The Jags Foundation

[Lambies Lost Doo]

More media podcast reporting.  This is the link via Spotify.  It's a good podcast resurrected from Totally Scottish Football Show. 

Twitter link 

podcast https://twitter.com/TSFSpodcast?t=N3BJMpA1UaZFrrp3_NIVvg&s=09

Podcast link

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5WTi7nJ7NPfCNdCEdHbOsm?si=vK9wWficTJGVEDwNKadZzQ&utm_source=copy-link

PART 4: Partick Thistle ownership controversy, with Ian Mackinnon from The Jags Foundation (31m 16s)

Edited September 28, 2022 by Lambies Lost Doo

[Woodstock Jag]

Sandy and I had a sit down with James Cairney from The Herald/Glasgow Times last week, and he's published the transcript.

Hopefully you can all look past my mixed metaphors and you find the exchanges useful to get a sense of where we are and the way forward.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020811.jags-foundation-interview-part-proposals-social-media-missing-shares/ (Part 1)

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020816.jags-foundation-interview-part-ii-fundraising-sponsors-future/ (Part 2)

[Mr Scruff]

2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Sandy and I had a sit down with James Cairney from The Herald/Glasgow Times last week, and he's published the transcript.

Hopefully you can all look past my mixed metaphors and you find the exchanges useful to get a sense of where we are and the way forward.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020811.jags-foundation-interview-part-proposals-social-media-missing-shares/ (Part 1)

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020816.jags-foundation-interview-part-ii-fundraising-sponsors-future/ (Part 2)

A long read, but a welcome one.

You both come across as positive and professional.  Such a marked contrast to the other interviews with 'others' I've seen recently published.  Which is one of the reason this all feels like a tragic outcome rather than a triumphant one.

 

[delurker]

4 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Sandy and I had a sit down with James Cairney from The Herald/Glasgow Times last week, and he's published the transcript.

Hopefully you can all look past my mixed metaphors and you find the exchanges useful to get a sense of where we are and the way forward.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020811.jags-foundation-interview-part-proposals-social-media-missing-shares/ (Part 1)

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020816.jags-foundation-interview-part-ii-fundraising-sponsors-future/ (Part 2)

Spot on, great job by all of you.

The contrast between your answers, attitude and conduct and that in James' interviews with the ludicrous PTFC Trust cabal and their middleman pal is staggering.

[sandy]

It has become a shitshow. I’m fully behind TJF but this political shite by 3BC has spoiled my enjoyment of the Jags for this season and possibly more. 

[Norgethistle]

On 9/27/2022 at 11:14 PM, Woodstock Jag said:

THISTLE PINS - INTRODUCING THE HUSBAND PIN!

We're delighted to launch the Husband Pin this evening. Read more at the following link: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/tjf-presents-the-husband-pin/

This is the third in the line of Thistle Pins. If you're a TJF member, you'll be eligible to purchase one as part of this limited run. As before, £10 including P&P with all proceeds to the Foundation. Check your emails for information about when they'll become available to reserve and how to do that.

One of the most exciting things about this Pin is that it's based on a photo Jackie Husband's family picked out. The original was in black and white, so we got in touch with a specialist colourist to give it a bit of a touch-up. The end result is pretty phenomenal.

The Husband family sent us this picture plus a very nice message on Facebook 

 

 

[JAG1970]

The Jags Foundation Interview part I: Proposals, social media and missing out on the shares | Glasgow Times

James Cairney has done a good job in getting interviews with both the TJT and the TJF. Unfortunately, Jacqui "the great communicator" Low remains in hiding.  I guess she thinks her little fireside chat in the Daily Mail ticks the box. 

Click on the link at the bottom of part 1 to read part 2

[Lambies Lost Doo]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lEY84fmLxkckVyUo3hGIa?si=3_cQUq04QYyLHrnvQ7XmzA&utm_source=copy-link

More exposure on this podcast about 25 mins in.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

When Saturday Comes magazine 21st October edition had an article on the Jacqui Low - Jags Trust - TJF battle

https://twitter.com/_neilcowan/status/1583352006734815232?t=Hq_Bpccc1MRcT5Wxh2aQqg&s=19

[Norgethistle]

4 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2lEY84fmLxkckVyUo3hGIa?si=3_cQUq04QYyLHrnvQ7XmzA&utm_source=copy-link

More exposure on this podcast about 25 mins in.

