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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I assume then that the TV money is diluted in a similar fashion. What I'm trying to get at is have we in net terms lost £150K from not finishing second? Put another way will the size of the crowd at Firhill on Tuesday be largely immaterial regarding our finances?

 

We won’t get £150k out of the 2 games against QP. That will put us in the same place as Ayr who have the money in the bank.

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9 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Obviously, hence why I used the word "net". So is Tuesday night's game completely without financial benefit?

The previous board had budgeted for us finishing 2nd so would not have factored in any income from this game. But the new board then realigned the budget so they might have.

Over the season our attendances are up by nearly 600 although we sold fewer season tickets. We got 2 games after the group stage of the League Cup which was an improvement on last season and got TV money for the Scottish Cup game against Rangers as well as our share of the gate money. But we also had to spend money on the Main Stand roof and the pitch plus once the old board did a runner I assume no more money came from TBC.

So a fairly complex picture which is why, and I apologise for being so boring, I keep saying in the hope someone at the club hears - talk to us, the fans, about these things please!

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3 hours ago, eljaggo said:

 He undoubtedly has a good eye for players, but I think the way he was sacked might prove an obstacle.  McCall will obviously be looking for something more permanent and lucrative, but maybe as a stopgap, your suggestion might be of benefit to both parties.

Ian McCall had 3 years to build something and didn’t , if we did manage to get to the Premier League by the play off system, I think we’ve only got 4 or 5 players who could play at that level ( Tiff , Holt , Milne , Turner and maybe Lawless )

So in fact Ian McCall’s perceived contacts , Sevco etc have been a waste of time for our Club and offered us nothing for progression 

We should have been scouting players that we could develop , giving some of our young players a pathway to first team football.

The quick fix template hasn’t worked, I would much rather we built a team that was ready for the step up to the Premier League .

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I suspect the problem with Tuesday's game is not that we don't get an income but that the previous board budgeted on getting the extra £150k from finishing second and the income from playing at least 2 playoff games. Perhaps they were even daft enough to budget on getting to the playoff final as most teams that finish second make the final.

With the income from the Scottish cup tie against Sevco minus the extra cost of binning the previous management team I would assume the only now of squaring the budget is to at least make the playoff final?

Assuming we don't get promoted but do make the playoff final it still doesn't massively help for next season's budget and I can't imagine the current board allowing Doolan the budget McCall had.

This season I suspect we had the 3rd biggest budget with only Dundee and Queens spending more and able to outbid us for players. With probably the 3rd biggest budget we finished 4th.

If next season the other 9 teams in the league were Ross County, Dundee United, Queens Park, Dunfermline, Falkirk, ICT, Morton, Raith and Arbroath we could well have only the 5th or 6th largest budget.

Raith have just got new investment as the the guys that ran Kelty have just joined them. Its possible they may also have a competitive budget. Next season in the championship looks way more difficult than this season.

When you add we have an ageing squad with lots of the better ones going out of contract we would do well to make it to the top 4 next season.

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31 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Obviously, hence why I used the word "net". So is Tuesday night's game completely without financial benefit?

There is no prize money from any of the playoff games, but obviously there is gate receipts, tv revenue, hospitality and catering, so not completely without financial benefit.

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Such a crazy league that even in last seconds last night a goal either team could have been difference between 2nd and 5th.  The championship is gonna be a nightmare next season to the point I actually think the bottom few in Spfl would be easier to navigate if that makes sense.

As a forever optimist does anybody know when Ayr play off dates are?.

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As for last night. I feel criticism better directed at the season rather than last night. In truth we should've had at least one penalty (hand ball) and Raith were extremely fortunate to not concede on a number of occasions. For a team with little to play for Raith were incredibly up for the game (5 players booked and a fair amount of gamesmanship thrown in). Raith fans should be pleased to see that level of professionalism especially with a depleted squad.

Still we could easily have come away with three points but that would not remove most of the criticism. Heard Horrible Hartley talking about his leaderless overage Cove squad. Could just as easy be talking about us. Just as an example of the leaderless bit was the protracted celebrations after our 2nd goal. To be fair Graham put a stop to it but in effect and in hindsight the players were celebrating coming fourth rather than second.

