Fawlty Towers Posted June 3 Report Share Posted June 3 (edited) Given we have just started the new accounting period for the club and season tickets go on sale the issue of finance/budgets raises its head. So far the strategy from the club has seen walk up ticket prices increase, season ticket prices increase and Jagzone subscriptions increase. Personally I can tolerate this but with the caveat that we need this to be part of a break even budget and see much more efficiency from the off the pitch team. A lot has been made of getting better deals for sponsorship than the ones that have been in place so it will be interesting to see who takes over from Clydebuilt as main shirt sponsor (I appreciate we won't be told how much more the new sponsors are paying). As well as increasing revenue there will need to be a reduction in spending and the area that looks likely to take a hit is the playing budget. The Board took what it believed was a calculated risk last season for reasons that have been well documented but that is no longer an option and I will be interested to see what the plan is. I expect TJF (in their role as one of the trustees) to be holding the board's feet to the fire with regards to the budget. Edited June 3 by Fawlty Towers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted June 3 Report Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: Given we have just started the new accounting period for the club and season tickets go on sale the issue of finance/budgets raises its head. So far the strategy from the club has seen walk up ticket prices increase, season ticket prices increase and Jagzone subscriptions increase. Personally I can tolerate this but with the caveat that we need this to be part of a break even budget and see much more efficiency from the off the pitch team. A lot has been made of getting better deals for sponsorship than the ones that have been in place so it will be interesting to see who takes over from Clydebuilt as main shirt sponsor (I appreciate we won't be told how much more the new sponsors are paying). As well as increasing revenue there will need to be a reduction in spending and the area that looks likely to take a hit is the playing budget. The Board took what it believed was a calculated risk last season for reasons that have been well documented but that is no longer an option and I will be interested to see what the plan is. I expect TJF to be holding the board's feet to the fire with regards to the budget. Important to note that a true breakeven budget involves a lot of forecasting and “best guesses” about placement, match day attendance (especially from away fans), and things outwith our direct control. No different from any other business, but I would say it’s uniquely more challenging for a football club operating at our level that can’t absorb losses so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 3 Author Report Share Posted June 3 Just now, ChiThistle said: Important to note that a true breakeven budget involves a lot of forecasting and “best guesses” about placement, match day attendance (especially from away fans), and things outwith our direct control. No different from any other business, but I would say it’s uniquely more challenging for a football club operating at our level that can’t absorb losses so well. Good points and the TV deal that is in place does not help with the number of games that get moved to Friday nights at relatively short notice - I can't imagine the money we get makes up for the decrease in attendance and hospitality plus increased cost with floodlights depending on time of year. However, there are lots of things within our control and we need to be more realistic about these. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted June 3 Report Share Posted June 3 As far as i know we budget for getting knocked out of the cup competitions at the first round we enter, so doing better than that would help, also improving on whatever league position we budget for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted June 3 Report Share Posted June 3 11 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: As far as i know we budget for getting knocked out of the cup competitions at the first round we enter, so doing better than that would help, also improving on whatever league position we budget for. Out of likes but, yes. There’s loads of potential for what is the footballing equivalent of finding loose change in your sofa. On a macro scale, the Rangers away cup tie from a few years ago. That’s the real trick - forecasting conservatively, while ensuring you have a competitive squad and enough cash to meet your immediately current liabilities. I think this is what @Woodstock Jag was referencing with the “margin of safety”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 3 Author Report Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: As far as i know we budget for getting knocked out of the cup competitions at the first round we enter, so doing better than that would help, also improving on whatever league position we budget for. It should be the case for the Scottish Cup and Trust Trophy that you budget for the prize money based on getting knocked out at the stage you enter (once the draw is made you can factor in things like gate money, travel costs or running costs). In the league cup we know we have 2 home games in the group stage (Stranraer & QoS this season both midweeks) so you have to make an eductated guess on crowds. Budget wise I would think we would look at being one of the non qualifying second place teams. For the league it is harder because if you say lets budget for being 10th you are giving yourself less resources so increase the chances of finishing lower down but if you assume winning it and don't then you are in trouble as well so I can appreciate it is difficult for the Board but this is where good, open communication is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 3 Report Share Posted June 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 3 Author Report Share Posted