January window

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Real shame about Akinola.  Started so well and thought he would be great for us.

[jagfox]

Reading between the lines doesn't seem like we will see many, if any, new signings coming into the club.

Maybe a squad filler if we move Akinola and can't agree a deal with Hodson. 

Money talks...

[Dick Dastardly]

Don't see much point in making any changes unless they bring in net revenue. We are unlikely to even make the playoffs, as we have played more games than all those above us, and it would take a total capitulation to get relegated. Start planning for next season in the Championship.

[Garscube Road End 2]

8 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Don't see much point in making any changes unless they bring in net revenue. We are unlikely to even make the playoffs, as we have played more games than all those above us, and it would take a total capitulation to get relegated. Start planning for next season in the Championship.

With a new manager in place.

[Auld Jag]

1 hour ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

With a new manager in place.

Serious question. Who do you think we could get/ who would you like as manager within reason ?

[Dick Dastardly]

You have no idea who would apply or who we could afford, but for me NONE of the usual suspects

I'd give Brian Graham a chance for the rest of this season as an interim with a chance to prove himself. Well clear of any relegation threat and remote chance of a playoff, so nothing to lose.

[Fawlty Towers]

5 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

You have no idea who would apply or who we could afford, but for me NONE of the usual suspects

I'd give Brian Graham a chance for the rest of this season as an interim with a chance to prove himself. Well clear of any relegation threat and remote chance of a playoff, so nothing to lose.

Graham was in the paper today saying he wants to play on for a few more seasons so I don't see that as a realistic option (unless he has a change of heart). He could continue playing if he was in more of a coaching/assistant role but that would require, in my opinion, an experienced manager and the trend along with what seems to be the mood of the fans is for new, younger managers.

[Auld Jag]

27 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

You have no idea who would apply or who we could afford, but for me NONE of the usual suspects

I'd give Brian Graham a chance for the rest of this season as an interim with a chance to prove himself. Well clear of any relegation threat and remote chance of a playoff, so nothing to lose.

I think Graham will look to be manager of a men's team at some point. My only problem with him as player manager/coach, i am not sure if he would be so effective on the park with the added responsibility.

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I think Graham will look to be manager of a men's team at some point. My only problem with him as player manager/coach, i am not sure if he would be so effective on the park with the added responsibility.

 

2 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Graham was in the paper today saying he wants to play on for a few more seasons so I don't see that as a realistic option (unless he has a change of heart). He could continue playing if he was in more of a coaching/assistant role but that would require, in my opinion, an experienced manager and the trend along with what seems to be the mood of the fans is for new, younger managers.

That is why I suggested interim to the end of the season. A chance to see how it works out for both parties and lower cost than recruiting a new permanent manager.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

14 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

 

That is why I suggested interim to the end of the season. A chance to see how it works out for both parties and lower cost than recruiting a new permanent manager.

Graham looks a likely future manager. Of course he already is re the women's team. Like a lot of business we should have contingency plans in place. Probably don't due to the interim nature of the Board. That's a reason I don't sense McCall's job is in imminent danger.

Anyway there's still much merit in what your saying. Thing is tho' if/when things go a bit wrong as sure as hell us fans will be accusing the Club of a "jobs for the boys"  mentality. Personally I tend to disagree with that viewpoint. You only have to look at the progress we made under McNamara and Archie from promoting from within. A couple of drawbacks. One being a tendency to give "one of our own" that bit longer in the job. Archie being a prime example and it's likely to be repeating itself just now with McCall. The other drawback is the difficulty in transition of going from being teammate to boss. That was clearly the case with Gerry Britton. Judging by his occasional narky attitude with his fellow players on the pitch I doubt Graham would be troubled with that transition.

As said often enough I'd be happy for McCall to stay and for us to appoint a head coach. Graham should definitely be in the running.

