jagfox Posted July 2 Author Report Share Posted July 2 3 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: On 7/1/2025 at 10:28 PM, lady-isobel-barnett said: we're weak and vulnerable. I think he could be the answer tho. Strong, can break the lives Vlad the Impaling Jag? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted July 2 Report Share Posted July 2 i think the best 3 players at the club are all centre backs, if we do go back 4, then i think macbeth will be sacrificial lamb into midfield. Which i dont agree with, for me, since he signed hes been best player at the club (thats still here) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Even after putting aside the current state of the squad, it seems inconceivable that at any time in the first half of the season McBeth will start most games on the bench. Just as inconceivable playing a back four that the captain or the left sided O'Reilly would be dropped to accommodate Luke. Maybe we look too much into formation? If McBeth starts in defensive midfield and drops into the back line when defending it's not too much different from him starting in a back three and moving forward when we're attacking (as indeed he's done). Bit like wingbacks who'll make it a back five when called upon. It's still not ideal as I think McBeth is best when he picks the ball up from the back line and drives forward rather than collecting it further up the park, but needs be. Putting a positive spin on things a centreback pairing of Ashcroft & O'Reilly should be the least of our worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 57 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Even after putting aside the current state of the squad, it seems inconceivable that at any time in the first half of the season McBeth will start most games on the bench. Just as inconceivable playing a back four that the captain or the left sided O'Reilly would be dropped to accommodate Luke. Maybe we look too much into formation? If McBeth starts in defensive midfield and drops into the back line when defending it's not too much different from him starting in a back three and moving forward when we're attacking (as indeed he's done). Bit like wingbacks who'll make it a back five when called upon. It's still not ideal as I think McBeth is best when he picks the ball up from the back line and drives forward rather than collecting it further up the park, but needs be. Putting a positive spin on things a centreback pairing of Ashcroft & O'Reilly should be the least of our worries. With MacBeth and OReilly either side, Ashcroft’s lack of pace is not badly exposed. He’s an old fashioned Jim Holton defender who dominates in the air. Play a back 3 with Luke striding out like a thoroughbred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 11 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said: With MacBeth and OReilly either side, Ashcroft’s lack of pace is not badly exposed. He’s an old fashioned Jim Holton defender who dominates in the air. Play a back 3 with Luke striding out like a thoroughbred. You make a good point but...... Six foot nothing, Eyes of blue Quite Big Lee Ashcroft is after you. .... just doesn't scan 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Agree with @lady-isobel-barnett that we can be quite fixated on formations such as 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2 etc when in reality they are only really starting positions. From what what I have seen in the 2 friendlies so far Wilson is changing the nature of how the fullbacks play. We have for the last few seasons been used to seeing overlapping fullbacks when we have possession so that it creates overloads in wide area's. To my mind it was noticeable against Glenafton and against ICT that Wilson is looking for the fullbacks to either underlap or be more central and almost become the midfield allowing the likes of Stanway and Crawford to make runs into the box and get beyond the strikers. In theory pulls a wide defender into central area's and leaves our wingers with more space and a 1v1 against the opposition fullback which in turn makes us less predictable in attack and less reliant on a striker for goals. Second half of the ICT game showed this particularly when Lowe and Logan were our fullbacks. Logan is very good at making underlapping runs, Lowe is pretty good on the ball and able to pick a pass and put in a decent cross. Harkness tried to play as an overlapping fullback putting more pressure on our weak midfield and whilst Reading was trying to underlap Fitzpatrick he's not as good as Low on the ball and got caught in possession a couple of times. So if we are looking at formations against ICT we looked more like a 2-3-2-3 when we had the ball with occasional periods where either Logan, Stanway or Crawford would go further forward and we end up with almost 5 up front but people finding space in the defensive channels rather than just out wide and overloading the fullback. Downside is that if an opposition can break quickly they will find space in wide areas which will in turn mean our centre backs getting pulled wide. So might not be the worst thing to have a centre back play as CDM who can drop in central in that scenario and immediately have 3 at the back. Where I think the issues are is that I'm not convinced Reading can play in that system as he looks more like a wingback who can carry the ball but struggles with delivery and on defensive duties. Low looks better in possession but still not got the physicality required for the defensive work. Whilst