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It’s been a while since I last looked at Three Black Cats’ annual accounts (and they don’t illuminate much except for quickly depleting cash reserves and a massive soft loan) but I thought they had sold on the land on which the training ground was supposedly going to be built?

The development had already encountered problems with access routes and permissions at planning stage so I doubt it’s a viable location.

Longer-term though, unless some serious money is put into making Firhill fit for purpose, the conversation about what to do with it will become an uncomfortable one. Moving outside of Maryhill would, IMO, be terminal for the Club, in much the same way as it has been for Clyde leaving Glasgow. You would immediately lose easily 500 off the normal home gate, and the soul of the Club would wither and die. But there’s not going to be another, more suitable, venue within Glasgow, that costs less to acquire so as to make it worth the hassle leaving Firhill in the first place. We can’t do a St Mirren.

I’ve gone back into the 3BC accounts again and this is from Season 2020-21:

image.png.e6b8bdc03095829dc066b2caa20108f7.png

To the best of my awareness, 3BC has only one subsidiary. PTFC Limited. So when you read the Thistle accounts for that year, bear this in mind. That year PTFC Limited reported a £6k profit, while also in receipt of over £500k in Covid-19 support.

Turnover no doubt recovered quite significantly in 2021-22 with a full season, in the second tier, and there will have been the Queen’s Park groundshare money (though also the additional expense fixing the pitch). But bluntly it is not clear that PTFC Ltd will have broken even (or got near to it) in that financial year without some significant non-obvious other support. The ground transfer also took place inside the 2021-22 financial year, so that will be a one off appreciation in assets of almost £2 million, but which will do nothing for cashflow or turnover.

So I would recommend that everyone looks very closely at not just the PTFC Limited accounts as and when they are published, but also the 3BC ones.

Edited by Woodstock Jag
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14 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

It’s been a while since I last looked at Three Black Cats’ annual accounts (and they don’t illuminate much except for quickly depleting cash reserves and a massive soft loan) but I thought they had sold on the land on which the training ground was supposedly going to be built?

The development had already encountered problems with access routes and permissions at planning stage so I doubt it’s a viable location.

Longer-term though, unless some serious money is put into making Firhill fit for purpose, the conversation about what to do with it will become an uncomfortable one. Moving outside of Maryhill would, IMO, be terminal for the Club, in much the same way as it has been for Clyde leaving Glasgow. You would immediately lose easily 500 off the normal home gate, and the soul of the Club would wither and die. But there’s not going to be another, more suitable, venue within Glasgow, that costs less to acquire so as to make it worth the hassle leaving Firhill in the first place. We can’t do a St Mirren.

I’ve gone back into the 3BC accounts again and this is from Season 2020-21:

image.png.e6b8bdc03095829dc066b2caa20108f7.png

To the best of my awareness, 3BC has only one subsidiary. PTFC Limited. So when you read the Thistle accounts for that year, bear this in mind. That year PTFC Limited reported a £6k profit, while also in receipt of over £500k in Covid-19 support.

Turnover no doubt recovered quite significantly in 2021-22 with a full season, in the second tier, and there will have been the Queen’s Park groundshare money (though also the additional expense fixing the pitch). But bluntly it is not clear that PTFC Ltd will have broken even (or got near to it) in that financial year without some significant non-obvious other support. The ground transfer also took place inside the 2021-22 financial year, so that will be a one off appreciation in assets of almost £2 million, but which will do nothing for cashflow or turnover.

So I would recommend that everyone looks very closely at not just the PTFC Limited accounts as and when they are published, but also the 3BC ones.

Interesting. I have a couple of questions/comments

I thought we only received £150k covid-19 support as that was issued when we were in league 1?

My understanding was the money 3BC's accounts before being transferred to PTFC Ltd was Colin Weir's money? 3BC (really just Jlow after Weir's death) were in effect control of that money?

Theoretically if PTFC ltd spending is artificially increased by increasing the number of employee's, by spending on feasibility studies and other work in support of an unnecessary training ground then the people in receipt of those payments have in effect got access to Colin Weir's money in a legal way that on face value benefits the club but in reality only provides short term game.

Much is made by Jlow and the Trust that we are debt free but your point about the state of the stadium shows the lie behind the debt free statement. We may be debt free now but thats because we are burning through Colin Weir's money and haven't fixed any long term issues that will need lots of money spent on them.

 

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3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

If I had the PTFC Trust’s gift for communication, I wouldn’t do it much either.

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17 minutes ago, laukat said:

Interesting. I have a couple of questions/comments

I thought we only received £150k covid-19 support as that was issued when we were in league 1?

That was a specific grant. Other support, including furlough, also applied in season 2020-21.

17 minutes ago, laukat said:

My understanding was the money 3BC's accounts before being transferred to PTFC Ltd was Colin Weir's money? 3BC (really just Jlow after Weir's death) were in effect control of that money?

Colin Weir set up 3BC and put his money into it. Some of that was in the form of a massive 7 figure soft loan, which the last accounts say will be waived. If it isn’t waived, 3BC goes very abruptly insolvent.

17 minutes ago, laukat said:

Theoretically if PTFC ltd spending is artificially increased by increasing the number of employee's, by spending on feasibility studies and other work in support of an unnecessary training ground then the people in receipt of those payments have in effect got access to Colin Weir's money in a legal way that on face value benefits the club but in reality only provides short term game.