A lack of composure rather than lack of effort was evident last night but that can easily be said for much of the season.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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12 minutes ago, elevenone said:

Such a crazy league that even in last seconds last night a goal either team could have been difference between 2nd and 5th.  The championship is gonna be a nightmare next season to the point I actually think the bottom few in Spfl would be easier to navigate if that makes sense.

As a forever optimist does anybody know when Ayr play off dates are?.

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/play-off-place-confirmed/

Ticket details for Queens Park match also here:

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-fixture/partick-thistle-v-queens-park-9th-may-2023/

Edited by Fawlty Towers
QP ticket details added
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A few points.

1. I think most members of the WAT know that I am an IMC supporter but Doolan is now the manager and that's it as far as I am concerned. It would not be a good or comfortable situation brining IMC back. There must be other people out there who have a good eye for a player so let's get one of them if this is the way the club chooses to go.

2. Will there be a Partick Thistle FC next season or will we have gone the way of Third Lanark?

3. I acknowledge I have not been to many games this season due to my inability to sit in a bus or car for 3 hours. However I keep reading the same thing from those who have been attending games  I.e. "we should have been out of sight" but we rarely are. I think if we still exist next season we need a prolific goalscorer or at least a player that we can coach into being one. We should scout the lower leagues and try to find a player with an eye for goaL (not Goodwillie)

4. Doolan has to address the quite distinct differences in form not just between games but also between first and second half in the same game. In other words make us more consistent.

And finally,

5. We need to break up the Docherty and Bannigan midfield partnership. Get Turner playing more centrally (Doolan seems to be doing this), also find a couple of more physically strong midfield ball winners, one of them with a little creativity would be good as well. I am happy to find a place for Docherty but next season we need a midfield that can dominate and control games.

Two wins from our last two perfectly winnable  games and  the 61 points we would have achieved would have won us  second place ! 

What a missed opportunity , frustrating!

 

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4 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Obviously, hence why I used the word "net". So is Tuesday night's game completely without financial benefit?

It will obviously produce some income from the attendance although the SFA take their slice.  But obviously hospitality etc as well will produce some income- so yes we will make some money at least

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4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

There is no prize money from any of the playoff games, but obviously there is gate receipts, tv revenue, hospitality and catering, so not completely without financial benefit.

The tv money doesn’t go to us though.  It gets split among the 42 clubs I’m afraid.  It’s only cup games where the individual clubs each get money 

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4 hours ago, exiledjag said:

5. We need to break up the Docherty and Bannigan midfield partnership. Get Turner playing more centrally (Doolan seems to be doing this), also find a couple of more physically strong midfield ball winners, one of them with a little creativity would be good as well. I am happy to find a place for Docherty but next season we need a midfield that can dominate and control games.

Apologies for the selective quotation.

In my opinion, Doolan making Bannigan and Docherty the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 has been the basis of the improvement in the team. It has also had the benefit of playing Turner as the advanced man in the 3 which - to me - is his natural position.

Bannigan looks like a player transformed at the moment - his influence from midfield has been pivotal since Doolan took over.

Never understood the lack of appreciation for Docherty. He does a mound of dirty work that isn't appreciated by many. He may not be the most gifted, but he is the best reader of a game we've had in a decade. His covering skills when off the ball are excellent. He'll be missed big style next season if the rumours of him moving on are true.

Edited by Barney Rubble
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In analysing our season, we seem to be focusing on missed opportunities, as turning any loss into a draw or a draw into a win would have put us into second place.

However, we could just as easily look at it the other way round. Without Jamie Sneddon's equaliser at Cove we would not even be in the play offs.