we become less reliant on a striker to score goals we need a striker with better movement to create spaces for the advanced midfielders to exploit. For our wingers to exploit the 1v1's requires them to have a few tricks which I think only Chalmers and Lawless truly have as Fitzpatrick and MacKay are more about pace. Conversely we need the wingers to have pace to cover back quickly and Lawless doesn't have that. I would also add that we will be asking O'Reilly and Ashcroft to do a lot more quick changes of direction so we might well find they start to pick up more injuries than last season. I like Dolan and I think he can cope with first team football but we might still need another centre half for cover 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 If Baraclough is back in the UK now, recuperating, I hope he can contribute to the sourcing of players who Mark might consider adding to the squad. Even if it’s just keeping in touch by phone while his injuries heal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 30 minutes ago, sandy said: If Baraclough is back in the UK now, recuperating, I hope he can contribute to the sourcing of players who Mark might consider adding to the squad. As long as Wilson doesn't refer to them as a pool of players. Be a bit insensitive, methinks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 hours ago, laukat said: Agree with @lady-isobel-barnett that we can be quite fixated on formations such as 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2 etc when in reality they are only really starting positions. From what what I have seen in the 2 friendlies so far Wilson is changing the nature of how the fullbacks play. We have for the last few seasons been used to seeing overlapping fullbacks when we have possession so that it creates overloads in wide area's. To my mind it was noticeable against Glenafton and against ICT that Wilson is looking for the fullbacks to either underlap or be more central and almost become the midfield allowing the likes of Stanway and Crawford to make runs into the box and get beyond the strikers. In theory pulls a wide defender into central area's and leaves our wingers with more space and a 1v1 against the opposition fullback which in turn makes us less predictable in attack and less reliant on a striker for goals. Second half of the ICT game showed this particularly when Lowe and Logan were our fullbacks. Logan is very good at making underlapping runs, Lowe is pretty good on the ball and able to pick a pass and put in a decent cross. Harkness tried to play as an overlapping fullback putting more pressure on our weak midfield and whilst Reading was trying to underlap Fitzpatrick he's not as good as Low on the ball and got caught in possession a couple of times. So if we are looking at formations against ICT we looked more like a 2-3-2-3 when we had the ball with occasional periods where either Logan, Stanway or Crawford would go further forward and we end up with almost 5 up front but people finding space in the defensive channels rather than just out wide and overloading the fullback. Downside is that if an opposition can break quickly they will find space in wide areas which will in turn mean our centre backs getting pulled wide. So might not be the worst thing to have a centre back play as CDM who can drop in central in that scenario and immediately have 3 at the back. Where I think the issues are is that I'm not convinced Reading can play in that system as he looks more like a wingback who can carry the ball but struggles with delivery and on defensive duties. Low looks better in possession but still not got the physicality required for the defensive work. Whilst we become less reliant on a striker to score goals we need a striker with better movement to create spaces for the advanced midfielders to exploit. For our wingers to exploit the 1v1's requires them to have a few tricks which I think only Chalmers and Lawless truly have as Fitzpatrick and MacKay are more about pace. Conversely we need the wingers to have pace to cover back quickly and Lawless doesn't have that. I would also add that we will be asking O'Reilly and Ashcroft to do a lot more quick changes of direction so we might well find they start to pick up more injuries than last season. I like Dolan and I think he can cope with first team football but we might still need another centre half for cover Great analysis, thanks. No doubt some will disagree, but this is the kind of analysis that we need now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 Anyone got any idea where the 'closed door' friendly vs Hamilton will be played? I'd assume Petershill as Garscube is no longer used for training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, jagfox said: Anyone got any idea where the 'closed door' friendly vs Hamilton will be played? I'd assume Petershill as Garscube is no longer used for training. Suppose it could be Broadwood ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Fabrizio Romano reporting that AEK Athens have signed Penners from Hearts👍 Gaun yersel wee man, he was outstanding in every game I watched last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcapmilkdrinker Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 8 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: Great analysis, thanks. No doubt some will disagree, but this is the kind of analysis that we need now. Agreed apart from the multiple uses of the word un*erl*p which has to be the ugliest word in the English language. