AGM Feedback

[Fawlty Towers]

As the Club AGM takes place this evening I just thought that having a thread where people could post any thoughts they had on it or queries for those who attended would be better than posts being spread around various other threads that touch on finances, etc.

[Fawlty Towers]

Hopefully it was an informative evening last night. I know TJF has asked for questions that people wanted asked and they normally provide an update on these fairly soon after the AGM so look forward to seeing that.

[Jordanhill Jag]

I will try and give a brief run down - and to put this into perspective the set of Accounts are the Second Highest Losses in Club History 

First thing of Note ~ is that there were No Minutes of the previous AGM - they were either not taken ~ or they were lost 

There was an attempt to Vote in the Board before the Accounts were approved - it had to be pointed out that Boards are voted based on the Financial Performance - and that the Accounts get approved first 

Then there was a Report on the Accounts - it was read out by the Auditor who has No role at PTFC beyond Auditing our Books - he simply read from the published Accounts - in the last 25 Years of attending AGMs-  the Club auditor has played no part in the AGM ? 

There was No report on the Finances from the Board - again unprecedented - when there was an attempt to ask Questions on the Finances from Shareholders - it was advised that there would be a Q&A Session at the end of the AGM 

Now this is important - the Shareholders legally have to approve the Accounts - yet were being blocked on asking Questions and were advised Questions could be asked at the end of the Meeting - so in essence - approve the Accounts without Questions - again unprecedented in our History.

It was pointed out that this wouldn't be happening 

Questions were asked of the Accounts by myself and couple of others   - No response from the Board in the Room - actual Silence - blank Stares - Donald McClymont attempted to respond as best he could from the US - but we had the bizarre position of a Mike being held up to a laptop - so hardly ideal - but at least he did try and respond  - Key questions on Finance and the response is from the other side of the World via a Mike on a laptop which you could hardly hear - it was farcical ( again not Donald McClymonts fault ) 

The whole Comms set up was shambolic in general 

Going back to those four Directors present - the Question was on Cash Reserves covering forecast losses - not complicated - but clearly they had no idea what the question was about 

In essence a number of Key points were established - when the £280K Budgeted loss was stated-  its unlikely that there was adequate cash reserve to cover the losses - which meant we were in danger of running out of cash  ( I did point this out at the time - but was in effect told to shut up)   

The justification was that Tranche 2 was covering it - but at that point Shareholders had not agreed to Tranche 2 - albeit we were advised there had been ongoing detailed discussions with the Trustees.

So if Tranche 2 wasn't voted through -  we could have gone bust.

In addition - the promises on the spend of Tranche 2 could never be fulfilled - because it was being used to cover Trading losses -again I attempted to point this out art the time - as it turned out the Trading losses were a lot Higher than forecast - so its pretty much gone 

So we sold off 10% of the Club with next to nothing to show for it - but no one is accountable ?  - a Big Boy did it and Ran away 

Again it should be emphasised - the Directors in the Room could not answer the Questions put to them on the Second Highest losses in our History and attempted to have the Accounts Voted through without Questions and had a Third Party ( unconnected to the Club ) read the Accounts 

Its also worth noting that when Votes were asked for to approve the Accounts and Vote in Directors - only those "for"  were asked for - even if there is a majority - Shareholders are entitled to Vote "against"  to show there disagreement - this was not allowed 

We were then given a Snapshot of the "5 Year Plan" - summed up - we are going to have Crowds of 6500-  and a Turnover of £6.5MN in 5 Years.  

I want to draw a comparison to the Jlo Board ~ they were hauled over the Coals for lesser losses - they did attempt to answer questions - albeit not very well - but they did try and answer them- they were then forced out the Door & mass protests ( I'm not arguing they should have remained ) - but these results are worse .

There seems to be different standards of expectation's from different Boards .   

It has become very clear that the Club AGM over the last couple of Years has become an inconvenience - all key decisions have already been taken in meetings with the Trustees prior to the AGM ~ the Directors see it as a pain that they have to go through the process of answering questions to people who they have no interest in  -to the extent that its lip service ~ or in the case of Finance ~Questions not answered at all 

As for the 5 Year Plan - its getting published in March - again Shareholders ( beyond TJF ) have no say on wither we agree with it.

