Manager's Position

[Fawlty Towers]

2 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

No but our first consideration should be to who has managed and has been successful and affordable and Imrie ticks those boxes before any of the assistants or coaches you mentioned 

He has recently signed an extension to his contract so not sure if he would be affordable given we would have to pay off our management team but I am not really arguing with you, just trying to show there are other names out there than the "tried and tested" that various bookies put out every time a job becomes available.

[laukat]

Imrie's track history is interesting when you look at how to identify potential.

He was as a player a very hard worker, like to mix it physically and wasn't a stranger to referees. Don't think you could ever call his playing side silky and he was rarely involved in playing attractive football.

He then went as a coach to Livingston who have under David Martindale who has perfected a style of football that is all about hard work and making up for lack of skill by being physically fitter and more committed than most.

Imrie and Morton are a decent fit. Morton have been so bereft of success and have so little money that they don't care a jot about the style of football as long as it keeps them away from the relegation zone in the championship.

I think Imrie would struggle at a bigger championship club because the expectation is to win the title and play a decent brand of football. I could see Imrie being successful at a lower end Premier league club like Ross County, Kilmarnock, Motherwell where again results is all that matters.

For Thistle we need a manager who has can organise a team, can win the championship and can play reasonably attractive football. Lennon did that with Hibs and Ross did that with St Mirren.

If we're looking for a novice that has that sort of track history as a player and is has some coaching experience its a bit more difficult. Maybe Scott McDonald or Stephen Naismith fall in that category.

[Aliballibee]

41 minutes ago, laukat said:

For Thistle we need a manager who has can organise a team, can win the championship and can play reasonably attractive football. Lennon did that with Hibs and Ross did that with St Mirren

Can't remember where I read it, might even have been on here, but when Jack Ross left St Mirren it was touted that his assistant ot coach was the catalyst and not him. After leaving St Mirren and not doing much after it seems there might be truth in that; personally I wouldn't touch him. 

[jlsarmy]

46 minutes ago, laukat said:

Imrie's track history is interesting when you look at how to identify potential.

He was as a player a very hard worker, like to mix it physically and wasn't a stranger to referees. Don't think you could ever call his playing side silky and he was rarely involved in playing attractive football.

He then went as a coach to Livingston who have under David Martindale who has perfected a style of football that is all about hard work and making up for lack of skill by being physically fitter and more committed than most.

Imrie and Morton are a decent fit. Morton have been so bereft of success and have so little money that they don't care a jot about the style of football as long as it keeps them away from the relegation zone in the championship.

I think Imrie would struggle at a bigger championship club because the expectation is to win the title and play a decent brand of football. I could see Imrie being successful at a lower end Premier league club like Ross County, Kilmarnock, Motherwell where again results is all that matters.

For Thistle we need a manager who has can organise a team, can win the championship and can play reasonably attractive football. Lennon did that with Hibs and Ross did that with St Mirren.

If we're looking for a novice that has that sort of track history as a player and is has some coaching experience its a bit more difficult. Maybe Scott McDonald or Stephen Naismith fall in that category.

Imrie is actually a bit longer in the tooth than you probably think , my nephew was coached by him at Hamilton for a couple of years and from what I’ve been told he definitely commands a respect , he then stepped up to be  assistant manager to Brian Rice until he left under dodgy circumstances, you’re quite right Davie Martindale gave him another chance as did Morton where he has done well .

 

 

 

[johnkebab71]

The three of them have to go 100%

[Thistle88]

6 hours ago, laukat said:

McCall's strength is in finding players and building a squad and to be fair the current squad is decent. He can build teams that play attractive football.

However today emphasised that building disciplined organised defensive structure is just a skill he doesn't have.

Don't care what injuries we have a reasonable coach should be able to park the bus and hold onto a 2 goal lead.

We now need a manager who can bring organisation, fight and discipline to a squad. If we find that we might just win this league.

Personally I think Neil Lennon might be what we need but equally Jack Ross would be a decent shout. Not sure if we could afford the compensation but Dougie Imrie might be worth considering.

Unfortunatley with Jlow in charge she'll probably try and get some brownie points form the media by appointing some unknown who is 'a la mode'

Neil Lennon? Please no.

[Thistle88]

My big problem with McCall is I want him to do well, and I think it slightly harms my judgment of how far he can take us. 
 