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 4 Report Share Posted July 4 13 hours ago, jags on tour said: Fabrizio Romano reporting that AEK Athens have signed Penners from Hearts👍 Gaun yersel wee man, he was outstanding in every game I watched last season. 70k euros for us I hear. Gotta feeling these sort of payments can either trickle down and/or take ages. So unless our cash flow has improved remarkably probably no immediate help re signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 5 Author Report Share Posted July 5 I thought i read payments received from Academy player transactions went towards the Academy? Not sure if this is still the case? I'd hope a part would anyway to move that facit of the club towards sustainability or even a positive on the balance street. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 (edited) Today we have the closed door game against Hamilton and there is a youth tournament in which we are taking part so it could be that it is a very young squad playing in the tournament or guys like Falconer, Low, etc playing in the tournament with the Hamilton game having some more trialists involved. I am always amazed with friendlies, even if they are closed door, at how many people know who trialists are anyway. Edited July 5 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 5 Author Report Share Posted July 5 Tsoanelo Letsosa midfield trialist. Moore scored a good goal and had one ruled out for offside. Seemed to have a good game. Final score 4-1: Moore (trialist), Chalmers, Crawford and Fitzpatrick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 On 7/4/2025 at 10:50 AM, lady-isobel-barnett said: 70k euros for us I hear. Gotta feeling these sort of payments can either trickle down and/or take ages. So unless our cash flow has improved remarkably probably no immediate help re signings. Really pleased for James Penrice and how’s he’s turned his career around and now to reap the rewards . Doesn’t seem long ago that Archie told him that he wanted Penners to be as fit as Christie Elliott!! Getting 70k on a 2 million transfer doesn’t seem great for a sell on clause . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 8 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Really pleased for James Penrice and how’s he’s turned his career around and now to reap the rewards . Doesn’t seem long ago that Archie told him that he wanted Penners to be as fit as Christie Elliott!! Getting 70k on a 2 million transfer doesn’t seem great for a sell on clause . It’s not a sell on clause, it’s a development fee as he’s now changing football associations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 49 minutes ago, jagfox said: Tsoanelo Letsosa midfield trialist. Moore scored a good goal and had one ruled out for offside. Seemed to have a good game. Final score 4-1: Moore (trialist), Chalmers, Crawford and Fitzpatrick Have not heard anything since the ICT game but sounded as if Diack had taken a bad injury so with striker looking like being the priority going in to the league cup games good to see Moore get a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 44 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: It’s not a sell on clause, it’s a development fee as he’s now changing football associations. Thanks , schoolboy error from the Club if they didn’t put a sell on clause in the deal . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 7 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Thanks , schoolboy error from the Club if they didn’t put a sell on clause in the deal . That would have come into play when Livvy sold him to Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 3 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Thanks , schoolboy error from the Club if they didn’t put a sell on clause in the deal . Was the deal not conditional to Tiffoney signing for us? Could be we couldn't write sell ons into contract. One thing it's another feather in our bow re our youth set up. Good selling point for future recruits when you can mention the likes of Nisbet, Hendry & Penrice coming thru our system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alb Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Thanks , schoolboy error from the Club if they didn’t put a sell on clause in the deal . And given he left us for livi, surely any sell on clause would be limited to what livi sold him for.... But given he left them for free, to join hearts at end of his contact that's probably where it would have ended without the development fees. I'm sure both us, livi and the thistle Weir academy all get money from that as he's moving to another country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 5 Report Share Posted July 5 5 minutes ago, Alb said: And given he left us for livi, surely any sell on clause would be limited to what livi sold him for.... But given he left them for free, to join hearts at end of his contact that's probably where it would have ended without the development fees. I'm sure both us, livi and the thistle Weir academy all get money from that as he's moving to another country Not sure that is right , if you look at Van Dijk going from Celtic to Southampton then to Liverpool and Celtic picking up add on fees for every transfer that is made . Obviously with Penrice going to Livi after running down his contract there would be no add ons but moving to Greece for a fee surely if we had a Sell on Clause it would be implemented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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