Lenziejag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 13 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Traditional Model has worked for similar size Clubs - Falkirk - St J getting into Europe & Cup Finals we seem to be driven by a view that our Model is broke but past success ie Top Six & Promotion last time was driven by stability off the park but no one is suggesting change on how we run the Club in fact the exact opposite where the status quo remains You maybe right about the stability off the park.. But we can’t have short term stability there either. Fan ownership might offer us long term stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 13 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Traditional Model has worked for similar size Clubs - Falkirk - St J getting into Europe & Cup Finals we seem to be driven by a view that our Model is broke but past success ie Top Six & Promotion last time was driven by stability off the park but no one is suggesting change on how we run the Club in fact the exact opposite where the status quo remains The view seems to be held by several posters on here that, if only some rich benefactor had stepped in, bought up the shares the directors were off-loading and somehow taken us back to the glory-days of Thistle being a huge and successful club, all would be rosy at Firhill. Well it didn't happen. No multi-millionaire came forward with bottomless pockets and offered to fund us out of the financial drain we faced. Fan ownership was one solution and one which a lot of fans were willing to show faith in. A few fans are putting a lot of effort in to making it work and are supported by a large proportion of the rest. This is done with a background of a barrage of constant criticism from a few people who have a dislike of fan-ownership but who never once have come up with any viable alternative. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifexile Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 On 4/9/2025 at 8:49 AM, Jordanhill Jag said: And if we are failing - who takes the blame ? The DofS or the Manager ? And if we win the league next season who takes the credit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, King Kenny said: Genuine question and not looking to stir the pot on this... Would you have been ok with the Sporting Director role if McCall had been successful? I have my doubts about the role as well, I think it is quite a high risk but he's in place now so he deserves our backing until his performance shows otherwise. I do not think we need a Sporting Director possibly someone with Recruitment Experience given this Seasons Carcrash - but nothing more than that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, scotty said: The view seems to be held by several posters on here that, if only some rich benefactor had stepped in, bought up the shares the directors were off-loading and somehow taken us back to the glory-days of Thistle being a huge and successful club, all would be rosy at Firhill. Well it didn't happen. No multi-millionaire came forward with bottomless pockets and offered to fund us out of the financial drain we faced. Fan ownership was one solution and one which a lot of fans were willing to show faith in. A few fans are putting a lot of effort in to making it work and are supported by a large proportion of the rest. This is done with a background of a barrage of constant criticism from a few people who have a dislike of fan-ownership but who never once have come up with any viable alternative. First we were bought by a Rich Benefactor - and owned by 3BC - Fan Ownership was imposed ( or the 3BC version of it ) Then the jostling for Power - if Caldwell was a decent manager - no one would have cared about 3BC passing on shares to Fans or the model 3BC version was fans owned shares - they ran the Club - TJF version was they owned the shares via the Trusts - they decide who and how we run the Club under there agreements and control targets - they decide the Board - they control the Club - so its on them There are many well run Fan Owned Clubs - so equating criticism of the Thistle Set up and Fan Ownership -is an attempt to shut people up For Thistle its not working and the responsibility for that is with TJF Edited April 10 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: You maybe right about the stability off the park.. But we can’t have short term stability there either. Fan ownership might offer us long term stability. Show me on any level how our current set up is leading to long term stability - its a complete mess. without Donald Mclymont ( and Alastair Creevy earlier on ) we would be bust. and TJF and the other Trusts sacked Alastair Creevy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 I think if there are concerns about the new model its not really about if Barraclough is the right man for the Sporting Director as for all anyone knows he could be ideal. The concern is more what does the new role do, what does it or doesn't it do in comparison to existing roles, how does it pay for itself and how do know if its successful? In theory if the Sporting Director post takes on some aspects of Womens and Mens recruitement as well as aspects of the Youth Academy then perhaps we are looking lower paid posts as Head coaches in those 3 areas which possibly frees up wages to pay for the Sporting Director? Measuring success looks a bit trickier. Barraclough talked in the media conference of wanting us back in the premier league but I don't think anyone asked him what our board has set him as objectives. It could be they've asked him to get us to the premier league but within say 5 years rather than next season. If so is his job to restructure the football coaching setup and recruitment policy to produce players through the ranks in 3 years time or is it all about next season? The squad will need an overhaul this summer. I think we only have 15 players in contract for next season. Squad size varies but usually minimum of 21 so that means 6 new players. Bannigan is out of contract and its difficult to see a scenario with the Head coach position that results in Graham playing for us next season as our main striker. So is next season a transition year i.e. lower the cost and age of the playing squad and lay foundations for 26/27 or beyond? If that's the objective the Sporting Director's been set then that probably means he doesn't have anything really to worry about next season as he won't be judged for at least another season however the Head Coach could be in for a hard time as he tries to get results with an inexperienced squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 34 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: I do not think we need a Sporting Director possibly someone with Recruitment Experience given this Seasons Carcrash - but nothing more than that So are you saying we should employ someone as a