Thistle v Arbroath

[laukat]

20 minutes ago, Kingleo said:

Pray tell what did the banner have to say? I take it not too complimentary towards our glorious chairperson and her cronies?

I think it said "Sack the Board" on one banner and "PTFC Trust J Low's Patsies"

[Anniesland Jag]

We’ll play better and lose but glad to see we’re slowly  rediscovering the craft of winning games and showing a bit more spirit …big Graham really is the difference , took his goal well but missed a sitter in first half .

[erty13]

54 minutes ago, Anniesland Jag said:

We’ll play better and lose but glad to see we’re slowly  rediscovering the craft of winning games and showing a bit more spirit …big Graham really is the difference , took his goal well but missed a sitter in first half .

Did it not just hit off him and go in.

Did not look like he meant it.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Have been told that Dick Campbell had a bit of a meltdown on the radio - what a shame!

I heard it. Recognised some of the words he used so I'm guessing it was in some sort of English.  May well have been a meltdown. Given most of his spiel sounded nonsensical he could just as easy have been using some form of encryption.

[laukat]

2 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

I have been critical of the manager so credit when its due. Only one win but hopefully it will give the players a bit of confidence going forward.

Have been told that Dick Campbell had a bit of a meltdown on the radio - what a shame!

He was moaning about the second goal. I think he was saying Bannigan fouled the Arbroath player.

However looked to me like the Arbroath player slipped, gave up the ball to Bannigan who then slipped twice but still managed to get back on his feet and play in Tiffoney. Don't remember the Arbroath players arguing about it which to me suggests it wasn't a foul.

Arbroath fans were booing Campbell particularly when he was putting subs on but leaving Bobby Linn on the bench.

Reminded me a lot of why I hated Campbell as Thistle manager. 

[laukat]

1 hour ago, Anniesland Jag said:

We’ll play better and lose but glad to see we’re slowly  rediscovering the craft of winning games and showing a bit more spirit …big Graham really is the difference , took his goal well but missed a sitter in first half .

I think the sitter he missed actually got deflected just slightly behind him by an Arbroath defender. It was a cracking ball from McMillan and in many ways that was as unfortunate as the first goal was fortunate.

[King Kenny]

Fitzpatrick needs the penny to drop soon. His attitude is terrible, continually on his heels and slow to react to what’s happening in the game. 

It says it all when a barely fit Tiffoney produces more in his 25 min cameo.

Not a great game but defence looked a bit more solid as did Sneddon. Brownlie needs to improve on his distribution rather than just punt it the way he’s facing.

Bannigan made a difference in midfield but we could do with Docherty back soon as Hodson isn’t good enough to play there. 

[Anniesland Jag]

11 hours ago, laukat said:

I think the sitter he missed actually got deflected just slightly behind him by an Arbroath defender. It was a cracking ball from McMillan and in many ways that was as unfortunate as the first goal was fortunate.

Your right, looks like a deflection away from Graham on seeing it again .

[Jaggernaut]

13 hours ago, laukat said:

He was moaning about the second goal. I think he was saying Bannigan fouled the Arbroath player.

However looked to me like the Arbroath player slipped, gave up the ball to Bannigan who then slipped twice but still managed to get back on his feet and play in Tiffoney. Don't remember the Arbroath players arguing about it which to me suggests it wasn't a foul.

Arbroath fans were booing Campbell particularly when he was putting subs on but leaving Bobby Linn on the bench.

Reminded me a lot of why I hated Campbell as Thistle manager. 

I was more than worried every time Lin got the ball. Still a great wee player.

[Jaggernaut]

Odd game, football. Arbroath frankly played much nicer football and even looked more dangerous than Thistle throughout, yet the Jags win  3-0.

Special mentions for Turner (his best game yet?) and Milne.