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Most of the post-Raith updates are in place on the Archive, still managing to include a video for all 49 games so far, home page news →

 

:detective:  A COSTLY DRAW

Jack McMillan completes the 2022-23 League season as an ever-present for Partick Thistle, with 36 appearances. He's the first to do so since James Penrice and Blair Spittal, both of whom registered the feat in 2018-19.
● Goalkeeper David Mitchell hits a new personal best of 10 consecutive competitive appearances for Thistle.
Darren Brownlie scores his first League goal for Partick Thistle.
● Bizarrely, Thistle have only conceded 3 penalties in the League all season, with Raith Rovers being the beneficiaries on 3 separate occasions!
● It's 6 direct goal involvements in his last 5 games for the on-form Scott Tiffoney.
● For the fifth consecutive game, all Partick Thistle appearances are attributed to Scottish-born players. It's the longest stretch since a run of 6-in-a-row from 11th January 2011 to 12th February 2011.
● Thistle go 8 competitive away games without a win at Stark's Park (2011 to date), the worst run since the H2H record (12) was set in 1927.
● The lack of a winning goal cost the club £150,000 in prize money, this being the difference between finishing second (£475,000) and fourth (£325,000).
● It's been a season of missed opportunities for Thistle as Dundee become the worst second tier champions in Scottish football history. The points-per-game ratio (1.75) of the Dens Park club falls below Ayr United's ratio of 1912-13 (1.808) when 3 pts per win are applied across all eras.
● For the first time since 1935. Queen's Park finish above Partick Thistle in the League. The two sides will now meet in the play-offs on Tuesday night at Firhill.
Kris Doolan finishes as the top Championship manager in terms of points earned per game. His total (1.85 ppg) is ahead of 2nd placed Gary Bowyer of Dundee (1.75 ppg). Doolan's predecessor, Ian McCall (1.43 ppg), was well off the pace this season in 7th. Paul Hartley (0.59 ppg) was an outstanding disaster, marooned at the bottom.
 
ongoing sequences:
● 5 competitive home games without defeat; 4th Mar 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games; 26th Nov 2022 to 21st Jan 2023. Club-record: 24 games; 5th May 2001 to 17th Aug 2002.)
● 6 competitive games without defeat, 1st Apr 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games, 18th Feb 2023 to 18th Mar 2023. Joint club-record: 16 games, 15th Nov 1975 to 21st Feb 1976 & 30th Sep 2000 to 13th Jan 2001.)

● 46 consecutive competitive appearances for Jack McMillan, 9th Jul 2022 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: James Penrice - 51 games, 7th Sep 2019 to 10th Apr 2021. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)

 

doolan.png

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39 minutes ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said:

Damage was done by the home games against Hamilton & Cove.

So many missed opportunities but at least we are in the playoffs.

Can’t believe the board budgeted for finishing second - absolutely crazy ‘business’ acumen there.

Onwards, a big week needed.

We were arguably 1 goal away from doing that, so it was achievable (Again arguably 3 goals from winning the league by turning 3 draws into wins).

Small margins 

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Regarding next season, I hope Sneddon can get a move elsewhere. A young keeper is always going to make the odd mistake, but the way he has been treated by both McCall and Doolan has been poor. Despite some clean sheets, Mitchell looks utterly unconvincing. Would much rather have a young lad between the posts who quite clearly has real potential as opposed to a mid-tier League One keeper.

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44 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Regarding next season, I hope Sneddon can get a move elsewhere. A young keeper is always going to make the odd mistake, but the way he has been treated by both McCall and Doolan has been poor. Despite some clean sheets, Mitchell looks utterly unconvincing. Would much rather have a young lad between the posts who quite clearly has real potential as opposed to a mid-tier League One keeper.

Kinda agree and disagree at the same time

My problem with Sneddon is his distribution. Mitchell is far from great at recycling the ball but still better. No point in setting up a team to play out from the back when the goalie is content to play hoofball. When he does decide to recycle the ball Jamie does so at too slow a pace. Also Mitchell manages a pass back on his weaker foot easier than Jamie. Always a heart stopping moment if he's forced into using his right foot.

We could bite the bullet re these failings if Sneddon was a truly good shot stopper. I think he's better than Mitchell but maybe not by enough. Cerny is maybe a good example of a very good shot stopper whose,  annoying as it was, poor distribution was worth overlooking. 

What Sneddon's got that Mitchell won't have is the time to improve. Ideally I'd like see that improvement from Jamie as a Jags player. That may however be unlikely.