The Board ( and most likely the Trustees ) will think Job Done - move on - but we recorded the Second Largest Loss in our History - and no one cared.

No one Responsible - No Apology - no Acknowledgement - NADA - don't even bother to answer questions.

    

 

 

                       

 

   

 

    

 

    

  

[Thistle_1876]

34 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I will try and give a brief run down - and to put this into perspective the set of Accounts are the Second Highest Losses in Club History 

First thing of Note ~ is that there were No Minutes of the previous AGM - they were either not taken ~ or they were lost 

There was an attempt to Vote in the Board before the Accounts were approved - it had to be pointed out that Boards are voted based on the Financial Performance - and that the Accounts get approved first 

Then there was a Report on the Accounts - it was read out by the Auditor who has No role at PTFC beyond Auditing our Books - he simply read from the published Accounts - in the last 25 Years of attending AGMs-  the Club auditor has played no part in the AGM ? 

There was No report on the Finances from the Board - again unprecedented - when there was an attempt to ask Questions on the Finances from Shareholders - it was advised that there would be a Q&A Session at the end of the AGM 

Now this is important - the Shareholders legally have to approve the Accounts - yet were being blocked on asking Questions and were advised Questions could be asked at the end of the Meeting - so in essence - approve the Accounts without Questions - again unprecedented in our History.

It was pointed out that this wouldn't be happening 

Questions were asked of the Accounts by myself and couple of others   - No response from the Board in the Room - actual Silence - blank Stares - Donald McClymont attempted to respond as best he could from the US - but we had the bizarre position of a Mike being held up to a laptop - so hardly ideal - but at least he did try and respond  - Key questions on Finance and the response is from the other side of the World via a Mike on a laptop which you could hardly hear - it was farcical ( again not Donald McClymonts fault ) 

The whole Comms set up was shambolic in general 

Going back to those four Directors present - the Question was on Cash Reserves covering forecast losses - not complicated - but clearly they had no idea what the question was about 

In essence a number of Key points were established - when the £280K Budgeted loss was stated-  its unlikely that there was adequate cash reserve to cover the losses - which meant we were in danger of running out of cash  ( I did point this out at the time - but was in effect told to shut up)   

The justification was that Tranche 2 was covering it - but at that point Shareholders had not agreed to Tranche 2 - albeit we were advised there had been ongoing detailed discussions with the Trustees.

So if Tranche 2 wasn't voted through -  we could have gone bust.

In addition - the promises on the spend of Tranche 2 could never be fulfilled - because it was being used to cover Trading losses -again I attempted to point this out art the time - as it turned out the Trading losses were a lot Higher than forecast - so its pretty much gone 

So we sold off 10% of the Club with next to nothing to show for it - but no one is accountable ?  - a Big Boy did it and Ran away 

Again it should be emphasised - the Directors in the Room could not answer the Questions put to them on the Second Highest losses in our History and attempted to have the Accounts Voted through without Questions and had a Third Party ( unconnected to the Club ) read the Accounts 

Its also worth noting that when Votes were asked for to approve the Accounts and Vote in Directors - only those "for"  were asked for - even if there is a majority - Shareholders are entitled to Vote "against"  to show there disagreement - this was not allowed 

We were then given a Snapshot of the "5 Year Plan" - summed up - we are going to have Crowds of 6500-  and a Turnover of £6.5MN in 5 Years.  

I want to draw a comparison to the Jlo Board ~ they were hauled over the Coals for lesser losses - they did attempt to answer questions - albeit not very well - but they did try and answer them- they were then forced out the Door & mass protests ( I'm not arguing they should have remained ) - but these results are worse .

There seems to be different standards of expectation's from different Boards .   

It has become very clear that the Club AGM over the last couple of Years has become an inconvenience - all key decisions have already been taken in meetings with the Trustees prior to the AGM ~ the Directors see it as a pain that they have to go through the process of answering questions to people who they have no interest in  -to the extent that its lip service ~ or in the case of Finance ~Questions not answered at all 

As for the 5 Year Plan - its getting published in March - again Shareholders ( beyond TJF ) have no say on wither we agree with it.

The Board ( and most likely the Trustees ) will think Job Done - move on - but we recorded the Second Largest Loss in our History - and no one cared.

