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Home and away part 4, the final countdown


Auld Jag
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2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Actually I disagree. Yes we would have struggled in the Premiership next season, but for me a promotion was not about next season, more about setting us up for the 24/25 season. If we did get relegated, with a years top flight revenue and parachute payments we would be in a much better place to mount a serious Championship campaign in 24/25. Instead we find ourselves in a position where the side is about to be decimated. We have no midfield or defence signed up and no money to recruit new ones. Next season is going to be a struggle with at least 5 teams (Dundee U, Queens Park, Inverness, Dunfermline and Raith) who will all have significantly better financial backing. This is a missed opportunity that could set us back 5 years or more.

Agreed - we could use the money for sure.

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1 hour ago, laukat said:

We have got some @rsheholes in our support. If anyone wants to know why the match commander deemed the county end as the only safe option for penalties then have a chat with the absolute idiot who ran onto the pitch at halftime too drunk to stand and making out we were home and hosed. The number of people around me too drunk to stand up before kick off was embarrassing. Add that one of two of our  (adult) supporters thought it funny to pretend to hand over the ball to a county player, then throw it behind them and then hurl abuse at the County player.

Not the first incident in the playoffs were we have had fans run on the pitch during a game so if the Police based their decision on that we only have ourselves to blame. You could probably add that we gave the county manager his halftime teamtalk so an all round great piece of work by those involved.

Match was lost in our reaction to the penalty. Yes, Bannigan was stripped to come on before the penalty is given but we should have sat him back down and played another few minutes with the starting 11 who had defended well until that point. You don't make subs after moments like that and to my mind that was a bit of inexperience/panic from Doolan.

We only used 2 subs yesterday for 120 minutes on pretty warm day. You would have thought fresh legs against a County team that was running out of bodies would have made a difference. The fact we made so few subs Suggest to me that Doolan didn't have faith in any of the other subs which. 

Bannigan has to have a look at himself as well. He was way off the pace when he came on and bringing him on forced us to change a system that was holding County. How on earth he managed to put the ball almost out the ground from 8 yards out with no pressure on him I do not know. He was clearly never scoring his penalty so why we put him up so early when we still had guys like Mullen and Tiffoney still to take one I don't understand. How the guy is a club 'legend' is beyond me and as much as next season will be a struggle I'm not sure I can take another season  of watching him round around a lot, playing safe passes and offering nothing.

Didn't think the ref was great. Thought he didn't give us a penalty because he thought with us being ahead the tie was over and he didn't want to be the one ensuring that. He got sent to VAR 4 times yesterday and only disagreed with the referral once and that once was our penalty claim. All other 3 were to give a decision in County's favour. Also thought he was too lenient on County fouls in the first half. 

A team that can't defend a 3 goal lead with 20 minutes to go doesn't deserve promotion. No one else to blame for that other than ourselves. Starting eleven did well but I think that was our problem because only are starting 11 are able to compete at that level.

Spot on.

I was also surprised at the lack of subs given how hot it was yesterday. I'm 100% behind Doolan but imo it's important he reflects on his use of substitutes in the 2 games he lost. On neither occasion did they improve the team's performance. Ironically in his first game he got it right - went to 5 at the back for last 15 minutes or so. Given Simon Murray's introduction effectively gave County 3 central strikers, there's a strong argument he should have done so again. Pragmatism does have its benefits. 

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1 hour ago, laukat said:

We have got some @rsheholes in our support. If anyone wants to know why the match commander deemed the county end as the only safe option for penalties then have a chat with the absolute idiot who ran onto the pitch at halftime too drunk to stand and making out we were home and hosed. The number of people around me too drunk to stand up before kick off was embarrassing. Add that one of two of our  (adult) supporters thought it funny to pretend to hand over the ball to a county player, then throw it behind them and then hurl abuse at the County player.

Not the first incident in the playoffs were we have had fans run on the pitch during a game so if the Police based their decision on that we only have ourselves to blame. You could probably add that we gave the county manager his halftime teamtalk so an all round great piece of work by those involved.

Match was lost in our reaction to the penalty. Yes, Bannigan was stripped to come on before the penalty is given but we should have sat him back down and played another few minutes with the starting 11 who had defended well until that point. You don't make subs after moments like that and to my mind that was a bit of inexperience/panic from Doolan.