Ian comes across brilliantly in this, and the reaction from the panel to what’s going on tells its own story 

[Garscube Road End 2]

That was a  really  good interview with Ian McKinnon. Put the events of the past few months very succinctly and with real Thistle passion. Throws a shining light on the people who hold the stewardship of our beloved club, in utter contempt.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

7 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

When Saturday Comes magazine 21st October edition had an article on the Jacqui Low - Jags Trust - TJF battle

https://twitter.com/_neilcowan/status/1583352006734815232?t=Hq_Bpccc1MRcT5Wxh2aQqg&s=19

This bit still makes me chuckle

"Out of courtesy, I sent her a draft of the article. She replied with comments including a reference to taking legal action.  They also included a demand I remove a reference to her as a ‘former Tory special adviser.’ This is despite her being a former Tory special adviser."

Edited October 28, 2022 by Lambies Lost Doo

[Lenziejag]

12 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

This bit still makes me chuckle

"Out of courtesy, I sent her a draft of the article. She replied with comments including a reference to taking legal action.  They also included a demand I remove a reference to her as a ‘former Tory special adviser.’ This is despite her being a former Tory special adviser."

Disclaimer- I haven’t read the article or am I a Jacqui Low supporter. Is the reference to being a former Tory special advisor relevant to the article ? If not,It was probably fair to ask for it not to be included. The manner, though, is another matter. Maybe, the continuing pressure is getting to her. I suppose the challenge will be how to keep that pressure up.

[stolenscone]

3 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Disclaimer- I haven’t read the article or am I a Jacqui Low supporter. Is the reference to being a former Tory special advisor relevant to the article ? If not,It was probably fair to ask for it not to be included. The manner, though, is another matter. Maybe, the continuing pressure is getting to her. I suppose the challenge will be how to keep that pressure up.

 

I think that you might have a point about the relevance of the line, LJ - in Scotland, it would be viewed as pejorative by a lot of people - but I guess that's an editorial decision by the writer, and it is factually correct. 

I have had the misfortune to see the pre-publication exchange with Neil, though. Coming from the chair of a company to a customer of that company, it's pretty unedifying.  I think that most people would expect to be up before HR, at the very least, if they spoke to a customer like that in their day job.  As a supporter, it makes me feel quite sad that we have come to this.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Actually the reference to being a Tory special advisor is not totally irrelevant. It adds texture to the narrative so to speak. A sub editor may well run his blue pencil thru it, but that would be to reduce the word count rather than a matter of irrelevance.

More enlightening is the objection to the phrase and what appears to be a heavy handed backlash. If this had been an article in a broadsheet then the objections may have provoked further interest from the newspaper.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I agree I'm not into bringing politics into football and the support will have people who vote for all manner of parties with vast majority only ever thinking about politics seriously whenever an election comes along 

I enjoyed the school boy cheekiness of the sentence.  Could be any political party or any job outside politics.  It was the way the comment was phrased.

[Woodstock Jag]

An "in-case-you-missed it" post.

Engagement with PTFC Trust

Last week we confirmed that there would be a face-to-face meeting with the PTFC Trust in the first week of November. We will seek to update our members based on the outcome of that meeting in due course.

Fan ownership developments

There isn't really very much to report on this yet (though I imagine there will be some soon).

As we indicated in our interview with James Cairney at the start of the month, The Jags Foundation wrote to the Scottish Football Association raising objections to the share transfer.

We were advised that the SFA would be considering the matter at its October board meeting. We haven't heard back from the SFA since receiving acknowledgment of our correspondence to them. We chased them for an update yesterday.

The PTFC Trust hasn't made any public statements since Tweeting and posting on Facebook about the Morton game on 1st October.

The Club hasn't said anything publicly about the fan ownership saga since announcing the share transfer on 20th September.