recruitment director? What would the job description and salary be for that post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, fifexile said: And if we win the league next season who takes the credit? Winning the Premier League next season would be amazing and everyone should take credit for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 5 minutes ago, scotty said: So are you saying we should employ someone as a recruitment director? What would the job description and salary be for that post? I never said we require a Recruitment Director ? I said we need an experienced person in Recruitment and at best its a Part Time role for a Club our size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 5 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Winning the Premier League next season would be amazing and everyone should take credit for that. Success has many parents - failure is an orphan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 9 minutes ago, laukat said: I think if there are concerns about the new model its not really about if Barraclough is the right man for the Sporting Director as for all anyone knows he could be ideal. The concern is more what does the new role do, what does it or doesn't it do in comparison to existing roles, how does it pay for itself and how do know if its successful? In theory if the Sporting Director post takes on some aspects of Womens and Mens recruitement as well as aspects of the Youth Academy then perhaps we are looking lower paid posts as Head coaches in those 3 areas which possibly frees up wages to pay for the Sporting Director? Measuring success looks a bit trickier. Barraclough talked in the media conference of wanting us back in the premier league but I don't think anyone asked him what our board has set him as objectives. It could be they've asked him to get us to the premier league but within say 5 years rather than next season. If so is his job to restructure the football coaching setup and recruitment policy to produce players through the ranks in 3 years time or is it all about next season? The squad will need an overhaul this summer. I think we only have 15 players in contract for next season. Squad size varies but usually minimum of 21 so that means 6 new players. Bannigan is out of contract and its difficult to see a scenario with the Head coach position that results in Graham playing for us next season as our main striker. So is next season a transition year i.e. lower the cost and age of the playing squad and lay foundations for 26/27 or beyond? If that's the objective the Sporting Director's been set then that probably means he doesn't have anything really to worry about next season as he won't be judged for at least another season however the Head Coach could be in for a hard time as he tries to get results with an inexperienced squad. Thats why we went for a Sporting Director - nice and vague - no real measurement of success - 3 to 5 Year Plan its called managed decline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 Sense the overriding factor, above even defined roles and responsibility, will be the standard of compatibility between SD and Head Coach. A really good working relationship and the whole could be greater than the sum of the parts. The opposite can of course also apply. You get two well qualified for their respective jobs but somehow don't gel. You then run the risk of underperformance. I've seen examples of both in my past employment. I suspect many others on here can identify with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 On 4/8/2025 at 9:15 PM, Norgethistle said: Leicester City won the EPL using the method Sounds interesting Stuart, it’s something I know very little about. I always thought it was an American thing but clearly it’s been used over in the UK. Is this the thing that based on loads of analysis, data etc. can only think if any manager is looking to sign a player then the more information they have on them from data, stats etc can only be a good thing. under various managers we have been unlucky with injuries. A lot clearly have happened at the club, but if perhaps this helps identify more data about a player being quite injury prone etc in the past then it’s more information to whoever is considering signing a player to take into consideration when making the decision. As I say I don’t know enough about it more information and stats on players can only be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: First we were bought by a Rich Benefactor - and owned by 3BC - Fan Ownership was imposed ( or the 3BC version of it ) Then the jostling for Power - if Caldwell was a decent manager - no one would have cared about 3BC passing on shares to Fans or the model 3BC version was fans owned shares - they ran the Club - TJF version was they owned the shares via the Trusts - they decide who and how we run the Club under there agreements and control targets - they decide the Board - they control the Club - so its on them There are many well run Fan Owned Clubs - so equating criticism of the Thistle Set up and Fan Ownership -is an attempt to shut people up For Thistle its not working and the responsibility for that is with TJF You're mostly not in favour of being frozen out of having of influence at Firhill. We get it. Run for the TJF or stfu. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Success has many parents - failure is an orphan Knowledge is power. France is Bacon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, madcapmilkdrinker said: You're mostly not in favour of being frozen out of having of influence at Firhill. We get it. Run for the TJF or stfu. Ok -so unless you stand for election for TJF - you are not allowed to comment ? frozen out of what exactly ? Ive not had anything to do with decisions at the Club for 8 Years - so what Im I being frozen out of ? We are going backwards - there is no plan beyond managed decline & controlling expectations The status quo is the priority and TJF and only TJF represent the Fans Views ? Edited April 10 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 51 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: and TJF and only TJF represent the Fans Views ? You tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Show me on any level how our current set up is leading to long term stability - its a complete mess. without Donald Mclymont ( and Alastair Creevy earlier on ) we would be bust. and TJF and the other Trusts sacked Alastair Creevy The first thing is that the club can’t be sold without the fans voting for it. It’s not dependent on a few shareholders but all the beneficiaries - over 2,000. As long as it is managed properly, we won’t have another cash flow crisis thanks to Donald McClymont, Alastair Creevy and the luck of the Rangers cup tie. (The mess began under JLow, maybe even before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 Self