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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

PTFC Trust don’t need a plan - they have the shares. Now the question for TJF is what do they do now and more importantly what do they do with their members money. 
ETA - oh I know . They will send out a questionnaire, hold a members meeting weeks later and then have a board meeting some time after that to consider the discussion at the members meeting.

Constructive as ever.

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22 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have known this has been coming for weeks, but there has been nothing from TJF. What,if anything, are they going to do now ? 

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You are correct - the PTFC Trust have the shares - and TJF do not 

And like you I have doubts over the concept of Fan Ownership simply from a Finance Perspective 

I do however believe in fair play - TJF have been Open & Upfront and responsive to Questions - Yes this slows down the process but thats the nature of that type of structure 

If your happy on how this has played out- then good luck to you - but I think we have lost a bit of our Soul today  

    

And probably some fans and some income.

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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

I think it says crazily that we want to present ourselves as fan owned while not giving a shit about the fans.

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25 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

You appear to be gloating for unfathomable reasons. You must realise that the vast majority of fans are deeply unhappy with this process for a myriad of reasons. It's obvious trying to reverse this appalling situation is difficult for the TJF ( and the fans ) but at least they are trying, not sniping from the sidelines. 

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

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22 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The bottom line is that there was nothing they could do - 3BC owned the Shares - they cut a deal with the Thistle Trust - TJF despite having the backing of a large chunk of the Fan Base were cut out of the deal ( despite Two Years of discussions ) 

As for the future - TJF have limited options - clearly a lot of Fans are not happy - however beyond not going to the Games - Fans have limited influence until it becomes Season Ticket Renewal Time - if things are going well on the Park - off the Park Issues take a Back seat 

But what does it say about Thistle as a Club and its relationship with its Fans 

ST Renewal is a long way off. This will be long forgotten by then. I think this is going to take something prolonged - week in, week out by TJF members home and away. Make sure your message is heard across the country. Go into the games if you want, stay out if you don’t.

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25 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:
 
(commenting on today’s developments)
“This statement, along with the entire process, has been utterly disgraceful. Secret deals being made between the unelected is something I have come to expect from my work, not my football club.”

Has anyone from TJF spoken to Mhairi Black? I don't agree with everything she says or does but she could be a useful ally in this situation.

A number of others have been commenting on lack of action by TJF but I personally disagree with that. The next course of action seems to be contacting SFA or going down some sort of legal route and they appear to have been gathering plenty of evidence of lack of communication and engagement by the PTFC Trust with their so called beneficiaries which may come in useful if they pursue action in that direction.

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19 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

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19 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am not gloating - I have been urging TJF to do something since it was revealed they weren’t the preferred recipient ,which was before the Queens Park game. But no procedure was more important. You say, they are trying - what are they doing  ?

I spoke to one of TJF guys at Saturday's game & expressed my concern that action appeared to have stalled. I was advised that something would be forthcoming this week. Can only hope that they expected today's announcement & that can retaliate. Fingers crossed.

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My American football team recently earned an amazing loss when a player chose to score a touchdown instead of time-wasting. A highly improbable series of events saw the opposing team score twice in the span of two minutes and win.  Some fans chose to lay blame at the player who scored, even though the resulting events were entirely outwith his control.  He had no direct way to influence the outcome.

A statement like “what’s TJF going to do - send a questionnaire?” feels equally silly because the situation has been outwith its control as well.  The questionnaires are the kind of engagement that has been sorely lacking from the club for years and was a major differentiator in TJF’s model and shouldnt be used as a negative, in my opinion.

Edit:  “shouldn’t be be” to “shouldn’t be”

Edited by ChiThistle
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3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

Jim - there are 2 points to note:

First: there is obviously a poor track record of holding elections. That needs to change.

Second: I don't know about you, but I currently have no visibility on what, if any, agreement the PTFC Trust trustees might have entered into with the Club Board viz exercise of shareholder rights.  If they have signed a shareholder agreement which essentially gives away any right they have to hold the Club Board to account, then what we are witnessing is a backdoor means to place the Club within the de facto ownership of the Club Board, not the fans.  But so far, the trustees haven't provided any information to explain what they have signed up to. You can't hold them to account for their actions if you don't know what they have done. That's a huge problem. 

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15 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I think at the Heart is that beyond flagging up what was going on - they were limited in what they could do - until the actual Share Transfer took place by applying pressure then it was feasible that a compromise could be reached with 3BC ( unlikely I know ) but it couldnt be ruled out - now its a done deal them TJF ( and the Fans ) can decide what the next steps are - my view is simple - replace those on the Thistle Trust at there Elections 

Spot on…..though I’m sure they are working on trying to avoid that 

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5 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

Jim - there are 2 points to note:

First: there is obviously a poor track record of holding elections. That needs to change.

