ChiThistle Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Pulling these numbers off ESPN UK… In Championship games this season: Falkirk have had 12 different players with at least 1 goal and 13 different players with at least 1 assist. Livi is 12 and 10. Ayr is 13 and 9. For Thistle, it’s 9 goal scorers and only 6 different players to register an assist. And one of those is playing at right back these days…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 We are scoring less goals this season and we have a settled first eleven. The lack of depth is concerning as is the subsequent lack of goals to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Aye, we’re pretty sh*te! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 11 hours ago, jagfox said: We are scoring less goals this season and we have a settled first eleven. The lack of depth is concerning as is the subsequent lack of goals to date. We have 25 players in the first team squad ….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, javeajag said: We have 25 players in the first team squad ….. I reckon jagfox was talking quality as opposed to quantity. And that too would be my point. Only occasionally have subs made any real impact. Key players get injured and we really miss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 You can prove almost anything you like if you pick the right statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Its an interesting stat and backed up by what we see on the pitch i.e. we don't create much and rely heavily on a very few players to create and score. I think part of the problem is our midfield is just too old. Crawford, Bannigan and Robinson are now all over 30. Crawford is very fit and does most of the work but he's expected to the do the running of 2 others. Bannigan has been better this season but to my mind he's been asked just to sit centrally and therefore he's not having to do the same amount of chasing. Robinson is a clever player but I think he's lost a little of last seasons pace. However Robinson is needed to help create particularly when Fitzpatrick is out of form so for different reasons Doolan doesn't want to drop any of the 3. I also think Doolan tries to compensate the lack of energy by using someone like Stanway even though the drop off in quality is significant. Getting Turner back in the middle will help but we really need to style and recruit a midfield to work around him not try and fit him into the role of one of the other three. That to my mind means a change in style of midfield and perhaps a change in formation. Also might mean losing some defensive strength to gain attacking threat, Turner is to my mind best centrally playing as a number 8 in a 4-4-2. We need someone alongside him who can go box to box but with slightly better defensive instincts. Bannigan can't go box to box any more and Robinson is not defensive. McBeth and Crawford are both able to go box to box and able to be defensive but neither seems to exert enough authority in the way that say Docherty could. So if we go with one of them its likely to mean more goals conceded but hopefully balanced by more goals scored. I suspect we will see the same formation and tactics tomorrow as Doolan is now in a position were he can't afford any more bad results so thinks he can't afford to experiment. However I think Doolan may well be in a downwards spiral if he continues with that approach as we know that current team and formation isn't good enough for promotion so he really needs to experiment to find something that can compete and equally show us that he's not out of ideas or hasn't wasted a large budget on a load of players that can only play formations with 3 midfielders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: You can prove almost anything you like if you pick the right statistics. 68.3% of folk in my street disagree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 9 hours ago, laukat said: Its an interesting stat and backed up by what we see on the pitch i.e. we don't create much and rely heavily on a very few players to create and score. I think part of the problem is our midfield is just too old. Crawford, Bannigan and Robinson are now all over 30. Crawford is very fit and does most of the work but he's expected to the do the running of 2 others. Bannigan has been better this season but to my mind he's been asked just to sit centrally and therefore he's not having to do the same amount of chasing. Robinson is a clever player but I think he's lost a little of last seasons pace. However Robinson is needed to help create particularly when Fitzpatrick is out of form so for different reasons Doolan doesn't want to drop any of the 3. I also think Doolan tries to compensate the lack of energy by using someone like Stanway even though the drop off in quality is significant. Getting Turner back in the middle will help but we really need to style and recruit a midfield to work around him not try and fit him into the role of one of the other three. That to my mind means a change in style of midfield and perhaps a change in formation. Also might mean losing some defensive strength to gain attacking threat, Turner is to my mind best centrally playing as a number 8 in a 4-4-2. We need someone alongside him who can go box to box but with slightly better defensive instincts. Bannigan can't go box to box any more and Robinson is not defensive. McBeth and Crawford are both able to go box to box and able to be defensive but neither seems to exert enough authority in the way that say Docherty could. So if we go with one of them its likely to mean more goals conceded but hopefully balanced by more goals scored. I suspect we will see