Options for action against the board

[Woodstock Jag]

I've just seen this thread.

How you wish to express displeasure at the current situation, and to whom, is ultimately a matter for each individual. As far as I am concerned, the primary responsibility for the current situation rests with (a) the Directors of Three Black Cats (b) the Club Board and (c) the anonymous third party group that is now the preferred recipient.

Club sponsors are not responsible for the way my colleagues were treated. They are put in a very difficult position by governance-related wrangling of this kind and many of them just want to support the Club in whatever way they can.

Sponsors absolutely do have power and influence, through their own wallets, but if you are of a mind to engage with them on this issue, please do so in a civil and polite way, and do not conduct yourselves in ways that might be construed (whether rightly or wrongly) as attempting to intimidate them or their businesses.

Quite besides the fact that we need not to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator, nuisance tactics probably won't work, will antagonise rather than win-over those sponsors, and that does nothing to advance the case we are making.

By all means, raise concerns, state your point of view, show your passion for our Club. But do it the right way.

[East Kent Jag II]

I am frustrated,  WJ, & my frustrations have got the better of me.  There is always the wish not to damage my club, but I am angry  at the board for their behaviour. 

I withdraw my thoughts , & I've removed the post content.

[Woodstock Jag]

Wasn't aimed at anyone in particular EKJ. Just a piece of friendly advice to those who want to feel able to do something constructive in the current situation.

[MarciaBlaine]

1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I've just seen this thread.

How you wish to express displeasure at the current situation, and to whom, is ultimately a matter for each individual. As far as I am concerned, the primary responsibility for the current situation rests with (a) the Directors of Three Black Cats (b) the Club Board and (c) the anonymous third party group that is now the preferred recipient.

Club sponsors are not responsible for the way my colleagues were treated. They are put in a very difficult position by governance-related wrangling of this kind and many of them just want to support the Club in whatever way they can.

Sponsors absolutely do have power and influence, through their own wallets, but if you are of a mind to engage with them on this issue, please do so in a civil and polite way, and do not conduct yourselves in ways that might be construed (whether rightly or wrongly) as attempting to intimidate them or their businesses.

Quite besides the fact that we need not to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator, nuisance tactics probably won't work, will antagonise rather than win-over those sponsors, and that does nothing to advance the case we are making.

By all means, raise concerns, state your point of view, show your passion for our Club. But do it the right way.

I agree that intimidation and nuisance for sponsors is counter productive. Sponsors certainly have leverage though, and polite interaction to, er, leverage their leverage (?) is entirely valid imo.

Edited August 10, 2022 by MarciaBlaine
Typo

[Lenziejag]

28 minutes ago, East Kent Jag II said:

Having got their quota of season ticket fans, it's difficult to choose a match to make a protest.

If I were on the Thistle  Board, the one match coming up where I would be concerned would be the League Cup 2nd Round tie versus Arbroath, at the end of the month .  No season tickets apply, and I'd find it hard to explain to the Arbroath Board over a cuppa why they are only getting the Cup minimum guarantee payment.

Hard on Arbroath, hard on our players, but I would find it hard to explain where all the fans are.

I'm not suggesting fans take this option, I'm only putting thoughts into words.

What would the litmus test be in terms of attendance ? It isn’t usually the best attended anyway. The group matches had something like 1200 and 1500 respectively? 

[MarciaBlaine]

Ok, here’s a concrete (and no doubt imperfect) suggestion:

Each fan goes to the next home game with one of those daft cardboard celebrity masks you get out of corner shops (or cuts one out of a bit of paper). On the 71st minute, the stand all put them on *backwards* to become “faceless fans for a faceless fans’ group” AND we become completely silent - “the silent majority”

It would get the message out about the chair’s attitude to us, the insufficiency of the solution proposed, our power as a bloc and would portray what the club is without us - eerily empty. Plus it’d provide a great video/visual stills for the press. 

Putting something out there anyhoo.

