Jump to content

McCall Sacked


elevenone
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Colognejag said:

Club quick to remove the sacked three from the first team squad on the website. Management listed as Kenny Arthur and Paul McDonald. No mention of Kris Doolan… 

Doolan was only Interim Manager. He was sacked at 4am. Aiden Fitzpatrick has been appointed Temporary Player Manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, G13 jag said:


I’d like to hear from TJF, whom I pay monthly subscriptions to.  I’m aware they be were not involved in any decision making, which I think is wrong.  

Info from TJF.  They have no power over the club. Yet.

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/tjf-statement-on-management-situation/

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/message-from-the-tjf-chair/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

I didn’t make myself clear,  I’m more interested in the future of the club rather than weekend events.  
yes, we have a new board, yes, tjf have nominated a board member.  But this is still only 25% representation.  And the same ceo.  
this does not feel like fan ownership.  And I’m not asking for fan run, but I do not think there is much difference between the current set up and the one we thought we’d ousted.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, G13 jag said:

I didn’t make myself clear,  I’m more interested in the future of the club rather than weekend events.  
yes, we have a new board, yes, tjf have nominated a board member.  But this is still only 25% representation.  And the same ceo.  
this does not feel like fan ownership.  And I’m not asking for fan run, but I do not think there is much difference between the current set up and the one we thought we’d ousted.  

100% correct, these lackies were hand picked by Jaquie Lowe and for all we know could be controlling them behind the scenes.

Nobody is putting their name to these statements, to all the fans these people are totally faceless .

Worrying

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, The Thistle Archive said:

Stats can be malleable little blighters, but this table gives a solid no-nonsense comparison of Thistle and their 2nd / 3rd tier managers. Ian McCall's results are below our historical average for the level, and it's been going backwards this season...

Mccall.png

Thanks,guaranteed nightmare tonight with some of those names on that list.:help:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, elevenone said:

It’s probably no surprise we are having to re-budget. The last couple of sets of PTFC accounts only looked ‘okay’ because of additional funds from 3BC. 

TJF were right to have sought due diligence before the share transfer. What we seem to be finding out now, should have been made clearer by the previous Club Board.

Still, we are where we are. Time to sort out the mess and get an effective model of fan ownership in place.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, sandy said:

It’s probably no surprise we are having to re-budget. The last couple of sets of PTFC accounts only looked ‘okay’ because of additional funds from 3BC. 

TJF were right to have sought due diligence before the share transfer. What we seem to be finding out now, should have been made clearer by the previous Club Board.

Still, we are where we are. Time to sort out the mess and get an effective model of fan ownership in place.  

Im far from certain we got additional funds from 3BC.  Saying we were going to get additional funds and actually given us them are 2 entirely different things.  Nothing would surprise me mate about this whole shambles sadly

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of probable assistance to those trying to make sense of this... from the TJF statement.image.png.3461235bc88a6a5fcd980fc2d88b2c39.png

I will go further. The accuracy of the Directors' Statement in the Annual Accounts (which claims, in effect, that a conscious decision was made to overspend to increase the player budget) must be doubted, given the answers given on this point at the AGM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Of probable assistance to those trying to make sense of this... from the TJF statement.image.png.3461235bc88a6a5fcd980fc2d88b2c39.png

I will go further. The accuracy of the Directors' Statement in the Annual Accounts (which claims, in effect, that a conscious decision was made to overspend to increase the player budget) must be doubted, given the answers given on this point at the AGM.

So does that mean Jlow told McCall he had the budget to recruit players from money that she didn't actually have and now we can't afford to keep them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I appreciate that people are having to choose their language very carefully over this, but I do wish some of the statements (Club and TJF) were a lot plainer. We’re having to read between the lines and interpret legal or parliamentary language instead of being given facts and views in simple terms.