We only used 2 subs yesterday for 120 minutes on pretty warm day. You would have thought fresh legs against a County team that was running out of bodies would have made a difference. The fact we made so few subs Suggest to me that Doolan didn't have faith in any of the other subs which. 

Bannigan has to have a look at himself as well. He was way off the pace when he came on and bringing him on forced us to change a system that was holding County. How on earth he managed to put the ball almost out the ground from 8 yards out with no pressure on him I do not know. He was clearly never scoring his penalty so why we put him up so early when we still had guys like Mullen and Tiffoney still to take one I don't understand. How the guy is a club 'legend' is beyond me and as much as next season will be a struggle I'm not sure I can take another season  of watching him round around a lot, playing safe passes and offering nothing.

Didn't think the ref was great. Thought he didn't give us a penalty because he thought with us being ahead the tie was over and he didn't want to be the one ensuring that. He got sent to VAR 4 times yesterday and only disagreed with the referral once and that once was our penalty claim. All other 3 were to give a decision in County's favour. Also thought he was too lenient on County fouls in the first half. 

A team that can't defend a 3 goal lead with 20 minutes to go doesn't deserve promotion. No one else to blame for that other than ourselves. Starting eleven did well but I think that was our problem because only are starting 11 are able to compete at that level.

Run out of likes, but agree entirely.  Doubt if Bannigan will be here next season. - The Club stood by him for a very lengthy spell when he was injured, but he adds nothing and hopefully with Milne back, the left side can be re-jigged, and Bannigan can use his talents elsewhere.

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Really tough one to take, I've experienced my fair share of heartbreak as a Thistle fan like we all have but that was quite possibly the worst of the lot.

I had my concerns after the first 20 mins or so, we just couldn't get a handle on the game and were conceding possession so cheaply. That being said we were defending quite well but there was no way we could have kept that up for 90 mins. To get in at HT 1-0 was the stuff of dreams, we'd played poorly and had extended our lead.

This is where i'd be a bit critical of the manager, we should have made the change to shore up at that point. We'd been getting bombarded, were losing the midfield battle and were not really in the game in an attacking sense so something needed to be done. The lack of options on the bench was probably what made Doolan hesitant here but there must have been something that could have been done.

We were quite lucky they didn't get the first goal earlier. The chance right before HT and then the Brownlie slip at the start of the second half were huge let offs, these were the warning signs.

The penalty was really unfortunate, I just cant get my head around what is a handball and what's not these days. It seems to make no sense.

Our reaction to that penalty was absolutely farcical though and that was the moment that the game really flipped, I felt that sucked the life out of us and that it was only a matter of time until they got the third.

We can blame the referee or VAR but what happened in those last 20 mins and beyond was all down to us and how we managed the game. We had enough chances in the first game to put them away and being 3-0 up with 20 mins to go should have allowed us to play them on the break. We just never seemed to be able to get a foothold.

We maybe weren't ready as a squad to go up but when the chance presents itself you just have to take it, you may not get another one for a while. I doubt we'll be in as good a position again anytime soon and that's probably the most gutting thing. 

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I guess that’s as close as any team will get to being promoted and relegated in the space of one game as you will ever likely to see.VAR aside to lose a three goal advantage in the last 20 minutes is not acceptable and some real hard headed analysis and solutions  needed.

For me a wholesale rebuild of central defence and midfield is needed and pivotal to any meaningful attempt on an evermore competitive Championship this coming season .With our coffers apparently bare really not sure if this is even possible,however,I have trust in Doolan to get the best out of any player under his cool headed leadership.

Interesting and worrying times ahead for sure .

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Not doubting for one moment from a policing point of view having the shoot out at the home end was correct. I do tho' think from the footballing side of things that decision is highly questionable. Open to many a "what if it was" scenario. But then again the SPFL/SFA are quite content to have TV companies dictate how football is run, so why not let the Police have a go as well? Just a pity Doncaster & Maxwell don't pay the same respect to public transport time tables.

To add............... Posting this with no intention to convey a "we wuz robbed" attitude. I'm certainly not over yesterday yet. That'll take quite a while but not bitter about losing out. 

 

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I'm not particularly bitter about yesterday nor am I particularly annoyed that county were the ones that one. I had a nagging doubt in my head as soon as I saw that fan run on the pitch that we had fallen into the trap of being over confident. Thistle never ever convert positions were we are the favourite and less so when we are feeling bullish.