Sneddon didn't put a foot or a hand wrong.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I feel Turner has to contribute from set pieces and score the odd goal to fully justify a start. The main problem being he's a factor in our soft/lightweight midfield. All stemming from our lack of muscle in the middle of the park. Get that sorted and in my mind Turner could become an almost certain starter. We didn't sign the likes of Turner to be a ball winning midfielder. He's forced into having to do that and I think that will be affecting the creativity side of his game.

To add. I'm fairly sure Hodson isn't the defensive mid answer tho'  he may be learning the role and improving. I'm reasonably certain when fit Docherty will replace him and we'll be back to a better, but not by enough, midfield.  

Edited November 20, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Jimbo]

3 hours ago, King Kenny said:

Fitzpatrick needs the penny to drop soon. His attitude is terrible, continually on his heels and slow to react to what’s happening in the game. 

It says it all when a barely fit Tiffoney produces more in his 25 min cameo.

Not a great game but defence looked a bit more solid as did Sneddon. Brownlie needs to improve on his distribution rather than just punt it the way he’s facing.

Bannigan made a difference in midfield but we could do with Docherty back soon as Hodson isn’t good enough to play there. 

Agree with all of this, especially comments on Fitzpatrick who looks to be turning into the  next Kevin Nisbet.  I'm never one for selecting a loan player in front of a contracted player but not when it comes to Weston & Fitzpatrick.

[westertonjagfan]

27 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Agree with all of this, especially comments on Fitzpatrick who looks to be turning into the  next Kevin Nisbet.  I'm never one for selecting a loan player in front of a contracted player but not when it comes to Weston & Fitzpatrick.

Totally agree. Weston, Dowds etc....much more deserving of a starting place

[jlsarmy]

5 hours ago, King Kenny said:

Fitzpatrick needs the penny to drop soon. His attitude is terrible, continually on his heels and slow to react to what’s happening in the game. 

It says it all when a barely fit Tiffoney produces more in his 25 min cameo.

Not a great game but defence looked a bit more solid as did Sneddon. Brownlie needs to improve on his distribution rather than just punt it the way he’s facing.

Bannigan made a difference in midfield but we could do with Docherty back soon as Hodson isn’t good enough to play there. 

Absolutely right about Aiden Fitzpatrick, don’t think anyone can doubt his ability but his fitness levels and his attitude are open to question.

Got his move to Norwich and probably the  same as a lot of young players down there got too much too soon .

Hopefully the penny will drop soon and he won’t waste his career.

 

[jagfox]

18 hours ago, erty13 said:

Did it not just hit off him and go in.

Did not look like he meant it.

He certainly celebrated before it hit the net?

[exiledjag]

12 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I feel Turner has to contribute from set pieces and score the odd goal to fully justify a start. The main problem being he's a factor in our soft/lightweight midfield. All stemming from our lack of muscle in the middle of the park. Get that sorted and in my mind Turner could become an almost certain starter. We didn't sign the likes of Turner to be a ball winning midfielder. He's forced into having to do that and I think that will be affecting the creativity side of his game.

To add. I'm fairly sure Hodson isn't the defensive mid answer tho'  he may be learning the role and improving. I'm reasonably certain when fit Docherty will replace him and we'll be back to a better, but not by enough, midfield.  

Agree with this. Some muscle in midfield could be the making of Turner as a Jag.

[Dick Dastardly]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:41 PM, exiledjag said:

And you know this for a fact?

I don't believe, with the possible exceptions of Dundee and Queens Park, that any team in this league could afford to sign replacements, to have them sitting on the bench, of the same calibre of their 4 or 5 best and most influential players.

The run of injuries and the specific  players injured has just been very bad luck albeit critical to our championship hopes.

No doubt those coming in could have done better but again I don't think you can lose 35-40% of your team and expect it not to have consequences.

With players coming back we should all expect performances and results to improve but we do need Docherty and Holt back to get back into the mix for our play-off and Championship aspirations.