I'm not at all suggesting “say something different”, just asking “can’t you lay it out a bit clearer?” I love a bit of detail the same as the next geek, but saying it in a way my twelve year old could understand it is a lot more inclusive and gets more folk on board, both within our support and beyond it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Of probable assistance to those trying to make sense of this... from the TJF statement.image.png.3461235bc88a6a5fcd980fc2d88b2c39.png

I will go further. The accuracy of the Directors' Statement in the Annual Accounts (which claims, in effect, that a conscious decision was made to overspend to increase the player budget) must be doubted, given the answers given on this point at the AGM.

Greame 

You raise some interesting points - the most recent Club Statement said thus 

The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective.

Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect.

You have questioned the accuracy of the Directors Statement in the Annual Accounts ( Fair enough ) - however the above statement released by the Club makes specific claims  regards the budget given to the Management Team - and that there was agreed objectives - however what is confusing is that our Current Board are making reference to Budgets and Agreements of the previous Board - how do they know what was agreed ? How do they know the assertions made in the statement are accurate ?  - if Im reading the Club Statement accurately - the Current Board are using the previous Boards objectives and the Management Team - have been dismissed for failing to meet them - how do we know the "management team were given a budget to support this objective"   - TJF statement has gone to great lengths regards the requirement for Due Diligence ( which has now been effectively carried out) 

Was there Due Diligence regards the previous Boards "belief " that we could get promoted ? 

Sitting looking at the Teams in the League - QP are now funded by Willie Haughey one of Scotlands most astute Businessmen -They are managed by Owen Coyle - who managed in the English Premier with couple of decent Seasons - and there CEO is Lianne Dempster - one of the most respected Football CEOs in Scotland 

Now applying logic - the odds were stacked against us going up against QP from the outset - so a realistic objective was a Play Off Spot - ( which we are currently a point away from with a third of the Season to go ) 

But based on the previous Boards Target of regaining premiership status ( despite a very strong QP ) and the assertion that a Budget was made available to do this at the start of the Season  ( despite the fact TJF had to provide funds for a Players Contract extension in January ) - the management team were fired 

So the Question is - exactly whose targets - objectives and budgets were the management team working to ? The Current Boards - or as the Club Statement suggest - The Previous Boards - and how do we know ( as stated by the Club ) the target of Promotion and the Budget set at the start of the Season were realistic in the face of combined strength of QP Owner - Manager & CEO         

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Doolan was only Interim Manager. He was sacked at 4am. Aiden Fitzpatrick has been appointed Temporary Player Manager.

I am getting ry confused here.

Are we saying that Doolan, appointed interim manager on Sundsy evening  to be assisted by Paul McDonald has been sacked on Tuesday Motning at 4.00am and is no longer with the club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

I appreciate that people are having to choose their language very carefully over this, but I do wish some of the statements (Club and TJF) were a lot plainer. We’re having to read between the lines and interpret legal or parliamentary language instead of being given facts and views in simple terms.

I'm not at all suggesting “say something different”, just asking “can’t you lay it out a bit clearer?” I love a bit of detail the same as the next geek, but saying it in a way my twelve year old could understand it is a lot more inclusive and gets more folk on board, both within our support and beyond it.

Sorry to self-quote, but you can use free things like ChatGPT to simplify language automatically. Here's a first pass at the last TJF statement  - obviously it would need tweaked but I think this is a lot clearer:

----------------------

"Recently, there has been a lot of talk online about the money situation at the club. Now, the Interim Football Club Board has made an announcement, and we believe it is important to be clear about what's going on.

Someone recently asked the TJF Chair a good question about money from TJF that can help the club in other ways. This is similar to what people have been discussing online and in the stands recently, so we wanted to explain what we know. We are not speaking for the Club Board about anything that comes after this.

To help you understand our situation, we have to look at three things that we've always talked about as a fan-owned club.

