Dialogue With The Group Chosen By 3BCs/ PTFC Board To Receive The 55% Shareholding In PTFC

[denismcquadeno.eleven]

I’d be interested to know, from anybody on here who actually met any of the individuals leading the Thistle Trust, what did they say?

For example:

A) How did they justify their actions over the period when they were negotiating in secret with 3BCs, without any attempt to connect with the wider Thistle fanbase (as TJF did)?

B ) Did they not not think a fans organisation with over 800 members, would better serve the interests and views of that large percentage of the fanbase?

C) How do they reconcile ‘their’  agreed ‘version’ of fan ownership of a football club, with the fact it is a very different ‘model’ (if indeed it can be called a model) from those elsewhere in Scottish football. (and the wider football world in the UK? )

D) Do they not think, in effect, they’ve simply been ‘used’ by those in the Firhill boardroom, who simply want to hold on to control and power at Firhill, and continue with things (more or less) how they’ve been done previously?

E) What changes, new ideas have they got to bring to the table, for change in the way things are done at Firhill, giving Thistle supporters a greater say in their football club (if any)?

F) Finally, if they have no new PTFC board members, how can they effect such change(s), when these suggestions/ideas can simply be ruled out without vote or discussion by those who sit in the boardroom? Etc 

Edited September 6, 2022 by denismcquadeno.eleven

[Woodstock Jag]

Denis. For the love of god please.

Paragraphs.

Short sentences.

My head hurts!

[erty13]

Where did the trust sit during the match.

In with the fans, or with the directors. 

[Fawlty Towers]

I was not at the game last evening but have seen a few posts on twitter from people who where there and spoke to the PTFC Trust guys. Not very encouraging would be one way of describing their feedback. I have attached this because the person involved is someone who I had worked with when involved with The Jags Trust several years ago and is a guy I have a lot of respect for so his assessment is one I take very seriously.

Click on the Read Reply button for the full discussion

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Fawlty Towers

[MarciaBlaine]

Worth reading his whole thread for sure: 

 

[sandy]

26 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Worth reading his whole thread for sure: 

 

Absolutely.

Martin is a good guy and he nails the issues. PTFC Trust comes across as rather naive in terms of the responsibilities that are taking on, and also in terms of how well they can keep the Club Board accountable.

Its crazy that they are possibly going to have to recreate some of the TJF proposed approach if they are serious about making a good job of their role. Crazy because TJF have it there ready to implement. 

Oh and the PTFC Trust have no idea where that £500k came from last year to keep us £6k in the black? Really? They should be asking 3BC about that donation. For without it we’d be in debt shit again.  And what if we don’t have another donation this year or next? 

Edited August 20, 2022 by sandy
added financial bit

[Fawlty Towers]

Another fan that spoke to the PTFC Trust guys last evening has given some feedback. A sports agency and a current PTFC director involved with PTFC Trust.

 

[scotty]

12 minutes ago, sandy said:

Absolutely.

Martin is a good guy and he nails the issues. PTFC Trust comes across as rather naive in terms of the responsibilities that are taking on, and also in terms of how well they can keep the Club Board accountable.

Its crazy that they are possibly going to have to recreate some of the TJF proposed approach if they are serious about making a good job of their role. Crazy because TJF have it there ready to implement. 

Oh and the PTFC Trust have no idea where that £500k came from last year to keep us £6k in the black? Really? They should be asking 3BC about that donation. For without it we’d be in debt shit again.  And what if we don’t have another donation this year or next? 

Maybe the PTFC trustees will keep the club debt free out of their own pockets. Like they are paying all the legal fees themselves?

[Garscube Road End 2]

Within his posts he also alludes to the involvement of an agent of 5/6 players who was a go between of the Trust and a board director.

 A set up otherwise. 

I believe that person to be Stewart McGregor of Ark Sport.

I replied to a comment of his on Facebook last night, calling PTFC Trust charlatans.

This morning he personally nessaged me to protest at that comment, saying he had nothing to do with the Trust.

 

I have doubts of his veracity on the issue.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Quoting a tweet from a Mr McKenna questioning a PTFC Trustee spokesperson. 

Quote

I asked this. Initially work was done pro-bono, now they have retained lawyers it's currently being self funded by the 5 trustees. I pressed on this and was told they are all using their own money and there is no 3rd party providing funds for this.

I don't assume the cost of lawyers will be inexpensive and, even when split five ways, will likely be a considerable individual cash outlay. Whilst anyone spending their hard earned money on something at least they may believe is for the betterment of the Jags is admirable, it also raises a few questions. 

Does this mean if one of the five were to resign would a new trustee, say someone with a similar skillset, be elevated from the rank & file of the Jags support? If that be the case would the new trustee be expected to contribute to this legal fund?  Put another way would a new trustee be appointed purely on his/her relevant abilities? 

Edited August 20, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[sandy]

10 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Another fan that spoke to the PTFC Trust guys last evening has given some feedback. A sports agency and a current PTFC director involved with PTFC Trust.

 

The most revealing phrase on that thread is ‘patsy’. I don’t think the PTFC Trust realise they are being played by the Board. 

[sandy]

4 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Quoting a tweet from a Mr McKenna questioning a PTFC Trustee spokesperson. 