the same formation and tactics tomorrow as Doolan is now in a position were he can't afford any more bad results so thinks he can't afford to experiment. However I think Doolan may well be in a downwards spiral if he continues with that approach as we know that current team and formation isn't good enough for promotion so he really needs to experiment to find something that can compete and equally show us that he's not out of ideas or hasn't wasted a large budget on a load of players that can only play formations with 3 midfielders. Agree with most of your post, bar the Crawford impact. He may run about but he creates very little and scores even less. I think the best we can hope for is Turner back in midfield will make a significant difference, but I'm not convinced on that either. I'm thinking the January window will either sink or save our promotion aspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) Hijack alert, but for me the most truly depressing Jags statistic is our record vs. the two ugly sisters over the past 30 years or so. Failure to win a single game against either of them in several dozens of attempts. I'd guess that it's by far the worst record of all other teams that have been in the top flight for more than a couple of seasons since the 90s. It has actually led to a state of learned helplessness, to the point that I no longer even hope that we might win against them, I sense just nothing other than defeat coming up. No other teams make me feel like that (well, except maybe Hearts in any cup competition, or maybe Dundee United in a cup or play-off.... or Livi in any crucial match.........)........ Edited January 4 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: Hijack alert, but for me the most truly depressing Jags statistic is our record vs. the two ugly sisters over the past 30 years or so. Failure to win a single game against either of them in several dozens of attempts. I'd guess that it's by far the worst record of all other teams that have been in the top flight for more than a couple of seasons since the 90s. It has actually led to a state of learned helplessness, to the point that I no longer even hope that we might win against them, I sense just nothing other than defeat coming up. No other teams make me feel like that (well, except maybe Hearts in any cup competition, or maybe Dundee United in a cup or play-off.... or Livi in any crucial match.........)........ McCall pre-sacking game excepted, I think Thistle being competitive against the OF is before my time as a fan. What was different? More quality? Less parity? Scottish talent staying local instead of bolting for EPL dreams? Narrower finance gap between the OF and other teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, ChiThistle said: McCall pre-sacking game excepted, I think Thistle being competitive against the OF is before my time as a fan. What was different? More quality? Less parity? Scottish talent staying local instead of bolting for EPL dreams? Narrower finance gap between the OF and other teams? I started following the Jags in the mid 60s, and even then they would defeat us with boring regularity, but at least occasionally we would upset the odds and get a win. It was the same with other teams against them. Not now, though, and it hasn't happened for decades and in dozens of attempts. Although winning against them is now a distant memory for us, what's especially depressing is that occasionally other teams in their division manage to grab a win, but never by us (whenever we do feature in the same division). Maybe the two cheeks now have enormously more resources at their disposal than most other clubs compared to back then, but even so, some teams still get a shock result against them. But we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 This is a huge irritation of mine, that and our performance in the cups. every club takes points off the old firm at some point, apart from us. I seen us beat celtic a few times in the 90’s when celtic werent so good, and we last beat rangers in the 90’s - the 3-0 game (i wasnt at this!). But since then there must be dozens of games we have played with maybe a draw or 2 against each to show for it. and the cups- dont get me started. In my 32 years going to the games. Every premier league club has been to at least 1 cup final in that time, most of them winning a trophy in that window. Then in lower leagues you have livi who have won a trophy, falkirk been to 3 scottish cup finals, raith won league cup, dunfermline been to cup finals, ayr and airdrie been to a cup final, queen of the south and gretna too! in that time, we’ve been to 1 semi. (Im not including our challenge cup record, which is just about equally as bad!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: It has actually led to a state of learned helplessness, to the point that I no longer even hope that we might win against them, I sense just nothing other than defeat coming up. Given our recent history in the cups, I’ve given up getting the chance to play them never mind beating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 20 hours ago, laukat said: Its an interesting stat and backed up by what we see on the pitch i.e. we don't create much and rely heavily on a very few players to create and score. I think part of the problem is our midfield is just too old. Crawford, Bannigan and Robinson are now all over 30. Crawford is very fit and does most of the work but he's expected to the do the running of 2 others. Bannigan has been better this season but to my mind he's been asked just to sit centrally and therefore he's not having to do the same amount of chasing. Robinson is a clever player but I think he's