June 3 Of course I totally refute the idea as well that I started this topic just so I could plug the following: https://partickthistlefc.clubforce.com/products/lotto/partick-thistle-football-club-lotto https://ptfc.co.uk/fans/players-fund/ https://ptfc.co.uk/season-tickets/ https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/ (The Jags Foundation as cause) https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 I think the levels of increase are too high - 10% on ticket price; 33% on Jagzone; 100% on physical ST. What are the board’s expectations on ST sales; Jagzone subscriptions and attendances based on these increases. Or have they just assumed that everyone will just dip into their pocket for each increase ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: I think the levels of increase are too high - 10% on ticket price; 33% on Jagzone; 100% on physical ST. What are the board’s expectations on ST sales; Jagzone subscriptions and attendances based on these increases. Or have they just assumed that everyone will just dip into their pocket for each increase ? In answer to the ticket price question, I see from the PTFC archive that the price of a ticket in 2018 was £20. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, £20 in 2018 is worth £26 today. So even with the price rise, the cost of a ticket has gone down in real terms. I don't see the point of the physical ST for the majority of people who regularly carry smartphones. I did get one last time, and never used it once. Don't think I'll bother this time (I'll print out a screenshot of the QR code as back up in case of phone faliure) ETA: I should clarify that the price mentioned above was for the Championship season (2018-19), to keep things like-for-like. Edited June 4 by Duke Gekantawa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 7 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said: In answer to the ticket price question, I see from the PTFC archive that the price of a ticket in 2018 was £20. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, £20 in 2018 is worth £26 today. So even with the price rise, the cost of a ticket has gone down in real terms. I don't see the point of the physical ST for the majority of people who regularly carry smartphones. I did get one last time, and never used it once. Don't think I'll bother this time (I'll print out a screenshot of the QR code as back up in case of phone faliure) ETA: I should clarify that the price mentioned above was for the Championship season (2018-19), to keep things like-for-like. Twice last season I arrived at Firhill, having walked along the canal for a mile and a half just to realise my phone was at home. Another couple of times, I couldn't open the fanbase app so I was grateful to have bought the physical ticket and have done so again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 2 minutes ago, scotty said: Twice last season I arrived at Firhill, having walked along the canal for a mile and a half just to realise my phone was at home. Another couple of times, I couldn't open the fanbase app so I was grateful to have bought the physical ticket and have done so again. On the latter point, it's a good idea to always have a screenshot in your photo library, in case of app failure or bad internet service. I'm much more likely to leave my wallet at home (with phone payment, I rarely use my wallet anyway) than my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said: In answer to the ticket price question, I see from the PTFC archive that the price of a ticket in 2018 was £20. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, £20 in 2018 is worth £26 today. So even with the price rise, the cost of a ticket has gone down in real terms. I don't see the point of the physical ST for the majority of people who regularly carry smartphones. I did get one last time, and never used it once. Don't think I'll bother this time (I'll print out a screenshot of the QR code as back up in case of phone faliure) ETA: I should clarify that the price mentioned above was for the Championship season (2018-19), to keep things like-for-like. I am not going into the technology issues we had last year with android/iphone concession/carer tickets, but physical tickets was the only solution Fanbase offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 Haha, this is the kind of conversation that just 10 years ago would have been incomprehensible to most supporters. Let's hope that our youngsters and older "with it" guys can keep things going, and see PTFC do some amazing things before too long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 I have no idea what this thread I'd supposed to be about. Our club needs money. We need to balance the books. Give the club money please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 4 Author Report Share Posted June 4 25 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: I have no idea what this thread I'd supposed to be about. Our club needs money. We need to balance the books. Give the club money please. As Meg Ryan once said - Yes, Yes, Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted June 8 Author Report Share Posted June 8 Looks like we have a new Commercial Manager (although that has not been announced by the club it is on the website). https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/our-people/ I wish Jim well as it is an area that we need to improve on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 8 Report Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: Looks like we have a new Commercial Manager (although that has not been announced by the club it is on the website). https://ptfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/our-people/ I wish Jim well as it is an area that we need to improve on. We do appear to have more paid employees than recently claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted June 8 Report Share Posted June 8 On 6/3/2025 at 6:06 PM, Fawlty Towers said: Good points and the TV deal that is in place does not help with the number of games that