Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: So we dont reinvent History - we were 1 point from 4th with 30 Points to play for At the end we finished 4th and on the last game of the Season - we could have actually finished 6th if results had gone against us We had a great run in the Play Offs - the Squad clicked in the Playoffs it would be churlish simply to ignore the fact that McCall assembled a Good Squad We have No idea what was going on in the background at the time - and the fact that we now find out that we were £600K in debt at the end of last Year is revealing - the fact that Februarys Wages would not be paid without the Cup Game is revealing So I dont think we should be judging anyone on the Football Side under these circumstances The fact we sacked McCall but no one has resigned or been sacked over the Financial Mess is again "revealing" as to the culture at the Club I accept Football is brutal and Managers get sacked But why has no one else been sacked for putting the Clubs existence at risk - where is the Board ? You cant sack McCall and have different rules for others I have, on here, commented that McCall assembled a good squad. But he was failing with it. 1 point off 4th, yes, but on the back of 2 home defeats in a row against the 2 bottom( ultimately relegated) sides. A 95th goalkeeper header seemingly saved his job. We were going in the wrong direction with the squad he assembled. Regards the board, there have been numerous comments on this site making it clear the utter contempt we had for the bunch of charlatans they were. And our Chief Executive should follow them out the door. No one on here has offered different rules for the directors. Unfortunately the mess of governance in football lends itself to incompetent ego driven, corrupt directors who calmly walk away when the actions they committed put the club(s) existence in peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 18 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: More positive news. Fans are stepping up to help get the club back in the black https://twitter.com/Jags_Foundation/status/1666563562116972545?t=A7fDmAC4-XJKnGxFPibn1w&s=19 Fantastic news. I have personally increased my monthly contributions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 38 minutes ago, Alb said: So, without going into the wrongs or rights, and remembering there are two sides to every story. The recent news and releases could also be perceived as the old board knew about the projected loss, but had funds in place to cover most/all of it....but when they were ousted, strangely that money was not forthcoming which has left the big hole that's currently there. Alternative version of that is that board who had history of talking a lot of nonsense also told fans another load of nonsense about extra investment. Which one to believe..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: More positive news. Fans are stepping up to help get the club back in the black https://twitter.com/Jags_Foundation/status/1666563562116972545?t=A7fDmAC4-XJKnGxFPibn1w&s=19 Indeed good news. Imo TJF largely thru its openness and honest communication is the best (if not only) realistic way forward in terms of targeted fundraising. What's done is done. Whether McCall overspent, didn't overspend etc etc is in the past. We've all had our say but creating pages here arguing the rights and wrongs isn't going to affect the future. On the other hand discussion on ways we can affect the future (short, medium & long term) is far from academic. Edited June 8, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 41 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Indeed good news. Imo TJF largely thru its openness and honest communication is the best (if not only) realistic way forward in terms of targeted fundraising. What's done is done. Whether McCall overspent, didn't overspend etc etc is in the past. We've all had our say but creating pages here arguing the rights and wrongs isn't going to affect the future. On the other hand discussion on ways we can affect the future (short, medium & long term) is far from academic. You are right to an extent, little value dissecting previous Board actions. What’s done is done, I just hope none of them have the cheek to turn up at Firhill again. It’s where we go from here that matters and TJF is the best chance we have of representation and raising funds. A priority also is replacing the Interim Board with people who are there by design rather than by accident. And I think we need a new Board Chair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Indeed good news. Imo TJF largely thru its openness and honest communication is the best (if not only) realistic way forward in terms of targeted fundraising. What's done is done. Whether McCall overspent, didn't overspend etc etc is in the past. We've all had our say but creating pages here arguing the rights and wrongs isn't going to affect the future. On the other hand discussion on ways we can affect the future (short, medium & long term) is far from academic. Disagree with the bit in bold. TJF will help going forward but we need analysis on what has happened to prevent re-occurrence and set realistic expectations. When we had the "Save the Jags" season it was fairly obvious the money had been spent on building a stand we didn't need at the same time as the Steedmans takeover falling through had left us in a dire financial state. Whilst we are possibly not at "Save the Jags" level we don't really seem to know where the money has gone this time. We have a TJF statement that implies the board didn't know how to budget but no-one seems to have been held account for that or identified what we overspent on that we are now going to cutback. Yes we will cutting players terms but in the same way that it can't have lead to the problem on its own, I don't see that