(I knew I’d seen this somewhere - Birmingham fans did something similar https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/birmingham-city-fans-hold-faceless-mask-protest-against-clubs-owners-before-sheffield-united-clash-3556268 )

[lady-isobel-barnett]

East Kent Jag II's correct re if you are going to boycott a home match it's best a cup game. Whether a ST holder turns up for a home league game or not is largely immaterial. They've already got our money.

[sandy]

26 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

East Kent Jag II's correct re if you are going to boycott a home match it's best a cup game. Whether a ST holder turns up for a home league game or not is largely immaterial. They've already got our money.

A cup game boycott is probably the easiest way to register a protest.

As is the withdrawal of any future monies that might have been allocated for player sponsorship etc. I’ve drawn a halt to my contributions having already paid Premium for Muirheads home top and Standard for Turner Away. That’s £600 the Club would not have received from me had 3BC made their decision public earlier. 

The only act of defiance I can now muster on the sponsorship I have out laid is to bring a mate to hospitality who can promise to drink the free bar dry

Edited August 10, 2022 by sandy
typo

[Lenziejag]

18 minutes ago, sandy said:

A cup game boycott is probably the easiest way to register a protest.

As is the withdrawal of any future monies that might have been allocated for player sponsorship etc. I’ve drawn a halt to my contributions having already paid Premium for Muirheads home top and Standard for Turner Away. That’s £600 the Club would not have received from me had 3BC made their decision public earlier. 

The only act of defiance I can now muster on the sponsorship I have out laid is to bring a mate to hospitality who can promise to drink the free bar dry

I am sure that even deep down while you were handing over the money you knew that the shares were not going to TJF. And this I think is the crux for jags fans. We want the best team we can get on the park and that means supporting the club financially.

[sandy]

6 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I am sure that even deep down while you were handing over the money you knew that the shares were not going to TJF. And this I think is the crux for jags fans. We want the best team we can get on the park and that means supporting the club financially.

Nope, I was genuinely hopeful that TJF would get the shares. I would not have handed over £600 had 3BC demonstrated integrity and told us a few weeks ago that TJF were not the preferred bidder.

It may sound a bit radical and perhaps even counterintuitive, but I am prepared to follow the ‘not another penny’ line firmly until 3BC realise what an a*rse they have made of things and change tack. 

Sure we all want the best team, but more importantly we want our Club back. It may be a long fight but I’m not budging on this matter.

 

PS my brother who doesn’t support the Jags has read the Herald article and thinks the Club is a farce. He’s right you know 

Edited August 10, 2022 by sandy

[thru thin and thin]

I don't believe boycotting a home match will bother our brass necked directors in anyway whatsoever!

Particularly concerned that such an action may have a negative impact on the players. Our best chance to win a trophy is in the cup competitions,  the team deserve a big support in the forthcoming cup tie against Arbroath. After all, the team and the fans are the club!

Let's get behind them!

I am not suggesting or condoning anything illegal, but why not get more personal targeting the two main cretins, businesses in Edinburgh? Away day in Edinburgh,  protesting and handing out leaflets outside Indigo and Murray Beath Murray offices - right to protest, and all that!

[CotterJag]

I usually take a pause from posting when negativity arises and I've done so in recent weeks.

I'm more interested in having a team to support than involving myself in legal matters that I'd never be able to get to the bottom of in order to make a decision one way or the other.

In any case, it feels like a lot of people have been spoiling for a fight for weeks.

Along with the usual sack the manager p1sh, we've been subjected to some utter cr4p about the detriment Gaelic signage will inflict on our Club.

We now have TJF v TBC and the mortal enemy that is Jaqui Low.

I really do hope that Colin Weir gets his wishes and that they are upheld by Partick Thistle. (Can it really be true that Partick comes up as a spelling mistake??)

I'm not against any form of ownership and want what's best for the team. I'm not sure if there's a call to make regarding the wishes of Colin Weir, if those wishes were not what's best for the Club.

Maybe that's what TBC are trying to do and maybe it's illegal.

Let's stay behind the team, in what could be a massive season. It won't be an easy atmosphere for the team to play in, if this ill feeling finds its way onto the pitch.  

