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KILLY AWAY TOMORROW


Jimmy McD
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8 hours ago, Muscat Jag said:

Good overall performance.  Feeling a bit more positive about the season ahead after that.  Turner looks a different player through the middle.  Muirhead and Milne both top class, even Smith was half decent. Only downside was running out of steam in the last 15 mins.  Great fun winning the pens though.

I think IMC knows full well what Turner can do through the middle and that this is his strongest position.  I have been advocating, with many others on WAT that  he should be played in that position/role. However I also think IMC values what he gets from the Docherty-Bannigan partnership.

It seems to me that  IMC is being very loyal to Bannigan whom I think should be moved to the bench as the back up player in preference to a Docherty-Turner partnership in central midfield. 

Good performance last night and as much as I hate to admit it  I thought after looking again at the disallowed goals that the  assistant ref and Walsh,  whom I think is one of our poorer refs, got it right!

5 vg penalties as well - really thumped them into the net. Why the players' reaction to Hemmings? Was he sledging or do we just not like him?

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2 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I think IMC knows full well what Turner can do through the middle and that this is his strongest position.  I have been advocating, with many others on WAT that  he should be played in that position/role. However I also think IMC values what he gets from the Docherty-Bannigan partnership.

It seems to me that  IMC is being very loyal to Bannigan whom I think should be moved to the bench as the back up player in preference to a Docherty-Turner partnership in central midfield. 

Good performance last night and as much as I hate to admit it  I thought after looking again at the disallowed goals that the  assistant ref and Walsh,  whom I think is one of our poorer refs, got it right!

5 vg penalties as well - really thumped them into the net. Why the players' reaction to Hemmings? Was he sledging or do we just not like him?

Yes, I noticed the reaction of Aero, Brian and Kyle to the keeper when they scored their penalties. Hemmings must have been up to something.

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I think McCall has always known where he wanted to play Turner and that is as the central attacking midfielder.

For that role to work it needs wingers that occupy the opposition fullbacks and create space for Turner to run at the centre-backs. Last season with only one winger it meant one of the opposition fullbacks could sit higher and narrower which congested the midfield.

If we could find a quick striker who plays on the shoulder of the centre-half and stops the opposition centre-halfs going out to meet Turner then we may have the components for an extremely effective attack.

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11 hours ago, Muscat Jag said:

Good overall performance.  Feeling a bit more positive about the season ahead after that.  Turner looks a different player through the middle.  Muirhead and Milne both top class, even Smith was half decent. Only downside was running out of steam in the last 15 mins.  Great fun winning the pens though.

Much as I saw it.

The running out of steam bit I'm not so sure of tho'.  Same end result of course, but I thought it could be more to do with Killie's subs upping the tempo. We'd brought on two pacier players and Turner was very effective in the latter stages. Anyway main thing, we still had five players on the park fit enough, mentally & physically, to take the penalties. :)

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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20 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

I think Hemmings was mouthing to all the Jags penalty takers, telling them to put it to one side or the other.

Thought we looked very sharp and thankfully speedier than last season. Even Cammy Smith looked quite useful with some of his runs. Hope he can come good.

Hemmings was definitely 'sledging' however according to the Jagzone commentary the ref did nothing about it but warned Graham after he scored and had a pop back!

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10 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

I think Hemmings was mouthing to all the Jags penalty takers, telling them to put it to one side or the other.

Thought we looked very sharp and thankfully speedier than last season. Even Cammy Smith looked quite useful with some of his runs. Hope he can come good.

Smith does some things fairly well. But he's playing in an advanced midfield position, often quite close to Graham, where he should be getting shots in on goal. When close to goal he tends to miss target, take an extra touch or put in a weakened effort. Maybe he arrives too late? If Cammy was chipping in with a few goals he'd at least make his regular start more understandable, not dissimilar to when we had Shea Gordon. He does indeed make decent runs but maybe that would be more effective coming off the bench against a tiring defence?