I’m straying into the deeper recesses of my memory with this, but as I understand it this money was all set aside and put into 3BC before his death. Not being a revenue generating company, 3BC needed working capital to operate (eg legal fees to Peter Shand’s firm will, I imagine, not have been insignificant).

17 minutes ago, laukat said:

Much is made by Jlow and the Trust that we are debt free but your point about the state of the stadium shows the lie behind the debt free statement. We may be debt free now but thats because we are burning through Colin Weir's money and haven't fixed any long term issues that will need lots of money spent on them.

Cashflow, not debt, is what usually kills or severely weakens football clubs. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got several million on the balance sheet in the form of valuation of a dilapidated stadium unless there is the option to borrow against or sell it as part of your business plan. Beyond that the most important thing is how much cash do you have in the bank, how much recurring income can you bank on, and who are your short term creditors (and for how much).

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3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Their Commander in Chief sent them on a Special Operation. They were told they would be welcomed, with open arms, as heroes. They were assured they would be remembered in history.

That last bit, at least, is true. Stand up, take a bow, the brave quintet of the Patzy Division.

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15 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Maybe someone who knows the the training ground address in Kirkintilloch Road could check the Land Register to find the current and previous owners.

I don’t believe it was ever actually bought, merely an option to buy if planning permission was granted (which it wasn’t without substantial outlay) 

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28 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Maybe someone who knows the the training ground address in Kirkintilloch Road could check the Land Register to find the current and previous owners.

The area up for sale, as far as I remember, did not include access. It is in an area called Dryfield. Cala Homes were refused permission to build houses on it because it was a former sewage works.

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PTFC Trust came across quite defensive and tetchy with a journalist you really need on your side.  They are probably feeling the stress.  

Jaqui Low talking about "moral duty" <shudder> That just does not sit comfortably with me.

This could have been done so much better.  A real shame for such a small club.

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I am an ordinary supporter , season ticket holder, and have been a very very small shareholder for many years now. I only occasionally post here, and frankly have taken a “watching brief” on these matters, as I am agnostic when it comes to fan ownership. I am abroad on holiday ( with a time difference to explain the unusual hour!) and have had time to consider if I should take a side in what is happening:  my mind has now been made up by these three recent media articles by Stewart Macgregor ,Ms Low, and PTFC Trustees.                                                                    It’s essential that anyone involved with running our club has the confidence and respect of supporters - sadly this has evaporated in light of these three utterly ludicrous articles, from their content and tone. We appear to have become hostages to the wishes of one deceased supporter, the details of which only one person on earth knows and understands - and has resulted  in the club’s  majority shareholders being five hapless gents who don’t know what has happened, don’t know what is happening, and don’t know what is going to happen. “Fit  for purpose”?  Good God. What a shambles .                                                                     In comparison TJF, despite my misgivings about fan ownership, have shown themselves to have an integrity and competence sadly lacking in the present characters involved in the club.                                                                             In my opinion supporters have to chose a side here - I have today ( to my slight surprise) joined TJF,  and I hope they continue constructively and actively calling the present custodians of our club to account. 

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Having a Euromillions winner invest and donate to the club is the stuff of dreams to just about any senior club in the UK especially one the size of the Jags.

Yet today years later we have a large proportion of the fan base disgruntled to say the least at how it has played out.  Jacqui Low can ‘spin’ it any way she wants but I am certain this is not how Colin Weir would have wanted the fans feeling today and 3BC’s really need to reflect on that.

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1 hour ago, elevenone said:

Having a Euromillions winner invest and donate to the club is the stuff of dreams to just about any senior club in the UK especially one the size of the Jags.

Yet today years later we have a large proportion of the fan base disgruntled to say the least at how it has played out.  Jacqui Low can ‘spin’ it any way she wants but I am certain this is not how Colin Weir would have wanted the fans feeling today and 3BC’s really need to reflect on that.

I agree @elevenone. There is no way Colin Weir would have wanted a disgruntled, divided fan base with 5 random blokes somehow second-guessing his wishes and getting the shares. 

This is our Club, not a plaything for 3BC 

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9 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Older news but I think many may not have seen this as it was pay per view. I don't know if this is the exact same article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11245759/Patrick-chairman-Jacqui-Low-defiant-shares-decision-amid-battle-clubs-soul.html

I think Macdonald is a quality journalist but let's not forget he shares a seat at the table with Roughie on PLZsoccer. Draw your own conclusions.

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15 hours ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said:

Genuinely don’t think I’ve ever read more of a car crash of an article in my life. The Club deserves much, much better. Embarrassing stuff.

I agree wholeheartedly - THESE clowns are meant to be OUR representatives? Their aggressive reactions to perfectly legitimate questions put to them by a journalist speaks volumes. They clearly have something to hide and, until they come clean, they can't complain when we start to speculate what they are attempting to cover up.

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THISTLE PINS - INTRODUCING THE HUSBAND PIN!

We're delighted to launch the Husband Pin this evening. Read more at the following link: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/tjf-presents-the-husband-pin/

This is the third in the line of Thistle Pins. If you're a TJF member, you'll be eligible to purchase one as part of this limited run. As before, £10 including P&P with all proceeds to the Foundation. Check your emails for information about when they'll become available to reserve and how to do that.

image.thumb.png.609b8a313902aaafff0e1e2850dc9a13.png

One of the most exciting things about this Pin is that it's based on a photo Jackie Husband's family picked out. The original was in black and white, so we got in touch with a specialist colourist to give it a bit of a touch-up. The end result is pretty phenomenal.

image.thumb.png.b642153737b1a734b7c86f6f6b687b1b.png

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