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by CotterJag

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, thru thin and thin said:

I don't believe boycotting a home match will bother our brass necked directors in anyway whatsoever!

Particularly concerned that such an action may have a negative impact on the players. Our best chance to win a trophy is in the cup competitions,  the team deserve a big support in the forthcoming cup tie against Arbroath. After all, the team and the fans are the club!

Let's get behind them!

I am not suggesting or condoning anything illegal, but why not get more personal targeting the two main cretins, businesses in Edinburgh? Away day in Edinburgh,  protesting and handing out leaflets outside Indigo and Murray Beath Murray offices - right to protest, and all that!

Just to make myself clear that if boycotting/shunning a match is seen as the way to go then I suggest targeting a Cup game as being preferable. I personally don't think staying away from Firhill is the route to go down. Firstly I believe that increasing the TJF membership is a weapon in itself. Secondly and repeating myself yet again but from a matchday point of view our masters are at their most vulnerable within Hospitality.

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Just to make myself clear that if boycotting/shunning a match is seen as the way to go then I suggest targeting a Cup game as being preferable. I personally don't think staying away from Firhill is the route to go down. Firstly I believe that increasing the TJF membership is a weapon in itself. Secondly and repeating myself yet again but from a matchday point of view our masters are at their most vulnerable within Hospitality.

Agree with you LIB , boycotting games and even hitting our Club financially ( Sponsorship, Hospitality etc ) isn’t really going to make the slightest bit of difference because the main thing is Jaqui Lowe etc don’t really have a love for the Club as we do on here .

As far as I know Jaqui Lowe , Alan Rough etc have had no financial input but became directors through their contacts , not really sure what they bring to the table?

At least previous chairmen Beattie, Oliver , McMaster and even as far back as Miller Reid all had a love for our great Club and put their money where their mouth was .

Seems Jaqui Lowe is on some sort of power trip , we don’t want another Save the Jags scenario by cutting our Club off financially as none of the other directors will bale us out .

By all means target J Lowes primary Company Indigo or have a protest outside the ground on match days but making it financial will only damage our Club in the long term IMO

 

[sandy]

It’s a difficult one @jlsarmy. I hear what you say, but I still think that (sadly) money talks. Shut down some of the funding opportunities and it might, just might, force 3BC back to the table. 

I'm still raging 2 days on after what has happened. For an old git like myself, it cannae be good for my blood pressure. But I believe in what TJF were building as a viable fan ownership model. 

Power trips maybe part of what explains this all. But I wouldn’t advocate making it personal though. Let’s hit 3BC and the Club Board hard. A short sharp battle with everyone behind TJF will bring this to some kind of conclusion. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by sandy
cannae type after a glass of wine

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

Would a simple petition at the next home game not suffice?

Show our support for fan ownership / transparency  whilst also turning up to support the team as normal. No negativity, hits ‘here you go, here’s what the fans think’ after the game?

Elaborate ploys can end up looking a bit silly & rendered ineffective if only a handful participate. A lot of supporters still don’t use forums, FB, Twitter etc, but more than capable of adding their name to a pen & paper petition / survey at the ground.

 

[exiledjag]

16 hours ago, CotterJag said:

I usually take a pause from posting when negativity arises and I've done so in recent weeks.

I'm more interested in having a team to support than involving myself in legal matters that I'd never be able to get to the bottom of in order to make a decision one way or the other.

In any case, it feels like a lot of people have been spoiling for a fight for weeks.

Along with the usual sack the manager p1sh, we've been subjected to some utter cr4p about the detriment Gaelic signage will inflict on our Club.

We now have TJF v TBC and the mortal enemy that is Jaqui Low.

I really do hope that Colin Weir gets his wishes and that they are upheld by Partick Thistle. (Can it really be true that Partick comes up as a spelling mistake??)

I'm not against any form of ownership and want what's best for the team. I'm not sure if there's a call to make regarding the wishes of Colin Weir, if those wishes were not what's best for the Club.

Maybe that's what TBC are trying to do and maybe it's illegal.

Let's stay behind the team, in what could be a massive season. It won't be an easy atmosphere for the team to play in, if this ill feeling finds its way onto the pitch.  