Second: I don't know about you, but I currently have no visibility on what, if any, agreement the PTFC Trust trustees might have entered into with the Club Board viz exercise of shareholder rights.  If they have signed a shareholder agreement which essentially gives away any right they have to hold the Club Board to account, then what we are witnessing is a backdoor means to place the Club within the de facto ownership of the Club Board, not the fans.  But so far, the trustees haven't provided any information to explain what they have signed up to. You can't hold them to account for their actions if you don't know what they have done. That's a huge problem. 

Yes this is concerning and I know the legalities around trusts are let’s say interesting but so far the trusts actions don’t fill you with confidence 

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That’s me done with the Club this season and possibly longer if nothing changes. Im sick of the secret deals and the strange presence of agents.

The current Club Board need to be held account for this shambles and the lack of integrity, They are ruining the Club and need to be removed.

As for the famous five of the PTFC Trust, I hope they can sleep at night realising that they have colluded to ruin it for the fans. 

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Bizarre decision from Jaqui Low and the PTFC Trust 5.  @Lenziejag & @denismcquadeno.eleven not helping matters with "I told you so" and illogical plans of action.

The Jags Foundation were showing maturity and good governance.  They had limited chance at this stage but with 800 members we still have a strong voice and power.

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58 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Counting the QP game, six games have been played, since that announcement was made by 3BCs/PTFC back in August.

Perhaps TJF didn’t think things would proceed as fast as they have, but, unfortunately as with a) the ‘Not Fit & Proper’ announcement of 9 April, b) the announcement rejecting the overtures of the second (elected) TJF, now today’s statement from the board seems to have caught TJF on the hop again. 

I think you are absolutely correct 

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Denis, it’s just that we have you & Lenziejag both criticising the TJF for lack of action. But at the same time neither of you seem to have acted individually to register a protest. 

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. It’s easy to criticise a fans group, but it carries less weight if you haven’t acted either. 

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12 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Look, this isn’t about me, though several people on here want to make it so. The disapproval and negativity I receive, I ignore, (see LLD above, as an example.) This is about the people who run our club, and have been shown up in all their unpleasantness.

I have written many emails to PTFC over recent years about matters with which I disagreed. I got not a single reply to any of them. I knew what that board was like longer than many, I.believe. I no longer subscribe to Jagzone, don’t buy Thistle shirts and other merchandise. I used to buy a lot! I can’t get to Firhill nowadays, so I can’t do anything about withdrawing ticket money. When you were busy signing up to (was it him) another poster’s exhortations to get more people to sign up to sponsor shirts, I inwardly winced. I would not  have been doing that at that time, for sure. The management of PTFC are not very nice people, they have hoodwinked the fans. That’s yet another reality. I have been ‘a messenger’ with the bad news-that’s all. That bad news turned out to be true-as seen previously and today-don’t shoot the messenger! 

Denis, you have been consistent in advocating some form of protest & I respect that. However, given the culture at the top of our club,  & let's face it even most of those who have been critical of TJF freely admit it stinks, there is no guarantee that any visible protest would have influenced TBC/BoD. Indeed it may even have been counter productive unless the vast majority of TJF members actively participated. Is there a better way? I honestly don't know

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11 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Denis, you have been consistent in advocating some form of protest & I respect that. However, given the culture at the top of our club,  & let's face it even most of those who have been critical of TJF freely admit it stinks, there is no guarantee that any visible protest would have influenced TBC/BoD. Indeed it may even have been counter productive unless the vast majority of TJF members actively participated. Is there a better way? I honestly don't know

I suppose TJF could have called for season ticket holders to withhold their money at the start of the season. All it would have taken was a quick look in a crystal ball. :unsure:

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1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Bizarre decision from Jaqui Low and the PTFC Trust 5.  @Lenziejag & @denismcquadeno.eleven not helping matters with "I told you so" and illogical plans of action.

The Jags Foundation were showing maturity and good governance.  They had limited chance at this stage but with 800 members we still have a strong voice and power.

That’s true - but have lost 6 weeks of getting the message out, one of which could have been on national tv.

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4 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

That’s true - but have lost 6 weeks of getting the message out, one of which could have been on national tv.

I honestly dont think that protest would have made any difference - they knew the decision would not go down well - yet chose to continue with it 

The Season Tickets - Sponsor Packages had already been sold by the time TJF were told they were not getting the Shares and the Thistle Trust were the reciepients

So whilst I agree with the fact that organisations like TJF move slowly due to the nature of how they are set up - I honestly dont believe anything they did would have changed the outcome one jot 

The current set up was the one that was preferred - TJF were never going to agree to it - so they were not getting the Shares - its as simple as that 

 

 

  

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