Edited January 3, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett

[exiledjag]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:55 PM, Auld Jag said:

I think Graham will look to be manager of a men's team at some point. My only problem with him as player manager/coach, i am not sure if he would be so effective on the park with the added responsibility.

I would go with Graham being appointed as head coach. I think he has done well with the ladies team and deserves the opportunity.

I would also restructure the management set up by,  as I have frequently advocated,  appointing IMC Director of Football and releasing Archibald. Not sure what to do with Scally.

I know that Graham wants to play for a couple more seasons but given he can barely play a full game (frequently substituted around the 60 minute mark) I think his resolve on this point could be tested by offering him a full time position as Head Coach.

There we have a young manager supported by an experienced manager. As a Director of Football IMC would work closely with Graham on recruitment and oversee the Club's Football operations including the Academy and the Ladies Team. 

The flaw in all of the above is that IMC will I think resign if we were to release Srcgibald and or Scally.

[Garscube Road End 2]

7 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I would go with Graham being appointed as head coach. I think he has done well with the ladies team and deserves the opportunity.

I would also restructure the management set up by,  as I have frequently advocated,  appointing IMC Director of Football and releasing Archibald. Not sure what to do with Scally.

I know that Graham wants to play for a couple more seasons but given he can barely play a full game (frequently substituted around the 60 minute mark) I think his resolve on this point could be tested by offering him a full time position as Head Coach.

There we have a young manager supported by an experienced manager. As a Director of Football IMC would work closely with Graham on recruitment and oversee the Club's Football operations including the Academy and the Ladies Team. 

The flaw in all of the above is that IMC will I think resign if we were to release Srcgibald and or Scally.

There is no need for a Director of Football at Partick Thistle FC. Another tier of useless management.  We cannot afford it. As for Archibald and Scally, they can go anytime.

[McCall Out]

10 hours ago, exiledjag said:

I would go with Graham being appointed as head coach. I think he has done well with the ladies team and deserves the opportunity.

I would also restructure the management set up by,  as I have frequently advocated,  appointing IMC Director of Football and releasing Archibald. Not sure what to do with Scally.

I know that Graham wants to play for a couple more seasons but given he can barely play a full game (frequently substituted around the 60 minute mark) I think his resolve on this point could be tested by offering him a full time position as Head Coach.

There we have a young manager supported by an experienced manager. As a Director of Football IMC would work closely with Graham on recruitment and oversee the Club's Football operations including the Academy and the Ladies Team. 

The flaw in all of the above is that IMC will I think resign if we were to release Srcgibald and or Scally.

Good plan. Release one of them (whichever is cheapest) and the other 2 resign, saving us ££££.

I like your thinking !

[exiledjag]

2 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

There is no need for a Director of Football at Partick Thistle FC. Another tier of useless management.  We cannot afford it. As for Archibald and Scally, they can go anytime.

I disagree with you re needing a DoF!

IMC working with Brian Graham would in my opinion be a good partnership.

Graham 's focus would be the performance and development of the first team.

McCall would be in charge of the overall football operation including recruitment. I think McCall is suited to this role given his experience of managing clubs and his ability to spot a player. In relation to recruitment I see it working as Graham telling McCall what he wants and the latter finding the type of player wanted.

So in short McCall following discussion with Graham finds the players. Graham then gets the best out of them. Ideal!!

Most if not all  of the abve would be funded by Archibald and Scally leaving.. 

[jagfox]

Partick Thistle:

 

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

1 hour ago, exiledjag said:

I disagree with you re needing a DoF!

IMC working with Brian Graham would in my opinion be a good partnership.

Graham 's focus would be the performance and development of the first team.

McCall would be in charge of the overall football operation including recruitment. I think McCall is suited to this role given his experience of managing clubs and his ability to spot a player. In relation to recruitment I see it working as Graham telling McCall what he wants and the latter finding the type of player wanted.

So in short McCall following discussion with Graham finds the players. Graham then gets the best out of them. Ideal!!

Most if not all  of the abve would be funded by Archibald and Scally leaving.. 