 

Agree

[javeajag]

17 hours ago, CotterJag said:

I usually take a pause from posting when negativity arises and I've done so in recent weeks.

I'm more interested in having a team to support than involving myself in legal matters that I'd never be able to get to the bottom of in order to make a decision one way or the other.

In any case, it feels like a lot of people have been spoiling for a fight for weeks.

Along with the usual sack the manager p1sh, we've been subjected to some utter cr4p about the detriment Gaelic signage will inflict on our Club.

We now have TJF v TBC and the mortal enemy that is Jaqui Low.

I really do hope that Colin Weir gets his wishes and that they are upheld by Partick Thistle. (Can it really be true that Partick comes up as a spelling mistake??)

I'm not against any form of ownership and want what's best for the team. I'm not sure if there's a call to make regarding the wishes of Colin Weir, if those wishes were not what's best for the Club.

Maybe that's what TBC are trying to do and maybe it's illegal.

Let's stay behind the team, in what could be a massive season. It won't be an easy atmosphere for the team to play in, if this ill feeling finds its way onto the pitch.  

 

The danger with this approach is you don’t really care who owns the club till the PT Trust have a majority shareholding and can literally do what they want with it …. Like sell it but by then it’s too late 

[AlgarveJag]

I’m as baffled and confused by the 3BC’s announcement as anyone, and I see TJF as currently the only fan group with any legitimate claim to being engaged with all sections of the Firhill Faithful (it’s not an easy task to raise a volunteer army).  But, I also think a calm head, identifying a real enemy (if there is one), and their numbers,  is critical to survival before going over the top and running headlong into the barrage with a blindfold on.

I’d put these points forward for consideration 

1  If you own something and you want to give it away, it’s up to you who you give it to (and you don’t have to explain your reason to anyone).

2  It is normal for the transfers of assets (shares etc) to be negotiated in private and not made public until ALL is agreed (TJF had no option but to be public in order to garner numbers to support their bid).

3  It’s unwise to act in haste until we are aware of ALL of the facts and decisions made (assuming all will become clearer, ahead of ICT on the 19th as promised).  Let’s be in the fact zone first.

 

All that said, I’m extremely disappointed that a “communications professional with 30 years experience”* has failed to engage with fans in the way she promised she would do when co-opted to the board, the first time round.  It’s ironic that a media professional is centre ring of a media circus disaster.

I’m already a TJF donor and I hope the Foundation will continue to grow and become an important voice, regardless of share ownership, for a very large section of fans that already appreciate the engagement that is taking place.  It’s been a long journey already so let’s be patient for one more week.

 

*www.ptfc.co.uk

[stolenscone]

10 minutes ago, AlgarveJag said:

 

1  If you own something and you want to give it away, it’s up to you who you give it to (and you don’t have to explain your reason to anyone).

2  It is normal for the transfers of assets (shares etc) to be negotiated in private and not made public until ALL is agreed (TJF had no option but to be public in order to garner numbers to support their bid).

Sorry to selectively quote, but just to comment on these two points:

1. The person gifting the shares has sadly passed away. The executor has a duty to deal with the estate's assets in accordance with that person's wishes. We don't (and probably never will have) complete visibility on what Mr Weir instructed should be done.

2. I may be wrong, but my take is that TJF chose to engage with supporters, rather than it being forced on them to drum up numbers. Given that we are talking about fan ownership, it seems odd to represent a body of people without trying to engage with them.  Woodstock made the point several times that they wanted to try to keep supporters as informed as possible,  while respecting the process that they were undertaking with 3BC. I guess it's for individuals to decide whether they made a fair job of walking that line, but I saw enough to suggest to me that they tried very hard to navigate that.

[AlgarveJag]

@stolenscone

Completely agree.

Just to be a pedant.  Yes, the shares are now owned by a legal entity, The Estate, and the executors must act in line with the deceased’s wishes but that is where a practical interpretation of those wishes is required as there was a work in progress that Colin Weir presumably intended to see through to completion himself.  I’d suggest that Jacquie Low, working closely with Colin as a trusted adviser in the past, should be considered the person o likely to understand what his intentions and wishes were and how they would be realised.  She is most qualified to know how truthful she is being to those wishes (whether we like it or not).