The words I used were "adequate cover for those key players" as you yourself quoted. I didn't say of the same calibre, that would be plain stupid. Not even Man City or Real Madrid can do that, but withe the EXTRA £275k that was reportedly given to him last season to gain promotion (and presumably the target is still the same) we should at least have backup players who can hold the fort while those key players return. Instead we have Akinola, Hodson, McKinnon, Smith, Turner, Fitzpatrick, Weston and Mullen who are quite simply not good enough. Effectively we have been left with a squad of 13 which is no where near enough to cover for the inevitable players being out.

And don't get me started on the injury record since McCall came to town. I know that sportsmen are going to get injuries, that is going to happen when you push your body to the limit, but every season, McCall is moaning about "this is the worst injury crisis I can remember". Why does it keep happening ? What is being done to change it ?

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The words I used were "adequate cover for those key players" as you yourself quoted. I didn't say of the same calibre, that would be plain stupid. Not even Man City or Real Madrid can do that, but withe the EXTRA £275k that was reportedly given to him last season to gain promotion (and presumably the target is still the same) we should at least have backup players who can hold the fort while those key players return. Instead we have Akinola, Hodson, McKinnon, Smith, Turner, Fitzpatrick, Weston and Mullen who are quite simply not good enough. Effectively we have been left with a squad of 13 which is no where near enough to cover for the inevitable players being out.

And don't get me started on the injury record since McCall came to town. I know that sportsmen are going to get injuries, that is going to happen when you push your body to the limit, but every season, McCall is moaning about "this is the worst injury crisis I can remember". Why does it keep happening ? What is being done to change it ?

It is certainly surprising that when the 2nd string players have been asked to step up on a regular basis en masse they have been found wanting. At the start of the season most of us thought we had a much stronger squad than last season. I think of the players you mention that McKinnon probably is good enough (in a stronger midfield unit), which we don’t have without Docherty. But none of the midfield have been good enough without him. Or maybe it has just been coincidence that when we get 3 of 5 of our missing players back we manage a win. I agree totally about season after season about injuries- but I think it pre dates McCall ?

[dl1971]

4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The words I used were "adequate cover for those key players" as you yourself quoted. I didn't say of the same calibre, that would be plain stupid. Not even Man City or Real Madrid can do that, but withe the EXTRA £275k that was reportedly given to him last season to gain promotion (and presumably the target is still the same) we should at least have backup players who can hold the fort while those key players return. Instead we have Akinola, Hodson, McKinnon, Smith, Turner, Fitzpatrick, Weston and Mullen who are quite simply not good enough. Effectively we have been left with a squad of 13 which is no where near enough to cover for the inevitable players being out.

And don't get me started on the injury record since McCall came to town. I know that sportsmen are going to get injuries, that is going to happen when you push your body to the limit, but every season, McCall is moaning about "this is the worst injury crisis I can remember". Why does it keep happening ? What is being done to change it ?

Interestingly enough Inverness have an injury crisis too and equally their results are on the downward swing. Are we unluckier that most other teams I don't know, but I agree ultimately that's where we need to get the max out the squad. Next window is vital to get more quality in and jettison ( if we can ) the obvious failures.

[exiledjag]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:39 AM, Dick Dastardly said:

The words I used were "adequate cover for those key players" as you yourself quoted. I didn't say of the same calibre, that would be plain stupid. Not even Man City or Real Madrid can do that, but withe the EXTRA £275k that was reportedly given to him last season to gain promotion (and presumably the target is still the same) we should at least have backup players who can hold the fort while those key players return. Instead we have Akinola, Hodson, McKinnon, Smith, Turner, Fitzpatrick, Weston and Mullen who are quite simply not good enough. Effectively we have been left with a squad of 13 which is no where near enough to cover for the inevitable players being out.

And don't get me started on the injury record since McCall came to town. I know that sportsmen are going to get injuries, that is going to happen when you push your body to the limit, but every season, McCall is moaning about "this is the worst injury crisis I can remember". Why does it keep happening ? What is being done to change it ?

OK point(s) taken.