Its not even the worst I've felt after a defeat. The loss to Livingston and Dundee United were worse because we were the Premier league team and you knew it would be many years before we were back. Even the loss to Ayr that got us relegated at the end of the save the jags season was worse because you knew we were going into a league and a standard that we shouldn't be at.

To my mind yesterday was a chance to do something that no one else has done whilst avoiding the consequences of allowing Jlow to run our club. It was like buying a lottery ticket, we got most of the numbers up just not enough to win life changing money.

So now we are back to reality. Attention needs to turn straight to the new season which starts in about 8 weeks and a league cup campaign that starts in 6 weeks. If somehow we get through the league cup group stage and get a tie against an arse cheek then we might just well be ok financially.

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2 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Feeling bullish enough to sing "you're going down with United" was absolutely moronic. 

Yip. Couldn't understand that at the time. Don't get the constant desire to rub other fans noses in it and it always back fires.

We're there to support our team and if we want a chant at the opposition can we at least make it funny or pick the more obvious targets. Yesterday the opposition were being managed by a racist which if we had something catchy might have got a few County fans on board and put a spotlight on why that guys still in a job

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Overall, we've been pretty damned impressive under Doolan, and the playoffs in particular have been spectacular, with people talking about Thistle's fantastic moves and goals scored, as well as the number of shut-outs the defence managed. So it's just a pity that on this one night it fell apart. Too many missed chances, and the defence asleep at the worst possible time. Top that with the curse of VAR and an inconsistent referee, and yet we came within a missed penalty of getting promoted. 

I'm hoping that many of the "occasional" supporters or even new ones that came along for the ride towards the very end of the season will come back regularly next season, giving more of what has been phenomenal support. As usual, I'll probably not see a single match in the flesh, but as soon as the season tickets for the next campaign are on sale, I'll be getting one. Doolan, and also the players, deserve support for next season.

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16 hours ago, stuart_adam said:

Ultimately not good enough, said the minute we took off Fitzpatrick for Bannigan we were being too negative. We then lost a second within a minute and from that point you've brought on a defensive midfielder to defend a one goal lead having withdrawn an attacker. 

 

Going to be a hard slog next season but lets see where it takes us.

 

In Dools we trust

Fitzpatrick had an injury.

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12 minutes ago, stillresigned said:

Fitzpatrick had an injury.

Whether he had an injury or not doesn't matter, it was a negative change. Could have brought on a number of players including Mullen at that point but he chose to go defensive which backfired in under a minute.

I am not singling out Bannigan, I was actually just more pointing out at Firhill during the Queen's Park 4-3 game we made the exact same mistake. Brought on Hodson - went defensive lost a quickfire goal and then the shape went. 

It was working when playing more offensively in both games, and ultimately we got punished for it in both games. Personally I just felt going more defensive wasn't one of our strengths.

That being said; we created more than enough chances to win the game in extra time once we settled down again.

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11 minutes ago, stuart_adam said:

Whether he had an injury or not doesn't matter, it was a negative change. Could have brought on a number of players including Mullen at that point but he chose to go defensive which backfired in under a minute.

I am not singling out Bannigan, I was actually just more pointing out at Firhill during the Queen's Park 4-3 game we made the exact same mistake. Brought on Hodson - went defensive lost a quickfire goal and then the shape went. 

It was working when playing more offensively in both games, and ultimately we got punished for it in both games. Personally I just felt going more defensive wasn't one of our strengths.

That being said; we created more than enough chances to win the game in extra time once we settled down again.

However, I thought this very same change was positive in the first leg. County seemed to have gained some midfield control in the second half (after the first few minutes when we missed numerous chances), Bannigan coming on seemed to steady us and we again looked in control once he came on (with more openings spurned).

As for the QP game you mention, the third QP goal largely came about because Fitzpatrick couldn't be bothered tracking back (the second was a bit of a freak and shouldn't have stood anyway). Hodson, of course, provided an excellent assist for the winner.

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42 minutes ago, stillresigned said:

Fitzpatrick had an injury.

Could have put on MacKenzie, Mullen or Dowds and kept the same shape.

Docherty and Turner were having really good games up until Bannigan appeared. Then they seemed a wee bit unsure who should be doing what after the substitution.