A club our size has CEO to do what a Director of Football does at clubs with bigger budgets. We have no need of one at all. And regards McCall he needs to be put out to pasture. As Dick Dastardly says, why reward failure. 

[jaggymct]

I know for a fact that the current management are not interested in using any form of data analysis in player recruitment and think this holds us back recruitment wise. We need to look at trying to use data to locate players in lower/non league down south/ireland and try and bring them in and move them on. Akinyemi at Ayr is a good example of the kind of players that are available in these leagues.

 

[fenski]

Given the regular accusation that we have too many 1st team management/coaching staff, I checked out how we compare with other teams in the Championship. Unsurprisingly, we are pretty much on a par with other teams, if anything a bit light in terms of sport science and performance analysis. On this second point - I wonder if teams taking a more data-driven approach to management are or will be gaining a competitive advantage? Statistical analysis is a specialist area and would only be of any use if those the analysis is being done for, i.e. managers/coaches, understand and use stats effectively to make decisions.

[laukat]

1 hour ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

A club our size has CEO to do what a Director of Football does at clubs with bigger budgets. We have no need of one at all. And regards McCall he needs to be put out to pasture. As Dick Dastardly says, why reward failure. 

Just now I think the division of labour is McCall identifys and recruits players, Gerry negotiates contracts, Archibald and Scally coach and train the team with McCall getting final call on first team selection and tactics

When Archibald was in charge it looked like our recruitment was done via word of mouth and agents recommendations when we were in the premier league. Struggle to think of too many players that Archie would have identified, and we were still heavily reliant on players McCall and McNamara. 

When we got relegated from the premiership it looked like the club had tried to address Archie's recruitment issues by having Gerry in charge of recruitment and Archie more focussed on coaching.  

So don't see Gerry Britton being the guy to take forward player recruitment. So if we're going to add that to the CEO's remit we probably need a different CEO. 

I think McCall is good at identifying recruitment targets within Scottish football. He generally doesn't recruit outside of Scottish Football which suggests he either doesn't have the scouting network or contacts outwith the Scottish game. Perhaps that could be improved if he didn't have to worry about first team affairs and was able to appoint a scouting team so it could make sense to have him as a Head of recruitment.

One of the issues with McCall's recruitment is not that he doesn't have an eye for a player but that he tends to recruit good players that he potentially doesn't need (Mullen, Smith aren't bad players we just didn't have a need for them) and not recruit in areas that we needed (this season CDM, Central defence, last season CDM and wide players) so perhaps having a head coach identifying needs separate from recruitment might help us.

Where the CEO needs to be focused is ensuring the Head of Recruitment/DoF is working to the needs of the head coach and vice versa. So he can evaluate who is or isn't doing their job and make the changes in personel more rapidly. Not sure Gerry is the guy for that either.

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, fenski said:

Given the regular accusation that we have too many 1st team management/coaching staff, I checked out how we compare with other teams in the Championship. Unsurprisingly, we are pretty much on a par with other teams, if anything a bit light in terms of sport science and performance analysis. On this second point - I wonder if teams taking a more data-driven approach to management are or will be gaining a competitive advantage? Statistical analysis is a specialist area and would only be of any use if those the analysis is being done for, i.e. managers/coaches, understand and use stats effectively to make decisions.

Thinking back Jackie Mac’s time, didn’t we have sports scientists on board then -not sure if they were still in place for the promotion season.

[ChiThistle]

5 hours ago, jaggymct said:

I know for a fact that the current management are not interested in using any form of data analysis in player recruitment and think this holds us back recruitment wise. We need to look at trying to use data to locate players in lower/non league down south/ireland and try and bring them in and move them on. Akinyemi at Ayr is a good example of the kind of players that are available in these leagues.

 

And if we are going to continue watching bigger clubs siphon off our most promising younger academy players, it makes this even more of a priority.