His signings have been Hit and miss and to be honest that’s always how I remember him being,! Personally I’d like him to own up to his mistakes this season that he has made and ask for a patience to have the January window to fix a few things. 
 

Starting the season with An unfit brownlie who I reckon I could outrun at the moment. Akinola who clearly has no confidence at all anymore and Sneddons situation at being dropped for Mitchell who has made a few howlers. 
 

His reaction to the game today makes what he has said is a happy dressing room seems anything but that.

[scotty]

3 hours ago, Thistle88 said:

My big problem with McCall is I want him to do well, and I think it slightly harms my judgment of how far he can take us. 
 

His signings have been Hit and miss and to be honest that’s always how I remember him being,! Personally I’d like him to own up to his mistakes this season that he has made and ask for a patience to have the January window to fix a few things. 
 

Starting the season with An unfit brownlie who I reckon I could outrun at the moment. Akinola who clearly has no confidence at all anymore and Sneddons situation at being dropped for Mitchell who has made a few howlers. 
 

His reaction to the game today makes what he has said is a happy dressing room seems anything but that.

I tend towards the same opinion of McCall but I think his biggest mistake is with his 2 coaches. I don't really know much about Scally but there seems to have been a pattern of Thistle teams starting seasons strong then dropping off after a couple of months as long as Archibald has been involved.

On the other hand maybe it is McCall who is calling it wrong in picking unbalanced teams against the better judgment of his coaches. And I include the choice of keeper.

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

His time is up. The same old story this season as last. He hasn't a clue how to sort it and his two coaches( a ridiculous financial situation for a club with our finances) seem out of their depth. Archibald is weaving his magical spell of failure. He should never have been given a job back at Firhill. 

Injuries aside, these results were coming. We have had a few good displays,  but generally we have been poor, in a poor league.

Of course, I don't expect him to leave of his own volition or be sacked.

Just confirms that these people are just taking the club for a ride while we generally sit back and swallow it.

Pathetic club going the way of Clyde.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

7 hours ago, Aliballibee said:

Can't remember where I read it, might even have been on here, but when Jack Ross left St Mirren it was touted that his assistant ot coach was the catalyst and not him. After leaving St Mirren and not doing much after it seems there might be truth in that; personally I wouldn't touch him. 

Not much since leaving St.Mirren ?

A 50% win rate at Sunderland over 75 games (just 10 defeats) and an EFL cup final 

A 50% win rate at Hibs over 96 games including a Scottish Cup final 

If that is “not doing much” then bring it on.

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

I hear Jackie McNamara has a new business interest in Glasgow… Would he be welcomed back?

[Lenziejag]

4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Not much since leaving St.Mirren ?

A 50% win rate at Sunderland over 75 games (just 10 defeats) and an EFL cup final 

A 50% win rate at Hibs over 96 games including a Scottish Cup final 

If that is “not doing much” then bring it on.

Is 50% win rate good enough to win the league - genuine question 

[Dick Dastardly]

17 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Is 50% win rate good enough to win the league - genuine question 

McCall is around 40%

I’ve gone back to Davie McParland and I can’t find a Thistle manager with a 50% win rate. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Dick Dastardly

[Dick Dastardly]

I see that 8 have voted to give him to the end of the season. I assume that they are fans of other clubs, but I’d love to see someone try to justify it.

[Big Wull]

15 hours ago, Anniesland Jag said:

Ok ,let’s say McCall and his team go ….where do we get the money to pay them off and who do we realistically replace to them with who is out there and available ?

im always available

[dibble]

So McCall did a great job getting us back into the championship and we shouldn’t forget that.  Looks broken in the post match interview . Shame as he is such a big thistle fan and has had some real rotten luck with injuries in the last month.  Can see why people want change but getting someone new in also brings risks. Tricky one. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

11 hours ago, Big Col said:

Just wondering if any of the people who want to give them the full season care to explain their reasoning?

 

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I see that 8 have voted to give him to the end of the season. I assume that they are fans of other clubs, but I’d love to see someone try to justify it.

Similar to above. The only thing I can think of is they may feel the cost of pay off just now would impact so much on the new manager's budget we'd be worse of or no better squad wise. That would've some logic if there were two clubs completely adrift at the bottom of the league. They could also I suppose be wary of attracting the best of manager given the off field shenanigans.