lost a little of last seasons pace. However Robinson is needed to help create particularly when Fitzpatrick is out of form so for different reasons Doolan doesn't want to drop any of the 3. I also think Doolan tries to compensate the lack of energy by using someone like Stanway even though the drop off in quality is significant. Getting Turner back in the middle will help but we really need to style and recruit a midfield to work around him not try and fit him into the role of one of the other three. That to my mind means a change in style of midfield and perhaps a change in formation. Also might mean losing some defensive strength to gain attacking threat, Turner is to my mind best centrally playing as a number 8 in a 4-4-2. We need someone alongside him who can go box to box but with slightly better defensive instincts. Bannigan can't go box to box any more and Robinson is not defensive. McBeth and Crawford are both able to go box to box and able to be defensive but neither seems to exert enough authority in the way that say Docherty could. So if we go with one of them its likely to mean more goals conceded but hopefully balanced by more goals scored. I suspect we will see the same formation and tactics tomorrow as Doolan is now in a position were he can't afford any more bad results so thinks he can't afford to experiment. However I think Doolan may well be in a downwards spiral if he continues with that approach as we know that current team and formation isn't good enough for promotion so he really needs to experiment to find something that can compete and equally show us that he's not out of ideas or hasn't wasted a large budget on a load of players that can only play formations with 3 midfielders. Ref Robinson - I thought Tuesday's match v Morton was his poorest game in a Jags strip. However, I love the fact that he never hides and he is always willing to 'put in a shift'. Thing weren't coming off for him but he never stopped trying. He started his career as a defensive midfielder and Doolan has dropped him in to that position in a couple of games this season. However, like you, I think his energy and creativity is needed further forward. Also, I'm sure you are correct about formation and tactics being the same today. I can't see Doolan's approach changing. He thinks it's working OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 I think the performance at Morton was typical of us this season. Generally solid enough at the back, no real control or creativity in the middle of the park (although I thought Banzo was comfortably best performer on the park) and completely reliant on individuals making something happen. Ultimately I have no idea what sort of team we are meant to be and think we been more lucky than not in recent weeks with a number of results. However if the results don't go in our favour that there is very little to get excited about. To me there was very little difference in our performances versus Livi, Ayr, Queens and Morton. While I don’t like saying it, I’m personally not convinced that Doolan is the right man for us anymore. I’d support bringing in someone new now, giving them the opportunity to help this talented squad reach a better level in time for the playofs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) On 1/3/2025 at 1:17 PM, Dick Dastardly said: You can prove almost anything you like if you pick the right statistics. Oh no you can’t? 😀 Sorry, I’m the embarrassing Uncle at family get together obviously! Edited January 4 by stillresigned Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Got to be honest, I never back against my team, but had the funniest feeling that we would take a doing today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westertonjagfan Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, stillresigned said: Got to be honest, I never back against my team, but had the funniest feeling that we would take a doing today. And we certainly did. Awful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyhouston Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 On 1/3/2025 at 12:48 PM, lady-isobel-barnett said: I reckon jagfox was talking quality as opposed to quantity. And that too would be my point. Only occasionally have subs made any real impact. Key players get injured and we really miss them. Bench is dross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, Derby Jag said: I think the performance at Morton was typical of us this season. Generally solid enough at the back, no real control or creativity in the middle of the park (although I thought Banzo was comfortably best performer on the park) and completely reliant on individuals making something happen. Ultimately I have no idea what sort of team we are meant to be and think we been more lucky than not in recent weeks with a number of results. However if the results don't go in our favour that there is very little to get excited about. To me there was very little difference in our performances versus Livi, Ayr, Queens and Morton. While I don’t like saying it, I’m personally not convinced that Doolan is the right man for us anymore. I’d support bringing in someone new now, giving them the opportunity to help this talented squad reach a better level in time Agree with every part of this post. Edited January 4 by Jag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 5 hours ago, stillresigned said: Got to be honest, I never back against my team, but had the funniest feeling that we would take a doing today. Dunfermline had a single point from nine away games until yesterday. The result was inevitable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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