get moved to Friday nights at relatively short notice - I can't imagine the money we get makes up for the decrease in attendance and hospitality plus increased cost with floodlights depending on time of year. However, there are lots of things within our control and we need to be more realistic about these. So why is this to deal in place? Can someone from the league please explain the rationale? Can someone from the club explain whether we have protested vehemently about this arrangement? Can anyone estimate how many Saturday games that season ticket holders will miss? We need to know what we’re buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted June 8 Report Share Posted June 8 From the sounds of the most recent TJF update, budgeting for next season is still ongoing which is somewhat concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 9 Report Share Posted June 9 8 hours ago, sandy said: We do appear to have more paid employees than recently claimed. It was non-footballing staff. That link does not suggest we do unless you know of any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted June 9 Report Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, Weebaw1 said: So why is this to deal in place? Can someone from the league please explain the rationale? Can someone from the club explain whether we have protested vehemently about this arrangement? Can anyone estimate how many Saturday games that season ticket holders will miss? We need to know what we’re buying. And there's even more! Another 10. BBC announcement 27/12/24. BBC Scotland has agreed a new contract to televise up to 30 Scottish Championship matches per season and show web-based highlights of second-tier games and League 1 and 2 matches. The existing deal allowed the broadcaster to show up to 20 live Championship games every season. The weekly highlights programme showing action from that division and the third and fourth tiers will be streamed on the BBC Sport website and app each Monday and will begin early in the new year. The new arrangements are add-ons to the deal between the BBC and Scottish Professional Football League that runs until the end of the 2028-29 season. BBC Scotland head of commissioning Louise Thornton said: "It's great news for audiences that we've secured the rights to show more live matches and provide a new highlights package. "The BBC Scotland channel has been the home of live Championship matches on Friday nights since 2019 and we're delighted this additional agreement with the SPFL allows us to cover even more games from this exciting league." SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster added: "It is fantastic to expand our partnership with the BBC to show even more live William Hill Championship games. "The league is renowned for its incredible excitement and drama and having up to 30 games broadcast live each season from the William Hill Championship is great news for Scottish football fans. "For the past two seasons, our social media team have done a terrific job producing an excellent highlights programme, available on YouTube. "We are delighted that BBC Scotland will be taking over responsibility for that programme in the new year. This is great news for fans wanting to catch up with all the best action from across our leagues." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 9 Report Share Posted June 9 On 6/3/2025 at 6:06 PM, Fawlty Towers said: Good points and the TV deal that is in place does not help with the number of games that get moved to Friday nights at relatively short notice - I can't imagine the money we get makes up for the decrease in attendance and hospitality plus increased cost with floodlights depending on time of year. However, there are lots of things within our control and we need to be more realistic about these. 10 hours ago, Weebaw1 said: So why is this to deal in place? Can someone from the league please explain the rationale? Can someone from the club explain whether we have protested vehemently about this arrangement? Can anyone estimate how many Saturday games that season ticket holders will miss? We need to know what we’re buying. How do you know that the club doesn’t make more from the games being televised than it would if not ? You have made an assumption rather than knowing the facts. I’ve not seen any clubs objecting, which would suggest that the TV deal is beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 9 Report Share Posted June 9 54 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: How do you know that the club doesn’t make more from the games being televised than it would if not ? You have made an assumption rather than knowing the facts. I’ve not seen any clubs objecting, which would suggest that the TV deal is beneficial. Not answering your question, I know. If it's a flat rate amount for each game then the benefit/disadvantage will vary per club, largely dependent on their normal attendances. To take it to extremes if Pars v Queens Pk is a selected fixture there's bound to be a drop off in attendance in non ST fans in an estimated 4500 crowd. Even if its only 200-300 were talking about circa £5000+. I would imagine moving a Saturday game to a Friday night and putting it on council TV will result in a significantly higher loss at the turnstiles. Conversely televising a Queens Pk v Dunfermline fixture at the ridiculous Lesser Hampden will have no negative effect to the home club whatsoever. No drop in attendance, Gross = Nett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 9 Report Share Posted June 9 The money from the TV deal goes into the SPFL Prize money pot so again the teams higher up the ladder benefit far more proportionately than those clubs actually involved. As there is more clarity from North Korea at the moment we can only go on assumptions that a clubs own matchday revenue would be less on a Friday night rather than a Saturday night based on tickets sold, hospitality and sponsorships being down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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