My own view hasn't changed after yesterday. Even if we were top of the league plans have to made to replace McCall as he's not got the tactical nous for us to kick on from there. I'd rather there had been a fourth option. Move McCall sideways. He's good at attracting players to the Club and imaginative with contracts and the man management side of things. Bring in a Head Coach with sole responsibility for coaching, fitness and all matchday activity. I feel that going down this route greatly increases our chances of bringing in the necessary quality. 

Maybe slightly arguing against myself but we need to improve on our scouting and the late youth development. Other clubs in more provincial settings seem to attract talent from further afield. Being a city club it should in fact be easier for us to do the same.

[javeajag]

If you look at the last 6 league games we are bottom of the league with just 3 points. That in itself is concerning but is compounded by the fact that we have conceded most goals and have the worst goal difference as well.

clearly a number of things obviously emerge from this……

1. the problems are clearly in defense and more specifically the central defenders where preventing goals from set pieces has been an issue for quite a while.

2. we need a decent keeper who can come from cross balls and inspire some confidence in the defense

3. The squad isnt good enough…..we have 19 outfield players but given a free choice mccall won’t start with : Weston, Akinoka, Smith, Mullen or Fitzpatrick so that leaves just 14 players and we currently have 4 injuries for players who would start ….so the starting 11 almost pick themselves

4. it’s not clear that McCall knows what to do and with each defeat he seems more baffled which us not a good sign

5. we can’t go in like this and like every other club in the same situation has to make a call before the January transfer window

6, in my view we are usually loyal to mangers longer than we should be…..Archie should have gone after the 4-0 defeat away to Ross county and well Caldwell 

7. if we lose the next two league games that would 7 defeats in a row …..that’s hard to turn round 

 

[Grubber8468]

3 hours ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said:

I hear Jackie McNamara has a new business interest in Glasgow… Would he be welcomed back?

Yes for me!

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

27 minutes ago, javeajag said:

If you look at the last 6 league games we are bottom of the league with just 3 points. That in itself is concerning but is compounded by the fact that we have conceded most goals and have the worst goal difference as well.

clearly a number of things obviously emerge from this……

1. the problems are clearly in defense and more specifically the central defenders where preventing goals from set pieces has been an issue for quite a while.

2. we need a decent keeper who can come from cross balls and inspire some confidence in the defense

3. The squad isnt good enough…..we have 19 outfield players but given a free choice mccall won’t start with : Weston, Akinoka, Smith, Mullen or Fitzpatrick so that leaves just 14 players and we currently have 4 injuries for players who would start ….so the starting 11 almost pick themselves

4. it’s not clear that McCall knows what to do and with each defeat he seems more baffled which us not a good sign

5. we can’t go in like this and like every other club in the same situation has to make a call before the January transfer window

6, in my view we are usually loyal to mangers longer than we should be…..Archie should have gone after the 4-0 defeat away to Ross county and well Caldwell 

7. if we lose the next two league games that would 7 defeats in a row …..that’s hard to turn round 

 

Spot on. Nothing there to disagree with.

Numbers 1 & 2 are sort of the same thing & nothing has changed since the start of the season where it looked like the defence didn’t have a lot of confidence in Mitchell when he was conceding crazy goals even when we were winning games. 
 

So here’s the thing for me… 
 

Mitchell, ex Stranraer & season with Clyde is near enough his sum total of experience in the SPFL got the gig obviously being an ArkSports client. What’s going on behind the scenes that McCall continually picking him?

 

Something doesn’t sit right there especially when Sneddon was arguably our best player last season:. 

 

[Anniesland Jag]

1 hour ago, Big Wull said:

im always available

Naw ,yer just a tease .

[jlsarmy]

10 minutes ago, Bleeding Gums Murphy said:

Spot on. Nothing there to disagree with.

Numbers 1 & 2 are sort of the same thing & nothing has changed since the start of the season where it looked like the defence didn’t have a lot of confidence in Mitchell when he was conceding crazy goals even when we were winning games. 
 

So here’s the thing for me… 
 

Mitchell, ex Stranraer & season with Clyde is near enough his sum total of experience in the SPFL got the gig obviously being an ArkSports client. What’s going on behind the scenes that McCall continually picking him?