Regarding our injury problems and from memory this isn't a recent problem. We have had similar injury problems at times when Archibald was manager.  Ironically the only 'injury crisis' free period I can recall was when Caldwell was manager and a fat lot of use it did for us with him at the helm.

As far as IMC is concerned I still think he is doing a good job  and using ICT as a comparator the only reason we have fallen behind in the title race is due to injuries to key players all occurring over a couple of games (Tiffoney being  the exception).

In terms of the standard and contribution of  our cover players  I agree with you about Fitzpatrick and Smith. Although a supporter of IMC he does leave me frustrated with his treatment of Turner. I believe we have a VG player here  who deserves a run in the team. 

I would play him with Docherty as our main midfield partnership hopefully bolstered in January by some midfield muscle.

Finally it seems an aporopriate moment to admit I was wrong about the re-signing of Lawless. Over the piece he has proved to be a very good signing and I hope he continues to be.

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

10 minutes ago, exiledjag said:

OK point(s) taken.

Regarding our injury problems and from memory this isn't a recent problem. We have had similar injury problems at times when Archibald was manager.  Ironically the only 'injury crisis' free period I can recall was when Caldwell was manager and a fat lot of use it did for us with him at the helm.

As far as IMC is concerned I still think he is doing a good job  and using ICT as a comparator the only reason we have fallen behind in the title race is due to injuries to key players all occurring over a couple of games (Tiffoney being  the exception).

In terms of the standard and contribution of  our cover players  I agree with you about Fitzpatrick and Smith. Although a supporter of IMC he does leave me frustrated with his treatment of Turner. I believe we have a VG player here  who deserves a run in the team. 

I would play him with Docherty as our main midfield partnership hopefully bolstered in January by some midfield muscle.

Finally it seems an aporopriate moment to admit I was wrong about the re-signing of Lawless. Over the piece he has proved to be a very good signing and I hope he continues to be.

 

McCall is doing a good job? Oh dear!

[laukat]

I like McCall as he tends to recruit well and tends to find younger players that act as a basis of teams to come. However, I have little sympathy with him regarding the current injury crisis.

When the window shut you could see we were short of a central defensive midfielder.

Whilst on paper we have 4 central defenders only Holt was fully fit at the start of the season. Of the other three, Brownlie was only just coming back after a long time out Akinola had question marks on his ability and Muirhead was only ever meant to be cover.

When you add that Muirhead was also our only cover for Docherty it's no surprise that it doesn't take a lot of injuries to give us a big problem.

Fitzpatrick has been a disappointment so far, but Smith was a disappointment all last season and proven not to be what we need. McCall should have moved him on and replaced him in the squad with a defensive midfielder.

Weston and Mullen haven't done anything wrong but the decision to bring both in and not bring in another central defender looks like a poor allocation of budget. 

On the positive side for McCall out of the entire squad there are really only 3 (Fitzpatrick, Smith & Akinola) maybe 4 (Mitchell) who haven't met the minimum requirement. Thats not a bad success rate. 

You would hope that in January we can get in at least 1 centre half and 1 defensive midfielder. I would prefer two of each with Akinola, Smith and Weston making way.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Lot of what Laukat says is hard to disagree with and highlights McCall's failings as a coach. I've said often enough he's creative enough with his player budget in terms of bringing players in. You don't often hear much criticism of his man management. You just get the impression if a quality (at our level) player is available and he likes him, McCall will sign him. He'll only then worry about where to play the guy. Allied to that is we witness players constantly being played out of position. I'd rather see a tactically aware head coach telling McCall the type of players we need. McCall can then go and sign them or bring them in on loan and get the contracts etc sorted.  Maybe since he's got the contacts McCall could even head up a scouting set up, which appears at the moment basically non existent. A Head Coach to do the coaching and all match time activity of a playing nature. A Football Manager in charge of all the non coaching and non match time  business. An Assistant Manager, ideally with additional responsibility for youth development.