First, there was talk of the club being given to the fans while it was being run on a "sustainable breakeven basis." This means that the club should not be losing money, but should be making enough to pay for everything it needs. Representatives from Three Black Cats talked about this repeatedly when we were negotiating. If the club is balanced financially, then any extra money that fans give can be used to make the club better instead of paying off debt. Fans can also decide how to use that money.

Some people are saying that the sources of money for the club have stopped since the Trust got the shares or since the board changed. However, we have no proof that any real sources of money have stopped since these changes. In fact, the TJF has provided more money to help the club. Also, at the last AGM (annual general meeting), it was discovered that a lot of promised money hadn't actually been given to the club. This was a big reason why the club lost money last season.

We know that the new board has been spending a lot of time on financial issues. If the shares were given to the Trust without making sure that the club was financially stable and breaking even, it would be disappointing because the importance of this was mentioned many times during the process of negotiations with Three Black Cats representatives.

Secondly, there was the need for due diligence.

Both the previous and current boards of TJF repeatedly said that it was important to have proper checks before gifting shares, even though no money was being paid. The Three Black Cats board didn't agree, which was confusing for TJF. If proper checks had been done, fans would have felt better about the club's finances and there would have been less speculation.

We thought it was important to do due diligence before fan ownership to make sure fans knew what they were getting into and to confirm the club was being run sustainably. This would have prevented people from unfairly blaming the previous owners or Board. It would have protected everyone involved.

The Football Club Board has been working hard recently to look into things, which is like doing the due diligence process but after the share transfer instead of before it. We have been supportive of their efforts and have given them time to do their assessment and make any necessary changes. We know this can take time and we have been kept informed of progress. However, if the due diligence process had been done earlier, it would have saved a lot of trouble and given fans a better idea of what was happening.

Lastly, there's the need for a margin of safety.

The football club's audited accounts for the year ending May 31, 2022 had some inconsistencies compared to the information that was previously shared. TJF made a commentary on the accounts and sent it to all members. You can find it on our website, and sections 3 to 5 are the most important parts to read.

Some people said things that weren't true about the club's finances. The money that the club has in the bank and the money they expect to receive soon have both been reduced a lot, and the amount of money they owe is close to the amount of money they have. This is a problem for the future. At the AGM meeting where shareholders and representatives spoke for other people who own a part of the club, many people asked questions about this, but they didn't feel like the answers were good enough.

The previous board lost money in recent years, and the new board inherited the challenging financial situation. This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who read the accounts or attended the AGM. The new board is now working on a plan to improve the situation, and we support them.

Conclusion

The Club is facing some financial problems, but this is not because the fans own the Club. Some people are wrongly connecting fan ownership to the Club's financial challenges. The Foundation is in discussions with the Club about providing financial support in the future, and this is why fans are encouraged to join and support the Foundation. This support will be important and will provide a regular revenue stream for the Club.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally appreciate that the above leaves some parts of the story unclear. But I'd argue they're also unclear in the statement, particularly to readers who may not be able to read between the lines, so that's kinda my point.

(Absolutely not trying to bash TJF who are doing extremely hard work in trying circumstances, which I really value.

But I'd hope it's worth highlighting quick and easy opportunities for improvement.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Totally appreciate that the above leaves some parts of the story unclear. But I'd argue they're also unclear in the statement, particularly to readers who may not be able to read between the lines, so that's kinda my point.

(Absolutely not trying to bash TJF who are doing extremely hard work in trying circumstances, which I really value.

But I'd hope it's worth highlighting quick and easy opportunities for improvement.)

Hi thanks for the feedback

I think you are right to acknowledge that there is some very specific wording we either had to, or wished to use.  I think we also wish to come across in as professional a way as we can whilst we continue to build the case for fan ownership by being credible. To do so, we adopt that professional language. 

But it is also important to educate/inform as many people as possible with these updates, so your point on clarity is noted.

Of course, we also have some members who actually appreciate the language used (from private feedback received), so we have a challenge keeping everyone happy - but we will do our best!

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jaf
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...