I don't assume the cost of lawyers will be inexpensive and, even when split five ways, will likely be a considerable individual cash outlay. Whilst anyone spending their hard earned money on something at least they may believe is for the betterment of the Jags is admirable, it also raises a few questions. 

Does this mean if one of the five were to resign would a new trustee, say someone with a similar skillset, be elevated from the rank & file of the Jags support? If that be the case would the new trustee be expected to contribute to this legal fund?  Put another way would a new trustee be appointed purely on his/her relevant abilities? 

Good points ‘lady. There is also the issue of who is chosen to become the 6th member of the PTFC Trust to replace the one they carelessly lost.

Will they consult with fans before this replacement is chosen? Is a pre-requisite of the role that they have personal funds to be able to contribute to the cost of lawyers ? 

[scotty]

3 minutes ago, sandy said:

Good points ‘lady. There is also the issue of who is chosen to become the 6th member of the PTFC Trust to replace the one they carelessly lost.

Will they consult with fans before this replacement is chosen? Is a pre-requisite of the role that they have personal funds to be able to contribute to the cost of lawyers ? 

It's not just lawyers that will uncur costs when running any sort of trust. I'm sure TJF will have had to lay out to organise an EGM, contact members, initial outlay for pin badges, printing etc, etc. At least they are openly raising funds and telling members what they are spending. As for PTFC Trust?

[Woodstock Jag]

The most interesting bit about the thread mentioned above is actually this:

 

Especially part 2.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Further, my faint recollections re when the PTFC Trust came about a spokesperson for them stated that they had zero funds and were not a vehicle for raising any. 

[Dougall]

Would it be possible for TJF to present a consolidated list of questions to the PTFC trust and then publish the answers back to the fans, they are the only organisation that has demonstrated an ability to engage with the fans in an open manner. Currently all of the information is spread across multiple posts and multiple social media platforms.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Dougall

[Woodstock Jag]

1 minute ago, Dougall said:

Would it be possible for TJF present a consolidated list of questions to the PTFC trust and then publish the answers back to the fans, they are the only organisation that has demonstrated an ability to engage with the fans in an open manner. Currently all of the information spread across multiple posts and multiple social media platforms.

We have a set of questions in this document, almost all which remain pertinent and unanswered:

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/tjfs-appraisal-of-the-preferred-recipient-announcement/

[eljaggo]

There may be a bigger issue about the PTFC Trust's ownership of 75% of Club shares. Could they argue at some point in the future that it is in the interest of season ticket holders that the shares be sold to a third party.  The mention by Stuthejag of a football agent's involvement is concerning.  That coupled to a lack of control by season ticket holders could spell the end of Colin Weir's project.

Therefore I think we need, among all the other questions, to know whether the Trustees have the power to sell their/our shares.

[MarciaBlaine]

29 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

There may be a bigger issue about the PTFC Trust's ownership of 75% of Club shares. Could they argue at some point in the future that it is in the interest of season ticket holders that the shares be sold to a third party.  The mention by Stuthejag of a football agent's involvement is concerning.  That coupled to a lack of control by season ticket holders could spell the end of Colin Weir's project.

Therefore I think we need, among all the other questions, to know whether the Trustees have the power to sell their/our shares.

Yes, the type of question that would be answered by publishing the current (never mind next) iteration of the Trust Deed. Under the last publicised version, I believe the directors had, in theory, the power to do this.

eta: I’ve no reason to think they would. They seem to come across as perfectly nice guys who are over their heads. But they won’t be there forever so we need to know how this is set up structurally.

Edited August 20, 2022 by MarciaBlaine

[eljaggo]

The TJS's set of questions to the PTFC Trust is certainly comprehensive, but I wonder whether fewer questions targetting their relationship with the Club Board at this stage might have been more productive.  The issue of Trustees' communication with fans is an important, but secondary one at the moment.  We urgently need to know who appoints and discards the Trustees, and who is framing the Trust's new Deed.

It  will be more difficult for the Trust to avoid answering a few critical questions, than answering TJF's raft of questions.

Edited August 20, 2022 by eljaggo

[denismcquadeno.eleven]

3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Denis. For the love of god please.

Paragraphs.

Short sentences.

My head hurts!

Better?

[sandy]

2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

The most interesting bit about the thread mentioned above is actually this:

 

Especially part 2.

The naivety  of the PTFC Trust even extends to confirming what we actually suspected. They are mere Pawns in a bigger game of chess.

Edited August 20, 2022 by sandy
early onset of nativity

[Woodstock Jag]

4 minutes ago, sandy said:

The nativity of the PTFC Trust even extends to confirming what we actually suspected. They are mere Pawns in a bigger game of chess.

Now there's an idea for some Boxing Day half-time entertainment.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

23 minutes ago, sandy said:

The nativity of the PTFC Trust even extends to confirming what we actually suspected. 

Think we all realise the PTFC Trust is shrouded in secrecy.  Nothing really surprises me these days, but revealing the Baby Jesus as a beneficiary will take some beating.

[sandy]

1 minute ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Think we all realise the PTFC Trust is shrouded in secrecy.  Nothing really surprises me these days, but revealing the Baby Jesus as a beneficiary will take some beating.

It will be Jesus plus a couple of donkeys. No wise men tho