Directors of Three Black Cats haven't said anything since 24th September, when Jacqui Low gave an exclusive interview to the Daily Mail.

TJF in the media

The Jags Foundation website now has a dedicated "Media" section. It's full of links to print media articles about the fan ownership situation, as well as recent football podcast appearances from TJF board members bringing the Thistle story to a wider audience.

I would especially recommend Ian Mackinnon's appearances on  The Scottish Football Show in late September and The Price of Football Podcast a few days ago.

Sponsorship and Social Activities

TJF has, this month, sponsored two of the PTWFC games. There was the Dundee United game a fortnight ago.

And tomorrow evening's re-arranged fixture against Motherwell is also sponsored by us.

We are also organising a World Cup gathering for London and South East England-based Thistle fans in late November.

Members-only communications

Earlier this month, our Chair, Sandy Fyfe, attended a panel debate on "who owns football". He reported back his reflections on that debate to members. We are seeking to build the membership package with member-specific content like this.

Thistle Pins

We now have a dedicated page on the website with up-to-date news on the distribution of Thistle Pins for members who have purchased them.

The next Thistle Pin will be announced very soon. We are currently waiting on our manufacturers to confirm completion and despatch.

Plenty more to come

There's plenty of TJF activity at the moment, and there's definitely more of interest to fans still to come in November. I'd strongly recommend that those who haven't joined already sign-up as a member of the Foundation or at least become a Friend of the Foundation.

We are aware that the Club is taking preparatory steps for its AGM and are planning accordingly to ensure that our members' interests are articulated and represented as and when that AGM comes.

We are developing a framework for participatory budgeting. This will give members direct influence over how the Foundation funds are used. We hope to bring more concrete information about this soon.

[Woodstock Jag]

The Jags Foundation are organising a London get-together during the World Cup for Nomadic Thistle fans in London and the South East of England.

We'll be at the Maple Leaf pub in Covent Garden to watch the France v Denmark and Argentina v Mexico games on Saturday 26th November.

If you live, or will be in the vicinity of, London that weekend, please do come along and share some good company with fellow Jags fans and hopefully even see some half decent football.

To find out more, check out our website https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/london-world-cup-gathering-saturday-26th-november/

Make sure to fill in the link to our form so that, if you want to hear more about events in London and the South of England, you're kept in the loop!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Have read report re meeting with The PTFC Trust. Whilst it could be construed that the Trust have made concessions they are in my mind kinda meaningless with the second red line (majority of trustees  be democratically elected by May 2023) being rejected. I'd give the notion that in refusal the Trust are adopting a delay and you'll go away approach. 

I sincerely wish TJF to continue and hope that the already impressive membership numbers increase.  We are far more than just a pressure group. The TJF are democratically elected and represent a huge chunk of OUR Club's adult fanbase.

The PTFC Trust remind me of parents who won't allow their kids to play with their birthday presents from their uncle till they're older. Secretly hoping that come the day the kids will have lost all interest in their presents. I've great faith that TJF will not allow proper fan ownership to be swept aside in such a manner.

Edited November 10, 2022 by admin
Jags Trust replaced by PTFC Trust

[Garscube Road End 2]

18 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Have read report re meeting with The Jags Trust. Whilst it could be construed that the Trust have made concessions they are in my mind kinda meaningless with the second red line (majority of trustees  be democratically elected by May 2023) being rejected. I'd give the notion that in refusal the Trust are adopting a delay and you'll go away approach. 

I sincerely wish TJF to continue and hope that the already impressive membership numbers increase.  We are far more than just a pressure group. The TJF are democratically elected and represent a huge chunk of OUR Club's adult fanbase.

The Jags Trust remind me of parents who won't allow their kids to play with their birthday presents from their uncle till they're older. Secretly hoping that come the day the kids will have lost all interest in their presents. I've great faith that TJF will not allow proper fan ownership to be swept aside in such a manner.

It is utterly reprehensible that they won't commit to elections. 

Despotism.

[javeajag]

The bit where the ask TJF for fundraising support is the bit that got me …. Financial support is dependent on democratic control and accountability …. No full elections , no cash.

