Livvy v Jags

[Third Lanark]

17 minutes ago, 1876 said:

Absolutely bullied off the park. You got to wonder do we send someone to look at the opposition before we play them mens against boys .all night.  Our two wingers were defending in our own 18 yard box at one time. Plays off our only chance.  Hopefully we can get some quality in January 

I have little confidence that Doolan will bring in quality in January.  

[Big Col]

Out the cups with a whimper and the league championship now out of reach before Christmas. And a poor quality squad of players with a manager too inexperienced to make any meaningful changes.

 

But hey - we’re going to have a nice glossy governance manual and some talking shops.

 

Crisis? - what crisis?

[laukat]

Sayers looked lost all game. I was amazed to see him re-appear for the second half. 

If the manager thinks that Chalmers was the player who should have been subbed first he's more clueless than I thought. Genuinely bizarre.

Fitzpatrick was a waster of a jersey. The sort of performance that should get you taken off the park even if it meant playing with 10 men.

We are now at a crossroads. We will not win the league and we will never will under Doolan. We have a shot of the playoffs but if we want an outside chance of getting through them we need to change manager now. So the smart and ruthless thing to do is get rid and bring in someone like Neil Lennon. 

One last comment - see all the daft we Thistle Ultra's running about vandalising cars and thinking they are hard men. Give a wrap, its all been done before. It was crap in the 80's when the casuals were about and its crap now.

[Jimmy McD]

Not much more than I can say as most of it's been said before I got in from that disaster of a game... what was Dools thinking about taking off Chalmers and leaving Fitzy on, unbelievable decision..

[Third Lanark]

7 minutes ago, laukat said:

Sayers looked lost all game. I was amazed to see him re-appear for the second half. 

If the manager thinks that Chalmers was the player who should have been subbed first he's more clueless than I thought. Genuinely bizarre.

Fitzpatrick was a waster of a jersey. The sort of performance that should get you taken off the park even if it meant playing with 10 men.

We are now at a crossroads. We will not win the league and we will never will under Doolan. We have a shot of the playoffs but if we want an outside chance of getting through them we need to change manager now. So the smart and ruthless thing to do is get rid and bring in someone like Neil Lennon. 

One last comment - see all the daft we Thistle Ultra's running about vandalising cars and thinking they are hard men. Give a wrap, its all been done before. It was crap in the 80's when the casuals were about and its crap now.

And to think Doolan gave Sayers a 3 year deal despite him never having played a game up here. Utter madness 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Wasn't at the game but from watching on TV it looked like the whole team was off the pace. Certainly we weren't winning much of the ball, and even when we had it rarely strung two passes together.

Wee bit of perspective. First time we've lost by two goals in the league and only the second time we've lost two goals in a game. Even so it's hard to scrape up anything to feel optimistic about tonight.

[Jimmy McD]

7 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Wasn't at the game but from watching on TV it looked like the whole team was off the pace. Certainly we weren't winning much of the ball, and even when we had it rarely strung two passes together.

Wee bit of perspective. First time we've lost by two goals in the league and only the second time we've lost two goals in a game. Even so it's hard to scrape up anything to feel optimistic about tonight.

We were lucky it was not 5 that lost by..

[laukat]

18 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

And to think Doolan gave Sayers a 3 year deal despite him never having played a game up here. Utter madness 

Based on Sayers performance today Doolan must be using the same agents as Archibald did to find players.

Sayers is only 20 so hopefully he will come good but he's a long way off ready just now. Has to be Bannigan at leftback until Milne is fit unless we are changing to 3 at the back.

[Third Lanark]

15 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Wasn't at the game but from watching on TV it looked like the whole team was off the pace. Certainly we weren't winning much of the ball, and even when we had it rarely strung two passes together.

Wee bit of perspective. First time we've lost by two goals in the league and only the second time we've lost two goals in a game. Even so it's hard to scrape up anything to feel optimistic about tonight.

You could make an argument either way with stats.  When was the last time we were out every cup by the end of November?

when was the last time we effectively ruled out any chance of winning the league by beginning of December.  Yes there are of course the playoffs but I’m not convinced Doolan has the bottle to win them 

[fenski]

9 minutes ago, laukat said:

Based on Sayers performance today Doolan must be using the same agents as Archibald did to find players.

Sayers is only 20 so hopefully he will come good but he's a long way off ready just now. Has to be Bannigan at leftback until Milne is fit unless we are changing to 3 at the back.