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6 hours ago, sandy said:

It’s only taken the manager most of a season to realise Turner through the middle is better. Mostly good at corners and free kicks too.

I felt our bench was a bit inexperienced yesterday, we could do with a couple of signings that were not SEVCO loanees.

I actually thought the 2 Rangers lads did fine.  Yes they are young one only 18, the other 19 but they didn’t hide and weren’t afraid to get stuck in.  Both seemed to get on well with their team mates in contrast perhaps to others over the years who seemed to think they were too good to be here.

clearly both are not bulk bid but didn’t expect it at their ages.  Weston wasn’t afraid to run right at the defences and he won’t be playing defences as strong as Killie each week nor was he afraid to have a pop at goal, while he is of slighter build he looked really really fast and wasn’t easily brushed aside.

McKinnon also looked to be able to stand his ground against a few of the big Killie lads.

also bearing in mind one only arrived the day before and the other on the day of the game I think they will more than play their part this season 

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1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I actually thought the 2 Rangers lads did fine.  Yes they are young one only 18, the other 19 but they didn’t hide and weren’t afraid to get stuck in.  Both seemed to get on well with their team mates in contrast perhaps to others over the years who seemed to think they were too good to be here.

clearly both are not bulk bid but didn’t expect it at their ages.  Weston wasn’t afraid to run right at the defences and he won’t be playing defences as strong as Killie each week nor was he afraid to have a pop at goal, while he is of slighter build he looked really really fast and wasn’t easily brushed aside.

McKinnon also looked to be able to stand his ground against a few of the big Killie lads.

also bearing in mind one only arrived the day before and the other on the day of the game I think they will more than play their part this season 

The question as always though is, are they better than our own youngsters Stanway and Lyon ?

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6 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I think IMC knows full well what Turner can do through the middle and that this is his strongest position.  I have been advocating, with many others on WAT that  he should be played in that position/role. However I also think IMC values what he gets from the Docherty-Bannigan partnership.

It seems to me that  IMC is being very loyal to Bannigan whom I think should be moved to the bench as the back up player in preference to a Docherty-Turner partnership in central midfield. 

Good performance last night and as much as I hate to admit it  I thought after looking again at the disallowed goals that the  assistant ref and Walsh,  whom I think is one of our poorer refs, got it right!

5 vg penalties as well - really thumped them into the net. Why the players' reaction to Hemmings? Was he sledging or do we just not like him?

I've carried out a forensic examination of both offside decisions and the report is that they were both as tight as a duck's arse.  Honestly can't reach a definite conclusion after multiple freeze frames on both decisions.  When it's that tight think you have to cut the linesmen some slack and just accept what they decide.  Although not sure if I'd be saying that if we'd lost 2-1.  The linesman for their disallowed goal took a fair time thinking about it.

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37 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

The question as always though is, are they better than our own youngsters Stanway and Lyon ?

I usually ask that question re loanees. For instance I didn't see much difference between Calum Wilson and yon Palmer lad a few seasons back. In this case Stanway is only 17 and McKinnon 2 years older. Lyon plays in a different position to Weston and no reason they can't both play in the same side. I'm also led to believe Lyon and McKinnon are different types of midfielder but your question may be more pertinent here..

 

Off on a complete tangent but I thought for once our singing supporters were off the mark on occasions last night. One minute singing about Killie fans not been able to read. Next minute chanting "This is a Library". Make you're minds up, lads! :)

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20 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I usually ask that question re loanees. For instance I didn't see much difference between Calum Wilson and yon Palmer lad a few seasons back. In this case Stanway is only 17 and McKinnon 2 years older. Lyon plays in a different position to Weston and no reason they can't both play in the same side. I'm also led to believe Lyon and McKinnon are different types of midfielder but your question may be more pertinent here..

 

Off on a complete tangent but I thought for once our singing supporters were off the mark on occasions last night. One minute singing about Killie fans not been able to read. Next minute chanting "This is a Library". Make you're minds up, lads! :)

I had thought that Stanway looked good enough when he played at the tail end of last season and McCall was raving about Lyon last year before sending him out on loan. 