evidently the “sugar daddy” ownership model is one to be avoided and in that respect we are fortunate. Having said that, the current ownership model purporting to be “fan ownership” seems to be less successful than hoped for, a victim perhaps of high hopes which have, for some, not been realised. I have no particular axe to grind as regards “fan ownership” but I wish it could be seen to be operating in a transparent and accountable manner instead of being part of a seeming “them and us” narrative which is precisely what it isn’t meant to be. The dedication of the few who lead this approach is to be applauded, along with the sizeable “silent majority” who support the approach but there might be a worthwhile task in trying to engage with those who are yet to be convinced but haven’t closed their minds to the concept. Those who apparently believe the structure is riddled with “old pals” and self interest might be more difficult to engage but shouldn’t be dismissed, it is, after all, only a football club and life is perhaps too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, JeanieD said: Self evidently the “sugar daddy” ownership model is one to be avoided and in that respect we are fortunate. Having said that, the current ownership model purporting to be “fan ownership” seems to be less successful than hoped for, a victim perhaps of high hopes which have, for some, not been realised. I have no particular axe to grind as regards “fan ownership” but I wish it could be seen to be operating in a transparent and accountable manner instead of being part of a seeming “them and us” narrative which is precisely what it isn’t meant to be. The dedication of the few who lead this approach is to be applauded, along with the sizeable “silent majority” who support the approach but there might be a worthwhile task in trying to engage with those who are yet to be convinced but haven’t closed their minds to the concept. Those who apparently believe the structure is riddled with “old pals” and self interest might be more difficult to engage but shouldn’t be dismissed, it is, after all, only a football club and life is perhaps too short. In what way do you think it has been less successful than hoped and in what way do you not think it has been transparent and accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, JeanieD said: Self evidently the “sugar daddy” ownership model is one to be avoided and in that respect we are fortunate. Having said that, the current ownership model purporting to be “fan ownership” seems to be less successful than hoped for, a victim perhaps of high hopes which have, for some, not been realised. I have no particular axe to grind as regards “fan ownership” but I wish it could be seen to be operating in a transparent and accountable manner instead of being part of a seeming “them and us” narrative which is precisely what it isn’t meant to be. The dedication of the few who lead this approach is to be applauded, along with the sizeable “silent majority” who support the approach but there might be a worthwhile task in trying to engage with those who are yet to be convinced but haven’t closed their minds to the concept. Those who apparently believe the structure is riddled with “old pals” and self interest might be more difficult to engage but shouldn’t be dismissed, it is, after all, only a football club and life is perhaps too short. We have been funded to the Tune of £1 Million by Donald Mclymont - how is that not a "Sugar Daddy" funding Model ( to use your terminology ) ? What is it that Fan Ownership is actually delivering on the conventional models cant ? As for "the sizeable majority" there was little or no demand for Fan Ownership whilst in the Premier - in fact Fans had no real say - we were told by the New Owners at 3BC that this was the Model we were getting TJF then established itself as the defacto controlling body and that was it So lets not rewrite History that Fan Ownership was the what Fans wanted - we never actually got a say What Fans want is success & sustainability - none of which we have actually delivered - despite significant sums of cash being pumped into the Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, Lenziejag said: The first thing is that the club can’t be sold without the fans voting for it. It’s not dependent on a few shareholders but all the beneficiaries - over 2,000. As long as it is managed properly, we won’t have another cash flow crisis thanks to Donald McClymont, Alastair Creevy and the luck of the Rangers cup tie. (The mess began under JLow, maybe even before). If we slipped into debt & cant fund it - them we have no option but to sell parts of the Club to whomever ( Fan owned or not ) Fan Ownership guarantees nothing - trading in the Black does - not sure why people don't get that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 19 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: In what way do you think it has been less successful than hoped and in what way do you not think it has been transparent and accountable? For starters the Board are agreed at a secret Meeting with TJF Board / Trustees without any justification as to why they simply re-elect the same people There is no clear blue water between the Majority Shareholder & the Club Board - a Majority Shareholder holds Boards to Account - that doesn't happen - in fact by involving itself in things like recruitment & interviews of Key Staff Members - it becomes part of the Management of the Club & makes it impossible to act as detached organisation The Board in turn do the bidding of TJF- in order to keep there place on the Board - even allowing a TJF "special Director" despite two directly elected Board Reps - if that cosy arrangement is not a clear sign as to who calls the shots at the CIub - have no idea what is ? Hence no one really knows who is running the Club & No one is accountable on any level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 10 Report Share Posted April 10 Obviously we have no idea how Iain Baraclough will actually do or exactly what the role will entice. But one thing i have noticed and liked - he comes across as nice, polite and maybe most importantly as someone without a huge ego. See the amount of interviews I’ve seen with football coaches/managers etc where you get the word “I” of in particular the word “listen” like your a kid. Brian Graham uses this “listen” phrase but the worst offender I watched was Lee Bullen. The guy used to use it about 5 or 6 times per interview when he was manager of Ayr- unbelievable! Good to see none of that from Ian nor the word “I” but instead the word “we”. Actually refreshing to hear that from a football person and comes across as someone wishing to talk to you rather than talk down to you. I know it’s only a minor point but it is good to see 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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