One might argue we actually could make more transfer money by finding a gem like Akinyemi and giving him a 1-2 year shop window than by selling our best 17-year-old and hoping for sell-on fees.

[Auld Jag]

16 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

And if we are going to continue watching bigger clubs siphon off our most promising younger academy players, it makes this even more of a priority.

One might argue we actually could make more transfer money by finding a gem like Akinyemi and giving him a 1-2 year shop window than by selling our best 17-year-old and hoping for sell-on fees.

This seems to be the way things are going. The bigger clubs are taking smaller clubs younger/youth players. The 'old firm' have lost some of their younger players to EPL clubs.  I can't remember the player or clubs involved but i do recall a price of circa £60m being talked about for an 18 year old player recently. I am old enough to remember Trevor Francis being the first £1m transfer in Britain. How times have changed and not always for the better.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

3 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Thinking back Jackie Mac’s time, didn’t we have sports scientists on board then -not sure if they were still in place for the promotion season.

I remember during McNamara's tenure a meet the management thingy. There was some sort of sports science/fitness promotion from an outside agency, endorsed by Kris Doolan amongst others. Think that was at the start of the promotion season. That perhaps would also coincide with when the players were using Jackie Mac's gym.

Edited January 5, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Third Lanark]

6 hours ago, jaggymct said:

I know for a fact that the current management are not interested in using any form of data analysis in player recruitment and think this holds us back recruitment wise. We need to look at trying to use data to locate players in lower/non league down south/ireland and try and bring them in and move them on. Akinyemi at Ayr is a good example of the kind of players that are available in these leagues.

 

Archie regularly went to the English leagues to look at players- most were pretty awful or a waste of money because they were constantly injured such as Seabourbe and Dumbaya.

 The few successes such as Abdul Osman had spent time playing in Scottish leagues.  The only exception to an excellent player from the English leagues was Kakay who was outstanding in terms of both attitude and ability and mmm hadn’t played in Scotland and he wasn’t signed by Archie

Unfortunately we couldn’t keep ahold of Kakay.  I hate to think how much money we squandered on Archie’s signings from down south

[Third Lanark]

5 hours ago, laukat said:

Just now I think the division of labour is McCall identifys and recruits players, Gerry negotiates contracts, Archibald and Scally coach and train the team with McCall getting final call on first team selection and tactics

When Archibald was in charge it looked like our recruitment was done via word of mouth and agents recommendations when we were in the premier league. Struggle to think of too many players that Archie would have identified, and we were still heavily reliant on players McCall and McNamara. 

When we got relegated from the premiership it looked like the club had tried to address Archie's recruitment issues by having Gerry in charge of recruitment and Archie more focussed on coaching.  

So don't see Gerry Britton being the guy to take forward player recruitment. So if we're going to add that to the CEO's remit we probably need a different CEO. 

I think McCall is good at identifying recruitment targets within Scottish football. He generally doesn't recruit outside of Scottish Football which suggests he either doesn't have the scouting network or contacts outwith the Scottish game. Perhaps that could be improved if he didn't have to worry about first team affairs and was able to appoint a scouting team so it could make sense to have him as a Head of recruitment.

One of the issues with McCall's recruitment is not that he doesn't have an eye for a player but that he tends to recruit good players that he potentially doesn't need (Mullen, Smith aren't bad players we just didn't have a need for them) and not recruit in areas that we needed (this season CDM, Central defence, last season CDM and wide players) so perhaps having a head coach identifying needs separate from recruitment might help us.

Where the CEO needs to be focused is ensuring the Head of Recruitment/DoF is working to the needs of the head coach and vice versa. So he can evaluate who is or isn't doing their job and make the changes in personel more rapidly. Not sure Gerry is the guy for that either.

Smith has been an awful signing.  Mullen at least comes off the bench and can score.  I think it’s unfair to compare the 2

Its ridiculous that Smith is still here picking up a wage

Edited January 5, 2023 by Third Lanark