Exactly - he's only twenty and hardly had a start - give hime a chance.

And recent form wise we're won 4, drawn 1, lost one, so surely everyone gets another shot at it next week?

[Garscube Road End 2]

It won't happen, as we are skint and in danger of not even getting 4th, we need fresh ideas in the dugout. Doolan is truly baffling with some of his decisions. 

He has had a generous budget to win the league and screwed it up.

I am afraid that we are going to be in a big financial hole next season.

And because of that we won't be near play offs next season.

[King Kenny]

8 hours ago, Jimmy McD said:

Not much more than I can say as most of it's been said before I got in from that disaster of a game... what was Dools thinking about taking off Chalmers and leaving Fitzy on, unbelievable decision..

Chalmers went by his man pretty easily the whole time he was on. Fitzpatrick went by his man once and even then, once by him, he stopped and passed it back when he had a clear run on goal. 
 

He has clear ability but he’s in danger of letting his career get away from him with his current fitness and attitude. He’s guaranteed a start every week though so he’s probably no incentive to work on either. 

[Lenziejag]

9 hours ago, fenski said:

Football on astro is pish. Like watching your mates up at Pitz.

Livingston managed to play on it pretty well. We just can’t seem to control the ball. It comes at us too fast, bounces off us, gets caught under our feet. However we practice on it, we aren’t doing it in a way that helps in a game on plastic.

[Jaggernaut]

Just a thought about comings and goings in January. Quite a few people are calling for the likes of Lyon, McKenzie and Diack to either go on loan or leave. However, our failings on the park since the start of the season have been due not at all to those guys, but to guys that are getting played for almost the full game week after week, regardless of their numerous howlers and the obvious fact that they are often outthought, outpaced and lightweight. So, we ship guys that get at most 10-15 minutes per game if they're lucky, and bring in guys that aren't cutting it for some reason at their parent club, and even if they are hopeless, they might well get priority in our team.

Is that right?

[Jaggernaut]

59 minutes ago, King Kenny said:

Chalmers went by his man pretty easily the whole time he was on. Fitzpatrick went by his man once and even then, once by him, he stopped and passed it back when he had a clear run on goal. 

 

Let's face it, the stop and pass back habit is ingrained throughout the team.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Jaggernaut

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, King Kenny said:

Chalmers went by his man pretty easily the whole time he was on. Fitzpatrick went by his man once and even then, once by him, he stopped and passed it back when he had a clear run on goal. 
 

He has clear ability but he’s in danger of letting his career get away from him with his current fitness and attitude. He’s guaranteed a start every week though so he’s probably no incentive to work on either. 

I hate to criticise Doolan but he got it totally wrong last night , after 15 mins you could see Kyle Turner v Yengi was a total mismatch in terms of physicality and pace and Livi targeted Kyle because of that 

Managers change things around when they see it isn’t working and I would have taken Fitzpatrick off after 20 mins and replaced him with Luke Mcbeth 

We should have taken on board Livi’s physicality and pressing before the game and set up the way we did at Ayr earlier in the.season ( flooding the midfield)

In terms of Livi’s pressing , sometimes you have to hit it long to bypass that .

Did no one in our backroom staff not know how Livi set up and play.

Last night Doolan’s tactics were totally naive .

[erty13]

Dolan is tactically naive.

No idea how to build a squad.

Scared of upsetting the senior players.

Has gone backwards every season.

We deserve better.

Edited December 14, 2024 by erty13
Spell check auto correct

[Fawlty Towers]

4 minutes ago, erty13 said:

Dylan is tactically nieve. 

No idea how to build a squad.

Scared of upsetting the senior players.

Has gone backwards every season.

We deserve better.

Don't know who Dylan is or why you think he is snow in Spanish.

We do have a good squad.

Doubt it.

Took over when we were 5th, finished season in 4th and last season in 3rd (opposite of backwards).

We do deserve better (thought out posts I mean).

[scotty]

31 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Don't know who Dylan is or why you think he is snow in Spanish.

We do have a good squad.

Doubt it.

Took over when we were 5th, finished season in 4th and last season in 3rd (opposite of backwards).

We do deserve better (thought out posts I mean).

Doolan was also the affordable option. A lot of folk on here seem to overlook that point.

[erty13]

Spending lots of money on players is different fron building a squad. 

The first few games of the season we had no right back and this cost us points.

The centre midfield is an issue. We were outplayed by Livingston in this area last night. This is a recurring theme.

We have no alternative to Brian Graham up front when he is either injured or not playing well. 