 

Something doesn’t sit right there especially when Sneddon was arguably our best player last season:. 

 

Last year , Jamie Sneddon improved as a keeper resulting in 7 or 8 clean sheets in a row and you could see his confidence growing.

Sneddon is young for a keeper and will keep improving, McCall has shot his confidence totally by dropping him all the time.

At his age , Mitchell won’t get better , what you see is what you get .

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Last year , Jamie Sneddon improved as a keeper resulting in 7 or 8 clean sheets in a row and you could see his confidence growing.

Sneddon is young for a keeper and will keep improving, McCall has shot his confidence totally by dropping him all the time.

At his age , Mitchell won’t get better , what you see is what you get .

Which makes the continual picking of him as first choice all the more bizarre.
Think we all know McCall not a fan of Sneddon as started with the Hearts boy Stone last season before he was injured.
 

Sneddon (& defence in general) confidence is shot & the last line of defence is a big factor in that. 
 

He can put his hand up & apologise all he wants but it is happening every other week. 
Next week’s GK selection will tell us a lot. 
 

Funny smell at Firhill these days & not the canal. 

[Jimbo]

54 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

 

Similar to above. The only thing I can think of is they may feel the cost of pay off just now would impact so much on the new manager's budget we'd be worse of or no better squad wise. That would've some logic if there were two clubs completely adrift at the bottom of the league. They could also I suppose be wary of attracting the best of manager given the off field shenanigans.

My own view hasn't changed after yesterday. Even if we were top of the league plans have to made to replace McCall as he's not got the tactical nous for us to kick on from there. I'd rather there had been a fourth option. Move McCall sideways. He's good at attracting players to the Club and imaginative with contracts and the man management side of things. Bring in a Head Coach with sole responsibility for coaching, fitness and all matchday activity. I feel that going down this route greatly increases our chances of bringing in the necessary quality. 

Maybe slightly arguing against myself but we need to improve on our scouting and the late youth development. Other clubs in more provincial settings seem to attract talent from further afield. Being a city club it should in fact be easier for us to do the same.

At the end of last week's match against Raith & yesterday I was neither angry nor particularly disappointed. What does this say? I have next to no expectation that we will salvage anything from any game as we have neither the tactical nous nor quality on the bench to do so. 

I've never been in the 'McCall Out' camp but his team selection & substitutions are becoming more & more bizarre. When our centre back was stupidly sent off yesterday what do we do? Replace him with the centre back on the bench? No, we bring on a 17yo midfielder for what was effectively his competitive debut & play him at right back leaving us with 2 full backs in a back three. I know Akinola has regressed but he did have a decent game in a back three at Ayr.

Finally just listened to McCall on Jagzone. He consistently said we were 'great' in the first half. Really? From where I was sitting 2-0 flattered us. And just to add to the misery, I thought our defence was unable to cope with  Rudden's movement

[laukat]

3 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

At this point-22 voted for immediate dismissal and 19 didn’t. This seems a fairly even split with a less than emphatic majority favouring the first option. This probably accurately reflects the views of PTFC fans over a range of issues. Diverse, rarely united when it comes to opinion, which probably suits the management (Board) of the club down to the ground. (And always has!) NB: I haven’t voted, nor will I.

Looking at the manager’s post-match video, he looked broken and distressed. Sad to see anyone looking like that. However, he did have it in him to face the camera so fair play to him for that. Why anyone would want to be a football team manager sometimes puzzles me. It almost always ends in tears, even for the very successful ones.

Conversely 36 out of 46 or nearly 80% have only given him to the end of November.

I choose the option to give him until the end of November because failure to get points at home against Arbroath and progress in the cup against Kelty is a minimum requirement no matter what injuries we have. 

By the end of November we will have played 7 games without Holt and Docherty. If he can't figure out how to fix the current problems by then I think its more than fair to say he's never going to.

On a related note - has anyone any idea what Docherty and Graham's injuries are? I've not seen anything that gives a clue on whats up with them or when they are likely to return.

I know Holt's out for 8 to 12 weeks which means he's probably not back until January. With Muirhead's upcoming suspension and potentially Bannigan injured I'm surprised we haven't brought in a free agent. Someone like Kevin McDonald if fit could do a job for us.