And I share your take, in that in 45 years of supporting the Jags, I haven’t seen a more committed group of volunteers galvanising supporters and engaging with the lifeblood of the club, the fans.

I’m extremely curious to see the nature of an organisation that currently doesn’t have that engagement, and how it will satisfy, what many people outside the circle of trust believe to be, Colin’s wishes.

[sandy]

TJF have been a breath of fresh air. Lots of fan engagement has been attempted in the past, but the current TJF ‘nine’ have energy, professionalism and are committed to the Jags. 

We need to work with them to bring about meaningful change. 

[Jaggy1967]

Sandy I feel your statement regarding the TJF 'nine'  board is quite wrong and disrespectful,  the current board have gotten no further in reality than the previous board did.

Correct me if I am wrong ?

Yes membership now at 700 when it was around 600 previously increased massively since put down to a pound which I think is a masterstroke and should swell the numbers

[Woodstock Jag]

24 minutes ago, Jaggy1967 said:

Sandy I feel your statement regarding the TJF 'nine'  board is quite wrong and disrespectful,  the current board have gotten no further in reality than the previous board did.

Correct me if I am wrong ?

Yes membership now at 700 when it was around 600 previously increased massively since put down to a pound which I think is a masterstroke and should swell the numbers

You know what: in a sense you are right. We are no closer to a deal on proper authentic fan ownership being agreed to by 3BC than we were four months ago when 3BC unceremoniously terminated the process with our predecessors.

But a lot has changed. At that point, TJF membership was languishing below 450 members. Now it is 730 and rising. Of those, less than 100 are on the £1 rate, and a significant number of those who signed up this week opted for general or concessionary memberships. We've gone from raising about £4.5k per month in pledges in April to over £6k per month in pledges.

We've got the governance sorted out. We've got a proper vision statement. We've got a motivated group of leaders with a democratic mandate. We've got genuine and expansive engagement with the fanbase. A buzz of excitement through social events and initiatives like the McParland Pin.

We have set the standard, very publicly, for what Thistle fans should demand from fan ownership. And we have people willing to hold the feet of our custodians to the fire to deliver on what was promised to fans back in 2019.

It's not where we all wanted to be, but as and when 3BC realise that what they're proposing to do isn't going to fly, we will have a best of class fan ownership vehicle waiting and ready provide them a way out of the hole that they have dug for themselves.

[Lenziejag]

34 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

You know what: in a sense you are right. We are no closer to a deal on proper authentic fan ownership being agreed to by 3BC than we were four months ago when 3BC unceremoniously terminated the process with our predecessors.

But a lot has changed. At that point, TJF membership was languishing below 450 members. Now it is 730 and rising. Of those, less than 100 are on the £1 rate, and a significant number of those who signed up this week opted for general or concessionary memberships. We've gone from raising about £4.5k per month in pledges in April to over £6k per month in pledges.

We've got the governance sorted out. We've got a proper vision statement. We've got a motivated group of leaders with a democratic mandate. We've got genuine and expansive engagement with the fanbase. A buzz of excitement through social events and initiatives like the McParland Pin.

We have set the standard, very publicly, for what Thistle fans should demand from fan ownership. And we have people willing to hold the feet of our custodians to the fire to deliver on what was promised to fans back in 2019.

It's not where we all wanted to be, but as and when 3BC realise that what they're proposing to do isn't going to fly, we will have a best of class fan ownership vehicle waiting and ready provide them a way out of the hole that they have dug for themselves.

I applaud your optimism, but I am not sure I share it. I don’t think that 3BC and the PTFC board care what TJF are doing. 
I think the guy(Stuart ?)on the podcast the other day was a bit more realistic. If things come home to roost at PTFC, at the very least the funds that are being collected at the moment will be a very welcome fighting fund in trying to save the jags again.That is if the members decide that is what the funds should be used for.