We have have scraped a few wins and draws over the last few weeks but I can only remember a few games this season when we have played well.

I do not see any evidence of changing the tactics during a game when it the set up of the team clearly is not working.

Resu.ts this season do not reflect the investment in the squad.

Do I think there are better managers than Doolan. Yes, he is underperforming based on the boards claim that we have the best squad in the league.

[jlsarmy]

13 minutes ago, scotty said:

Doolan was also the affordable option. A lot of folk on here seem to overlook that point.

He probably was the affordable option and I think he has done well in general 

As a learning manager he has made mistakes but hopefully won’t make the same mistakes again 

 

[partickthedog]

Leo Sayer has had a long and successful career. Hopefully Charlie will come good when we need him and make us all feel like dancing. The show must go on. Seriously, this was his first start and he was not the only one to be overwhelmed by Livingston's pace and power in the opening phase. He settled down into a decent performance and laid on a good chance for Brian Graham. Harry Milne is a leader and an inspiration, and we cannot expect Charlie to replicate all his qualities right away.

Stuart Bannigan has had several excellent games recently, but last night he was struggling. Maybe the pitch was particularly disruptive of how he likes to play, and he could not seem to adjust.

Honest interviews on JagZone from both Scott Robinson and Kris Doolan, and both recognised that we had been outplayed and would need to up our performance levels. However, there was a contrast in their assessments. Scott thought that we delayed too long at the back and did not get the ball forward quick enough. Kris said that we were shelling it forward too much. Maybe the two can be reconciled to the extent that we had to move the ball more quickly which might include some accurate longer passes, whereas in the game the press was forcing us backwards until our player had no time or available option other than a random punt up the park.

Chalmers was reasonable,  Smith showed a few flashes when he was on and Lawless was beginning to get up to speed. Fitzy should not assume that he is an automatic starter. Perhaps a few games on the bench will re-ignite his commitment to succeed.

[Fawlty Towers]

11 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

Leo Sayer has had a long and successful career. Hopefully Charlie will come good when we need him and make us all feel like dancing. The show must go on. Seriously, this was his first start and he was not the only one to be overwhelmed by Livingston's pace and power in the opening phase. He settled down into a decent performance and laid on a good chance for Brian Graham. Harry Milne is a leader and an inspiration, and we cannot expect Charlie to replicate all his qualities right away.

Stuart Bannigan has had several excellent games recently, but last night he was struggling. Maybe the pitch was particularly disruptive of how he likes to play, and he could not seem to adjust.

Honest interviews on JagZone from both Scott Robinson and Kris Doolan, and both recognised that we had been outplayed and would need to up our performance levels. However, there was a contrast in their assessments. Scott thought that we delayed too long at the back and did not get the ball forward quick enough. Kris said that we were shelling it forward too much. Maybe the two can be reconciled to the extent that we had to move the ball more quickly which might include some accurate longer passes, whereas in the game the press was forcing us backwards until our player had no time or available option other than a random punt up the park.

Chalmers was reasonable,  Smith showed a few flashes when he was on and Lawless was beginning to get up to speed. Fitzy should not assume that he is an automatic starter. Perhaps a few games on the bench will re-ignite his commitment to succeed.

Posts like this will give the Forum a bad name.

Remember it is "we love you Thistle we do" when we win or weekend off from posting for some then "we are rubbish, sack everyone" when we lose.

[javeajag]

We have invested in the squad beyond the level we could really afford ( called the taking a punt strategy ) to the extent we need Tranche 2 to avoid running out of money.

now look at our squad……

This  is clearly now likely to fail with a fight to get into the top four and on current form we don’t look like we can overcome Falkirk or Livi in the playoffs.

more concerning is that instead of progressing this season we have gone backwards. The quality of football is at best average and our playing style is now long ball aimless punting. We can’t score , we can’t press and we can hardly pass the ball.

its an easier league than last season but you would never know watching us.

in the summer if things stay the same Doolan should go. His post match interviews show him to be out his depth.

Edited December 14, 2024 by javeajag

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Wondered how the other grassy teams have performed on plastic so far

Ayr        P4-W2-D0-L2 - 6pts
QP         P4-W1-D2-L1 -   5pts
Morton P4-W1-D1-L2  -  4pts*
Pars      P4-W0-D1-L3 -  1pt
Jags     P4-W0-D0-L4- 0pts

*Didn't include Morton's loss at Lesser Hampden  as I think that's a hybrid pitch.