Turner has shown in the last few weeks that he's developed and learnt how to defend and he's much better at retaining the ball and playing forward passes. A few weeks ago I would have said Tiffoney, Milne or McMillan were our prized assets however Turner has developed at such a rate that I think he will be the one with the most offers.

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35 minutes ago, sandy said:

Still feeling gutted after yesterday. My mood would improve if we were able to hang onto Turner and Sneddon. 

I think Turner will be away. I would miss him. He is a very cultured player. Have heard Sneddon might be off to Morton. Whatever happens, if the financial position is as we are led to believe, we will do well to get mid table.

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57 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Whatever happens, if the financial position is as we are led to believe, we will do well to get mid table.

As I've said previously not going up will probably mean looking at survival as an achievement. Folk my age won't be exactly phased by yet another "period of transition". I just trust our newer, younger vocal fans will not be deterred. The Doolan>McCall>Caldwell growth in support has been phenomenal. This increase in support is the very thing that'll get us thru our perceived financial woes that bit quicker. I just hope that younger fans will understand why what little cash we may have may have to be diverted from a player budget to an upkeep of the stadium budget.

To be clear I am not a "one in the know" person. However I strongly believe that depreciation of the stadium has been overlooked in terms of making our financial position look rosier than it really is. Now even if we were a club akin to risk all for promotion (second place we hear the truer gamble) we're clearly not surely gonna double the stakes next season having failed this one.

I guess we'll have to bite the bullet and accept where we are re finances. We're going to be fan owned so with that comes fan responsibilities. We've no Haughey, Flynn, Mileson, Melville, Nelms, Masterson etc to attempt to buy us the League, and thank God for that. So it's up to us fans to do what we can whether it's buying STs, Club merchandise, streams, joining TJF or simply turning up at Firhill. Accept reality and next season could well be most enjoyable.

 

 

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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Like most still coming to terms with what transpired yesterday. A huge opportunity missed. I see a few are predicting we won't be challenging next season. I'd like to think that doolan will build his own team in the style we have just witnessed. A big challenge of course. Clearly Dundee United should be strong....but their current team hardly world beaters. I suspect Inverness will be up there, but will we really be below morton; ayr and dunfermline? Who knows, but as many have said if the fans are as galvanised as of late, we can absolutely be challenging. 

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As others have said a real missed chance. I know VAR seemed to go against us, how our penalty claim is not a penalty i will never know. But we did manage to go 1-0 up yesterday and be 3 ahead in the tie that should have been that. Even after they score with their penalty we are still 2 ahead overall, Why panic ? We have enough experienced players in the team to know that from the kick off after they score to keep possession and not give them the ball back right away. Even from the throw in that lead up to their second goal our defence looks caught out.

The managerial team and the players got a lot of deserved plaudits for how they have played, particularly in the playoffs, but imo everybody has to question their part in how our season ended so badly in the last 20 minutes or so in the final 90 before extra time.

I also feel that next season could be a struggle because of what we hear on the 'grapevine', but now that the season is over and we know what league we are in i think it would be good to hear from the board and also where they see us going as a team over the next couple of seasons.

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6 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

I think Turner will be away. I would miss him. He is a very cultured player. Have heard Sneddon might be off to Morton. Whatever happens, if the financial position is as we are led to believe, we will do well to get mid table.

Heard Turner is going to Dungdee 

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Still utterly gutted in cold night of following day.  So close and in mood only to focus on potential future positives as others have covered failings on day with tactics and var etc.

Dools has been a revelation since taking over especially as not his squad he inherited so could be exciting times with a transfer window and pre season under his belt.  Football has been exciting to watch under him and hopefully we can kick on and mount another tilt next season in what will be a much stronger championship.

Move towards fan ownership looks a lot more healthy than under certain previous chairpersons and on the terraces as others have said the support has been fantastic and great to see so many of them young and passionate about club.

My next point will be pie in the sky as will not happen with the self preservation club of top flight (look how skewed it is to get there via a play off system that allows 5 victories from 6 but still fall short on pens) but I really think a top 14 or 16 would be far healthier for game but obv the ugly sisters and sky would not be for diluting their matches vs each other although am certain Roy Macgregor would have floated the idea had we not blown it yesterday.  

Lastly hope everyone involved in incident on EK bus are ok, does put football into perspective.  

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