[partickthedog]

28 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Have read report re meeting with The Jags Trust. Whilst it could be construed that the Trust have made concessions they are in my mind kinda meaningless with the second red line (majority of trustees  be democratically elected by May 2023) being rejected. I'd give the notion that in refusal the Trust are adopting a delay and you'll go away approach. 

I sincerely wish TJF to continue and hope that the already impressive membership numbers increase.  We are far more than just a pressure group. The TJF are democratically elected and represent a huge chunk of OUR Club's adult fanbase.

The Jags Trust remind me of parents who won't allow their kids to play with their birthday presents from their uncle till they're older. Secretly hoping that come the day the kids will have lost all interest in their presents. I've great faith that TJF will not allow proper fan ownership to be swept aside in such a manner.

Agreeing with all that you say. With apologies for being pedantic, your comments should be addressed against the PTFC Trust rather than the Jags Trust.

[Mr Scruff]

Thanks for the update from TJF.  As usual very thorough, professional and open.

That this stands in complete contrast to everything coming from both the current owners and board of the football club, throws into stark relief where we find ourselves.

What is abundantly clear is that there is no change coming at all.  We have a board who have no legitimacy and treat their fans with obvious contempt.  Smugly so.  We have an ownership model designed entirely to cement that in place and to offer no fan participation whatsoever (with the utter cheek to call it fan ownership).  We have an unelected, and obviously detached and hostile, group now underpinning the entire rotten structure.

In these circumstances I applaud the patient efforts of those Directors of the trust who are managing this engagement.  However, as the only ones with any legitimacy in this whole scenario, I fear that TJF may find itself being exploited by those whose only aim is to continue the status quo for their own perceived benefit.  If only by the simple fact that they’re not coming under any real pressure anywhere.

I don’t see any path to change in the current setup.  I don’t see any path to agitating or pushing for change without TJF and I don’t see the any way for that to happen.  I fear that we will drift along in mediocrity and apathy, with those running the club perfectly content in that being the goal.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Mr Scruff
typo

[stolenscone]

Two things immediately struck me:

1. That there was no reason given for a refusal to allow all PTFC Trust trustees to be re-elected next year. The only credible argument against this happening would be to try to say that the Trust needs continuity and stability to execute its plan, but since there is no sign of what the plan might be, and since by their own admission the current trustees were ill prepared to take on their roles, I can't see that argument would hold any water.

2. The sentiment that it's not appropriate for the majority shareholder to comment on the accounts. If it's not appropriate for the majority shareholder to hold a view on how the company is being run, then who does that fall to?  The sentiment itself is problematic, as it resonates with the ultra passive view of the shareholder's role, and is in large part what caused a credibility issue for the Jags Trust. Indeed, it's exactly this passive approach to the shareholding that causes me (and I suspect many others) the greatest concern in all of this. It's fair to say that the trustees have started poorly. It will be difficult for them to shake the tag that they are merely stooges for the club board, and that the whole concept of fan ownership is a sham. This sort of approach will only cement that view in the opinion of many.

[Mr Scruff]

12 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

Two things immediately struck me:

1. That there was no reason given for a refusal to allow all PTFC Trust trustees to be re-elected next year. The only credible argument against this happening would be to try to say that the Trust needs continuity and stability to execute its plan, but since there is no sign of what the plan might be, and since by their own admission the current trustees were ill prepared to take on their roles, I can't see that argument would hold any water.

2. The sentiment that it's not appropriate for the majority shareholder to comment on the accounts. If it's not appropriate for the majority shareholder to hold a view on how the company is being run, then who does that fall to?  The sentiment itself is problematic, as it resonates with the ultra passive view of the shareholder's role, and is in large part what caused a credibility issue for the Jags Trust. Indeed, it's exactly this passive approach to the shareholding that causes me (and I suspect many others) the greatest concern in all of this. It's fair to say that the trustees have started poorly. It will be difficult for them to shake the tag that they are merely stooges for the club board, and that the whole concept of fan ownership is a sham. This sort of approach will only cement that view in the opinion of many.

These are very valid and cogent points.

Both are entirely explainable by the fact that the only reason this setup exists is to underpin the current structure - nothing else.