it can fix it on its own. So what else is going to get cutback to square the budget? If I recall and understand correctly, Colin Weir had money left in the black cats accounts that could be used to support the club. He died in 2019 and we've ran through that money in less than 4 years. Caldwell would have been manager for at least part of that time period. So if it is over using the budget on playing staff its not just about McCall which then means its about the financial controls at the club during that time period. (Why is our Chief exec still here when he is the only constant over this period?) Is there possibly a case to look at Jlow's and the old board actions and determine if they did anything illegal? Not saying this is what happened or its illegal but if Jlow's masterplan was to access the money in the Black Cat's account but she couldn't do that directly, did she transfer it to Thistle and then pay her companies for her PR advice? I would really like someone to look at what's happened over the last few years so we don't repeat it. To me its too easy to say '"Football club overspent chasing promotion". That may be part of the overspend but I doubt its the biggest problem. We must be the only club in existence that won the lottery and ended up nearly bust because if it. We need to understand why. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, laukat said: Disagree with the bit in bold. TJF will help going forward but we need analysis on what has happened to prevent re-occurrence and set realistic expectations. When we had the "Save the Jags" season it was fairly obvious the money had been spent on building a stand we didn't need at the same time as the Steedmans takeover falling through had left us in a dire financial state. Whilst we are possibly not at "Save the Jags" level we don't really seem to know where the money has gone this time. We have a TJF statement that implies the board didn't know how to budget but no-one seems to have been held account for that or identified what we overspent on that we are now going to cutback. Yes we will cutting players terms but in the same way that it can't have lead to the problem on its own, I don't see that it can fix it on its own. So what else is going to get cutback to square the budget? If I recall and understand correctly, Colin Weir had money left in the black cats accounts that could be used to support the club. He died in 2019 and we've ran through that money in less than 4 years. Caldwell would have been manager for at least part of that time period. So if it is over using the budget on playing staff its not just about McCall which then means its about the financial controls at the club during that time period. (Why is our Chief exec still here when he is the only constant over this period?) Is there possibly a case to look at Jlow's and the old board actions and determine if they did anything illegal? Not saying this is what happened or its illegal but if Jlow's masterplan was to access the money in the Black Cat's account but she couldn't do that directly, did she transfer it to Thistle and then pay her companies for her PR advice? I would really like someone to look at what's happened over the last few years so we don't repeat it. To me its too easy to say '"Football club overspent chasing promotion". That may be part of the overspend but I doubt its the biggest problem. We must be the only club in existence that won the lottery and ended up nearly bust because if it. We need to understand why. I’m far from convinced that all the money Colin Weir left was actually spent on the club. Regardless of whether he wanted it spent on the club after he passed away nothing would surprise me now including if the money hadn’t been spent at PTFC Edited June 8, 2023 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 With this revelation about over-spending it would be interesting to look back at various threads throughout the previous regimes (Board and Management) to see if this over-spending was reflected in the general perception by those who post on this Forum. As far as I recollect there has been a general disquiet on this media regarding expenditure on players with the feeling - especially during transfer windows - that not enough expenditure was being directed towards securing playing talent. Of course there will have been considerable other necessary expenditure during this time but it seems that there has been considerable "smoke and mirror" techniques employed as regards where these outgoings have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, sandy said: You are right to an extent, little value dissecting previous Board actions. What’s done is done, I just hope none of them have the cheek to turn up at Firhill again. It’s where we go from here that matters and TJF is the best chance we have of representation and raising funds. A priority also is replacing the Interim Board with people who are there by design rather than by accident. And I think we need a new Board Chair. Spot on Sandy - agree 100%? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Big question. Is Partick Thistle FC a financially viable business moving forward ? It seems that we have overspent our budget by around £600,000, but that was only able to assemble a squad good enough to finish 4th in the league for 2 seasons running. It has left a hole in the finances which needs to be filled by increased sustainable revenue and by cutting costs. The only realistic way to cut cost significantly is to reduce the wage bill, which is likely to be detrimental to team performance, resulting in a lower league position and a reduction in revenue for future seasons. It is also likely to see a decline in the support pulled in from the recent run to the playoffs, further reducing the future revenues. Spending on things like ground maintenance, energy, stadium security etc are pretty much fixed and would offer only very small savings at best. On investment and revenue, we can't rely on landing a money spinning cup tie every year. I also worry about the sustainability of any supporter donations longer term and even then how much of the hole can they plug ? It is probably optimistic, but lets say we can reduce the wage bill by £200k per year (across players and staff) it still leaves around £400k to find. I don't know how many will be willing and able to increase what they already give, but I think there are around 1,500 in TJF, and 3,000 season ticket holders. So lets be optimistic and estimate that a total of 4,000 people are willing and able to give more. That would need them to give £100 every year to support a team almost sure to be on a downwards trajectory in performance. It is asking a lot. I know that this is not the only avenue that is being explored, but finding new sponsors or revenue streams is not going to be that easy, especially if the team is not competitive. Is it time to think about moving away from Firhill ? A purpose built smaller ground would certainly cost less to maintain, but is the current land going to generate enough to build a new stadium and how much of the fanbase would be disenfranchised by such a move ? This feels different from STJ. That was a one-off to keep the club from going under. What we have now is a STJ every year for the foreseeable future. I have upped my monthly donation to TJF and I hope that this will buy us some time to find a sustainable model, but I do have grave concerns regarding the long term future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Season ticket prices now on official site. Seems to be an increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Fantastic news. I have personally increased my monthly contributions. From £0 to £1. Only joking - good stuff sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Forgot to mention Holt possibly returning to Cyprus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 42 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: From £0 to £1. Only joking - good stuff sir! Actually. From £10 to £30. I know I am a moaning Auld git. But I do love Thistle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Actually. From £10 to £30. I know I am a moaning Auld git. But I do love Thistle. The question is do you support Thistle because you are a moaning old git or are you are a moaning old git because you support Thistle? It is at times like these we realise that we have our differences on here from time to time but we agree on the right club to support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erty13 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 What is missing for me is the proposed budget going forward for next season as this will inform us of the actual shortfall. Last season we lost money but we had high costs in most areas. A manager and two assistants, not many clubs at our level could afford this. We also have a chief exec and a chief operating officer, we are a small business, not many small businesses have both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: The question is do you support Thistle because you are a moaning old git or are you are a moaning old git because you support Thistle? It is at times like these we realise that we have our differences on here from time to time but we agree on the right club to support. Probably a bit of both. Hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Those leaving the club, probably aren't a surprise. As for in talks. I think we will probably lose Sneddon, Holt, Docherty,Turner. Interesting that we don't have a single CB signed up. Edited June 8, 2023 by Garscube Road End 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Not surprised with any of those of those leaving. I had wondered if our financial situation would have forced us to look at Brownlie for another year on reduced terms. Can't imagine he gets too many offers from championship clubs so could have been a low cost experienced backup. Don't begrudge Tiffoney his shot at the premier league, he was great to watch so wish him all the best. Mullen did a job for us when selected but just too expensive to have sitting on the bench. Cammy Smith just never got going for us. Can't see us re-signing Sneddon and McCready. Hopefully one or the other but both seems unnecessary. Apart from that I suspect of the rest that we are in talks with only Muirhead and Bannigan will be back. I also wonder if Dowds will be allowed to leave if he can find another club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 I would not be surprised if we got offers for Milne, McMillan and Fitzpatrick from bigger (or richer) clubs. If we do, I doubt we can afford to reject them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 In an ideal world we need to retain McMillan, Fitzy, Turner & Milne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said: I would not be surprised if we got offers for Milne, McMillan and Fitzpatrick from bigger (or richer) clubs. If we do, I doubt we can afford to reject them. Yes. That is probably the situation. If Milne comes back to playing as he was before injury, he will be off. McMillan would do well at bottom half of Premiership. Fitzpatrick, not sure, he still seems to be learning a lot about his all round game under Doolan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, sandy said: In an ideal world we need to retain McMillan, Fitzy, Turner & Milne Don't see us hanging onto Turner. Too good for Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted June 8, 2023 Report Share Posted June 8, 2023 Some better news. https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/club-update-8th-june-2023/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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