The Jags Foundation

[dali]

Member 936 

[jagfox]

11 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Am I right in thinking the membership numbers started at 101? 

They started at 0 or 1 but the number includes people who left/ re-joined for example. 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

Hold fire with Everybody Knows for now. 

Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere

[Woodstock Jag]

1 hour ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Am I right in thinking the membership numbers started at 101? 

No, they started at #1.

A membership number is assigned every time someone successfully completes the sign-up form, or is manually added to our database.

However, of those people, some will have:

• subsequently cancelled their membership, or had their membership lapse due to non-payment
• accidentally completed the form more than once, leading to the above for one or more mandates
• completed the form more than once to fix a payment issue (and had their membership data merged afterwards)
• completed the form more than once to rejoin the Foundation (and had their membership data merged afterwards)

Membership numbers are not re-used and are unique to each individual.

At its peak, the Foundation had about 60 lapsed members, which immediately inflates the individual membership numbers by that amount, and there were quite a number of payment issues as the payment pause was lifted, but most of this has now settled down (he says as the guy trying to run the database).

By way of illustration we currently have 816 members, but the most recent person to sign-up was allocated #942.

 

[ChiThistle]

So did any TJF reps meet up with any PTFC Trust reps and discuss business?  Perhaps over a livestream?  (And by that, I mean a chat at the urinal)

 

[partickthedog]

5 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Am I right in thinking the membership numbers started at 101? 

We allowed all the Dalmatians to join first

[eljaggo]

The PTFC Trust have poodles.

Edited August 20, 2022 by eljaggo

[eljaggo]

With the transfer of the Weir shares to the PTFC Trust, Low will have fulfilled her obligations and duties to the Weir estate.

What then is the reason for her continued presence on the Board of Partick Thistle Football Club?

[stolenscone]

For those of you of Facebook, you may have spotted posts from Neil Roden on the PTFC Trust page. Neil is a well known business figure, and happens to be a Thistle fan.  (I don't know him personally.) He was the group HR director for RBS for a long time.

Anyway, Neil has been trying to ask pointed questions to the Trust on Facebook. I haven't been able to find any meaningful reply to anything that he has asked so far.

I mention it now because in a half hearted reply yesterday, the Trust said that they did not require to make public to beneficiaries the proposal that was put to 3BC for share acquisition, but they would "see what they can do".  This concerned me.

Trust law gives trustees wide powers to act, but the counterpoint that trustees owe beneficiaries certain legal duties in return. It is not possible to contract out of some of these legal duties.  One of the duties is to provide information to beneficiaries, sufficient to allow the beneficiaries to hold the trustees to account to ensure that the trust is being properly managed.

Put the Trust statement on Facebook alongside that legal obligation and think for yourself what they are saying to their beneficiaries...

[Fearchar]

21 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

No it was the Jags Trust. I was flippantly meaning.

 

btw I love the "independent entity" reference in the latest communique. Stretching the imagination somewhat. 

Unquestionably independent of the board - presumably nursing a (justified) grudge for being maltreated, something which guarantees that independence.

[sandy]

5 hours ago, stolenscone said:

For those of you of Facebook, you may have spotted posts from Neil Roden on the PTFC Trust page. Neil is a well known business figure, and happens to be a Thistle fan.  (I don't know him personally.) He was the group HR director for RBS for a long time.

Anyway, Neil has been trying to ask pointed questions to the Trust on Facebook. I haven't been able to find any meaningful reply to anything that he has asked so far.

I mention it now because in a half hearted reply yesterday, the Trust said that they did not require to make public to beneficiaries the proposal that was put to 3BC for share acquisition, but they would "see what they can do".  This concerned me.

Trust law gives trustees wide powers to act, but the counterpoint that trustees owe beneficiaries certain legal duties in return. It is not possible to contract out of some of these legal duties.  One of the duties is to provide information to beneficiaries, sufficient to allow the beneficiaries to hold the trustees to account to ensure that the trust is being properly managed.

Put the Trust statement on Facebook alongside that legal obligation and think for yourself what they are saying to their beneficiaries...

Neil and his sons were ST holders for years. I remember sitting near him in the JH when I took my daughter to games. 

The gentlemen in the PTFC Trust seem remarkably unsure of their own Trust Deeds. That doesn’t fill me with confidence at all. 

[Aliballibee]

For those not on FB latest Trust posting:

 

[erty13]

Just replied to the TJF questionnaire,  however I think you should also ask the members if they are happy for say £20k of the funds to be allocated to legal advice to scrutinise the actions of the five members now running the trust.

They need to know that they could be personally accountable for their actions. The trust deed that they put in place could be the most important document in the Club's history.

[Woodstock Jag]

Thank you to every member who has filled in the questionnaire so far. Please check your emails if you're a member and complete it if you can. Takes only 5 minutes.