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3 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said:

Most of the post-Raith updates are in place on the Archive, still managing to include a video for all 49 games so far, home page news →

 

:detective:  A COSTLY DRAW

Jack McMillan completes the 2022-23 League season as an ever-present for Partick Thistle, with 36 appearances. He's the first to do so since James Penrice and Blair Spittal, both of whom registered the feat in 2018-19.
● Goalkeeper David Mitchell hits a new personal best of 10 consecutive competitive appearances for Thistle.
Darren Brownlie scores his first League goal for Partick Thistle.
● Bizarrely, Thistle have only conceded 3 penalties in the League all season, with Raith Rovers being the beneficiaries on 3 separate occasions!
● It's 6 direct goal involvements in his last 5 games for the on-form Scott Tiffoney.
● For the fifth consecutive game, all Partick Thistle appearances are attributed to Scottish-born players. It's the longest stretch since a run of 6-in-a-row from 11th January 2011 to 12th February 2011.
● Thistle go 8 competitive away games without a win at Stark's Park (2011 to date), the worst run since the H2H record (12) was set in 1927.
● The lack of a winning goal cost the club £150,000 in prize money, this being the difference between finishing second (£475,000) and fourth (£325,000).
● It's been a season of missed opportunities for Thistle as Dundee become the worst second tier champions in Scottish football history. The points-per-game ratio (1.75) of the Dens Park club falls below Ayr United's ratio of 1912-13 (1.808) when 3 pts per win are applied across all eras.
● For the first time since 1935. Queen's Park finish above Partick Thistle in the League. The two sides will now meet in the play-offs on Tuesday night at Firhill.
Kris Doolan finishes as the top Championship manager in terms of points earned per game. His total (1.85 ppg) is ahead of 2nd placed Gary Bowyer of Dundee (1.75 ppg). Doolan's predecessor, Ian McCall (1.43 ppg), was well off the pace this season in 7th. Paul Hartley (0.59 ppg) was an outstanding disaster, marooned at the bottom.
 
ongoing sequences:
● 5 competitive home games without defeat; 4th Mar 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games; 26th Nov 2022 to 21st Jan 2023. Club-record: 24 games; 5th May 2001 to 17th Aug 2002.)
● 6 competitive games without defeat, 1st Apr 2023 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games, 18th Feb 2023 to 18th Mar 2023. Joint club-record: 16 games, 15th Nov 1975 to 21st Feb 1976 & 30th Sep 2000 to 13th Jan 2001.)

● 46 consecutive competitive appearances for Jack McMillan, 9th Jul 2022 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: James Penrice - 51 games, 7th Sep 2019 to 10th Apr 2021. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)

 

doolan.png

So Jack McMillan needs 6 more games to beat James Penrice, would be good if he managed it this season.

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3 hours ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Regarding next season, I hope Sneddon can get a move elsewhere. A young keeper is always going to make the odd mistake, but the way he has been treated by both McCall and Doolan has been poor. Despite some clean sheets, Mitchell looks utterly unconvincing. Would much rather have a young lad between the posts who quite clearly has real potential as opposed to a mid-tier League One keeper.

Sneddon was injured when Doolan took charge and then we lost 1 goal in 7 or 8 games. In the games I have seen in the last couple of months, Mitchell has been pretty solid. I would say Sneddon has been unlucky rather than been treated unfairly by Doolan.

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13 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Sneddon was injured when Doolan took charge and then we lost 1 goal in 7 or 8 games. In the games I have seen in the last couple of months, Mitchell has been pretty solid. I would say Sneddon has been unlucky rather than been treated unfairly by Doolan.

Tend to agree with that. From memory, we have gone Mitchell/Sneddon (League Cup), Mitchell, Sneddon, Mitchell, Sneddon, Mitchell. The policy seems to be that a goalkeeper in reasonable form keeps his place until either injury or a significantly poor performance. Apart from McCall's initial call for Mitchell in the first league game, I think that almost all the other changes have been injury related, the only exception being Mitchell's bad game at home to  Dundee which let Sneddon back in.  

I agree that Sneddon wins out on reflexes and goal-scoring, but Mitchell is far better at rapid recycling of possession.

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