Judea. The Club isn't exactly helping matters by deigning to permit their unfavoured group to assemble within the hallowed portals of Firhill and indeed seems to be trying to potentially "divide and conquer" the two factions. Lord help us if anger is, in due course, replaced by indifference but that might be the slippery slope that many are on. One of the issues is that I don't see this more widely publicised. Admittedly I live in Lancashire, but all I have seen is a couple of articles in the Glasgow Times. I would have expected this to be picked up more widely by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-statement-on-way-forward-with-ptfc-trust/ 'It is for the PTFC Trust as an independent entity to articulate its preferred way of operating and in partnership with the Club Board to agree on the operating model that works best for the Club and Jags fans. To be clear, that could include any number of options which are common in fan-owned clubs including having representatives from the Trust on the Club Board'. I spent 30 years in Sourcing & would never have awarded a potential supplier any type of contract without clarity on 'its preferred way of operating'. This statement really beggars belief. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jimbo said: https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-statement-on-way-forward-with-ptfc-trust/ 'It is for the PTFC Trust as an independent entity to articulate its preferred way of operating and in partnership with the Club Board to agree on the operating model that works best for the Club and Jags fans. To be clear, that could include any number of options which are common in fan-owned clubs including having representatives from the Trust on the Club Board'. I spent 30 years in Sourcing & would never have awarded a potential supplier any type of contract without clarity on 'its preferred way of operating'. This statement really beggars belief. Particularly when the Board seemed very cold on the idea of fan reps when speaking to TJF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 I am so very confused now. In the words of Adrian Edmondson, “Oh god, I’ve got to stop sniffing this Ajax.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, sandy said: Particularly when the Board seemed very cold on the idea of fan reps when speaking to TJF While witnessing the slow-motion car crash that is still in progress on the PFTC Trust Facebook page, she's playing for time. "... could include ... having representatives from the Trust on the Club Board", but it won't. Here is a statement from PTFC Trust, posted yesterday on their Facebook page: "Whilst we are experienced and successful business professionals, as individuals, we have no experience of running a football club. We believe in the current board, who have skills and knowledge we do not possess. We hope to learn from them as we work closely together. In addition, we think having members on the club board could cause a conflict between their duties to the club and their responsibility to the fans. As majority shareholders, we will put questions raised by the fans on the agenda of every board meeting. The trustees will meet the club board immediately after every board meeting, then report to the fans all non-confidential information discussed at the meeting within 48 hours." TBC & PTFC Trust are continuing to dig. The deeper the hole, the hotter it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, ChiThistle said: I am so very confused now. In the words of Adrian Edmondson, “Oh god, I’ve got to stop sniffing this Ajax.” Its very simple, depending on your preferred culture. Star Wars - Jackie Low is Emperor Palpatine, The Board and PTFC Trust is The Empire, TJF are The Rebel Alliance. Harry Potter - Jackie Low is Voldermot, The Board and PTFC Trust are Death Eaters, TJF are Gryffindors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: While witnessing the slow-motion car crash that is still in progress on the PFTC Trust Facebook page, she's playing for time. "... could include ... having representatives from the Trust on the Club Board", but it won't. Here is a statement from PTFC Trust, posted yesterday on their Facebook page: "Whilst we are experienced and successful business professionals, as individuals, we have no experience of running a football club. We believe in the current board, who have skills and knowledge we do not possess. We hope to learn from them as we work closely together. In addition, we think having members on the club board could cause a conflict between their duties to the club and their responsibility to the fans. As majority shareholders, we will put questions raised by the fans on the agenda of every board meeting. The trustees will meet the club board immediately after every board meeting, then report to the fans all non-confidential information discussed at the meeting within 48 hours." TBC & PTFC Trust are continuing to dig. The deeper the hole, the hotter it gets. It’s deep @BowenBoys and getting hotter. It’s a bloody shambles. Btw sorry to hear you have been unwell, hope things are getting better for you? Edited August 19, 2022 by sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fearchar said: You probably meant to refer to the PTFC Trust, but mentioning the Jags Trust No it was the Jags Trust. I was flippantly meaning. btw I love the "independent entity" reference in the latest communique. Stretching the imagination somewhat. Edited August 19, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifexile Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 2 hours ago, sandy said: We were outmanoeuvred, our ‘crime’ was trusting the Club Board to deliver on its promises of shares. It didn’t. That still irks me to this day. But what happened, happened. It’s probably why I didn’t trust the latest incarnation of the Club Board, especially the way they have acted towards TJF - a professional, democratically elected fan representative body. One of two of us ‘older’ fans are sick of the politics at Firhill. It ruins what would otherwise be a happy experience supporting the Jags. I’m angry at recent events to the point that I’m giving this season a miss. I may only be back at all if there is meaningful change in the way the Club is run. In the meantime, I’ll take in a few games in the Highland League and at some nice grounds in Division 2. I am sad it has come to this, but I want to enjoy watching football again, I'm with you on this Sandy. I'm scunnered with all the shit that has gone on. I'm still 100% behind TJF but for now I'll find an alternative way of spending Saturday afternoons. I hope that a time will come in the near future that I'm desperate to get back to Firhill but right now I'm not sure if even promotion to the Premier would be enough to entice me back. Sad days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, fifexile said: I'm with you on this Sandy. I'm scunnered with all the shit that has gone on. I'm still 100% behind TJF but for now I'll find an alternative way of spending Saturday afternoons. I hope that a time will come in the near future that I'm desperate to get back to Firhill but right now I'm not sure if even promotion to the Premier would be enough to entice me back. Sad days. Totally understand how you feel mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 So the PTFC trust havnt got outline proposals never mind having presented detailed ones, clearly no fit and proper test has been done by the club yet they are preferred bidders on what basis ? being poddles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: So the PTFC trust havnt got outline proposals never mind having presented detailed ones, clearly no fit and proper test has been done by the club yet they are preferred bidders on what basis ? https://www.sheetmusicwarehouse.co.uk/image/crop/mw1500/mh750/4/im-your-puppet-james-and-bobby-purify-1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 I’ll raise you with Leonard Cohen and ‘Puppets’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, sandy said: I’ll raise you with Leonard Cohen and ‘Puppets’ Hold fire with Everybody Knows for now. 12 minutes ago, sandy said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Hold fire with Everybody Knows for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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