[scotty]

8 minutes ago, erty13 said:

Just replied to the TJF questionnaire,  however I think you should also ask the members if they are happy for say £20k of the funds to be allocated to legal advice to scrutinise the actions of the five members now running the trust.

They need to know that they could be personally accountable for their actions. The trust deed that they put in place could be the most important document in the Club's history.

Isn't this is something the club board/ 3BC should be doing?

[Aliballibee]

Having just found it (maybe a bad sign) and scrolling through the questions, the PTFC Trust FB page  has been asked a number of reasonable questions and singularly refused to answer any of them!

[erty13]

2 minutes ago, scotty said:

Isn't this is something the club board/ 3BC should be doing?

That would be like marking your own homework. You would always get 100%

I would rather TJF looked at it independently 

[Woodstock Jag]

2 minutes ago, erty13 said:

That would be like marking your own homework. You would always get 100%

I would rather TJF looked at it independently 

It's an interesting idea. It will not surprise you to know, erty, that TJF has been doing its own "diligence" exercise on the PTFC Trust and a great deal of things related to it.

 

[sandy]

35 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Thank you to every member who has filled in the questionnaire so far. Please check your emails if you're a member and complete it if you can. Takes only 5 minutes.

Survey done now @Woodstock Jag

[scotty]

43 minutes ago, erty13 said:

That would be like marking your own homework. You would always get 100%

I would rather TJF looked at it independently 

 

37 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

It's an interesting idea. It will not surprise you to know, erty, that TJF has been doing its own "diligence" exercise on the PTFC Trust and a great deal of things related to it.

 

What I was trying to say is that it's 3BC who are handing the shares to PTFC Trust therefore it is legally their responsibility to make sure that organisation is fit and proper. TJF may be better served (and at less financial cost) pressurising 3BC and the club board to ensure they are doing it. The club board must have a duty in this if they are running the club rather than the fans group as it will be their responsibility if the "new owners" have a load of debt they can only service by selling assets (shares).

[sandy]

Perhaps TJF could commission the work and send the invoice to the Club Board 

[Woodstock Jag]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

Perhaps TJF could commission the work and send the invoice to the Club Board 

We did have a wee joke yesterday about invoicing them for our legal bills, but to be fair to the PTFC Trust they appear to be saying that their legal fees were funded by someone from "within the trustee group".

I'm not completely clear whether that means one of the five trustees, or if this "trustee group" is a reference to something wider, but we will keep asking them until we get an answer.

[Woodstock Jag]

Update: today we wrote to the PTFC Trust, on behalf of more than 200 TJF members who (also being season ticket holders) are beneficiaries of the Trust, to disclose and publish the minutes from all of the trustee meetings since March 2022.

We will let you know if and when we hear a response.

You can read our letter here: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/letter-to-the-ptfc-trust-trustees/

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Update: today we wrote to the PTFC Trust, on behalf of more than 200 TJF members who (also being season ticket holders) are beneficiaries of the Trust, to disclose and publish the minutes from all of the trustee meetings since March 2022.

We will let you know if and when we hear a response.

You can read our letter here: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/letter-to-the-ptfc-trust-trustees/

That is brilliant work, WJ. Response awaited with interest!

[partickthedog]

Just spotted the following in the Scottish Football Supporters Association newsletter under the heading "Partick Thistle reveal how not to do fan ownership". The article was obviously written a few days ago, and therefore is slightly behind the curve as regards the current trustees of the PTFC Trust, but generally is very much on the ball. When they say "tenants", I think they mean "tenets"!

THREE BLACK CATS the holding company run by Partick Thistle Chairman Jacqui Low and the lawyer for the late Colin Weir have announced that the PTFC Trust has been chosen as the preferred model after discussions with the Jags Foundation broke down.
The PTFC Trust will now control just under 75% of the club’s shares after adding Weir’s 55% to the 19.28% they already held.
Under the trust’s proposed model all adult season ticket holders will immediately become beneficiaries and custodians of 74.28% of the club . 
The Trust ( not to be confused with a supporters Trust model) has been a moribund organisation for over 4 years and is certainly not an open democratic organisation given that its Trustees include the club CEO and its Trustees were fans picked by the club Board.

Our member the Jags Foundation have since expressed their disagreement with the proposal, and believe fans should be consulted and heard before the move goes ahead. This widespread disbelief that this deal has been constructed in a way that protects the sitting Board from any meaningful scrutiny ( allowing them to sit in perpetuity), dismisses a democratic fans organisation ( set up to deliver fan ownership) and fails to offer the key tenants that every other fan owned club has in place. The supporters are clearly backing their fans organisation which has seen its membership swell to over 800 members in the past week.

Having considerable expertise in community ownership the SFSA stand by ready to help in any way we can.