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5 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

I had thought that Stanway looked good enough when he played at the tail end of last season and McCall was raving about Lyon last year before sending him out on loan. 

That's true. He has also recently said Stanway has been "promoted" to squad player (or something along these lines). I don't believe that Lyon has progressed significantly yet and may need a further loan spell. 

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58 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

And the follow-up question is whether they will automatically be preferred as starters over our own youngsters.

I can see Stanway and Lyon going  out on loan. I think McCall hinted that he felt that McKenzie was the one that is ready to step into the first team squad. 

I think he feels that both Stanway and Lyon require regular game time and McKenzie, being younger, can be brought through gradually.

I may be wrong though.

Edited by Big Dan
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34 minutes ago, Big Dan said:

I can see Stanway and Lyon going  out on loan. I think McCall hinted that he felt that McKenzie was the one that is ready to step into the first team squad. 

I think he feels that both Stanway and Lyon require regular game time and McKenzie, being younger, can be brought through gradually.

I may be wrong though.

You might well be right. But why send our own players out on loan and prioritize giving game time to similar-aged youngsters who aren't considered mature enough for their own teams? 

To me that seems to be kneeling down before our "superiors" while at the same time reinforcing the vicious circle that sees them creaming off all the best players, and getting teams like us to do the development work for them!

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38 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

There is also an irony here, that, whilst Rangers have just ‘spirited away’ one of our own bright young prospects (Cameron Cooper) before he had time to even break sweat, wearing a Thistle first X1 shirt, they are happy to loan to us, two of their own young players! 
 

I often wonder the effect bringing in a loan player to a football club has on a player who is fully signed and already at a loaning club, playing in the same position. It ‘might’ make the player already at the club work harder to retain or win his place, but couldn’t it also act as a disincentive, in making the signed player feel he/she is just not valued/trusted/thought to be reliable enough. The ‘loan’ notion is a more modern phenomenon. I don’t think clubs did this much some years ago, unless they were in dire need eg no fit goalkeeper available. Now it has become almost the norm. For the mainly richer clubs, it’s ‘Try before you buy.’ For the poorer clubs, it’s ‘get a taste of a player’ who you won’t be able to afford to buy, they can help you out before they go back to their club a better player hopefully, or move elsewhere.’ Or, it can also  be, ‘try out this player for us  whilst we watch how they do with you, but to be honest, we don’t think they’re good enough for us’! But, for players occupying the same position at the club it certainly sends ‘a signal’ surely.

Yep. 

For me THEE loan players who improved our team beyond doubt we've had over the years amount to no more than Eddie Prudham ( oh, what might have been!) and Jukka Santala (actually loved the guy). Mayo looked decent, but cost us many points because of (at least four) stupid penalties. I for one am not disappointed that he's not with us again this year.

Really, who are the other loanees who have MADE A DIFFERENCE, rather than just slotted in and put in average performances one after the other?

 

Edited by Jaggernaut
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33 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Yep. 

For me THEE loan players who improved our team beyond doubt we've had over the years amount to no more than Eddie Prudham ( oh, what might have been!) and Jukka Santala (actually loved the guy). Mayo looked decent, but cost us many points because of (at least four) stupid penalties. I for one am not disappointed that he's not with us again this year.

Really, who are the other loanees who have MADE A DIFFERENCE, rather than just slotted in and put in average performances one after the other?

 

Peter Lindau on loan from Ayr. The greatest Swedish player to ever represent a Glasgow team!

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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

Yep. 

For me THEE loan players who improved our team beyond doubt we've had over the years amount to no more than Eddie Prudham ( oh, what might have been!) and Jukka Santala (actually loved the guy). Mayo looked decent, but cost us many points because of (at least four) stupid penalties. I for one am not disappointed that he's not with us again this year.

Really, who are the other loanees who have MADE A DIFFERENCE, rather than just slotted in and put in average performances one after the other?

 

Eddie prudham - the one that got away. What a player he might have been in red and yellow...

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