No one Responsible - No Apology - no Acknowledgement - NADA - don't even bother to answer questions.

    

 

 

                       

 

   

 

    

 

    

  

This is very concerning

[Fawlty Towers]

Thanks Jim for taking the time to put that together and as Thistle_1876 said it is concerning.

Was anything said about a new GM/CEO and figures for this period (to 31st May 26)?

Edited February 13 by Fawlty Towers

[Jordanhill Jag]

27 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Thanks Jim for taking the time to put that together and as Thistle_1876 said it is concerning.

Was anything said about a new GM/CEO and figures for this period (to 31st May 26)?

They are targeting break even - but factoring in we are getting £250K + of Cup Money its near impossible not to + £60K from Tranche 2 also in this Season 

Still getting a CEO - no firm dates 

 

[KennyP]

At our peak Premier League days in 2016 we were getting about 4500 max, I think. March should be interesting.

[Jordanhill Jag]

8 minutes ago, KennyP said:

At our peak Premier League days in 2016 we were getting about 4500 max, I think. March should be interesting.

I think your going back more than 50 Years to get Crowds of 6500 - someone suggested as far back as the 1940s 

as for £6.5 MN turnover ? 

Edited February 13 by Jordanhill Jag

[Fawlty Towers]

An update here from the journalist James Cairney:

https://thethistle1876.substack.com/p/the-talking-points-from-partick-thistles

 

Edited February 13 by Fawlty Towers

[Fawlty Towers]

Having heard from JJ and now James Cairney it will be interesting to see TJF's response (and if the club put anything out).

One thing that struck me from James Cairney's piece was the lack of someone leading from the front. Yes there is a Board but over my time supporting the club there has normally always been that person you think of as being in charge - Jim Oliver, Allan Cowan, Tom Hughes, David Beattie, J Low. Now some of these people did well and others not so but at least their head was above the parapet. It used to be as well that on the club's website each director had a bio which stated what their area of responsiblity was - stadium, finance, etc.

Edited February 13 by Fawlty Towers

[Norgethistle]

39 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

An update here from the journalist James Cairney:

https://thethistle1876.substack.com/p/the-talking-points-from-partick-thistles

 

Would be nice if TJF had been able provide a feedback to its members the owners prior to a journalist doing so.

 

As a fan owned club, going forward these should be streamed to members

[Fawlty Towers]

1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

Would be nice if TJF had been able provide a feedback to its members the owners prior to a journalist doing so.

 

As a fan owned club, going forward these should be streamed to members

To be fair James is a journalist so that is his job whilst the TJF guys have their own jobs as well. I am sure they will put something out which addresses the questions people submitted to them in advance.

[Norgethistle]

2 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

To be fair James is a journalist so that is his job whilst the TJF guys have their own jobs as well. I am sure they will put something out which addresses the questions people submitted to them in advance.

It wasn’t a blame at TJF, it’s just disappointing that this couldn’t be streamed (Like TJF do) so all fan owners could hear what was discussed rather than hearing parts here and parts from James C

[scotty]

8 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

It wasn’t a blame at TJF, it’s just disappointing that this couldn’t be streamed (Like TJF do) so all fan owners could hear what was discussed rather than hearing parts here and parts from James C

I agree. Even as a counter to the first report on here which came from the point of view of someone who has always been opposed to fan ownership.

[Jordanhill Jag]

3 hours ago, scotty said:

I agree. Even as a counter to the first report on here which came from the point of view of someone who has always been opposed to fan ownership.

So you’re implying that the report on the AGM isn't true -because Im supposed to be against Fan Ownership ?

As it happens Im a member of TJF 

Being critical of how the Club is run -and the Boards relationship with TJF has nothing to do with Fan Ownership - it works perfectly well at Hearts - Motherwell and St Mirren 

 

[scotty]

20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So you’re implying that the report on the AGM isn't true -because Im supposed to be against Fan Ownership ?

As it happens Im a member of TJF 

Being critical of how the Club is run -and the Boards relationship with TJF has nothing to do with Fan Ownership - it works perfectly well at Hearts - Motherwell and St Mirren 

 

No. But you've never hidden your animosity towards fan ownership and your bias often is obvious.

[jagfox]

24 minutes ago, scotty said:

No. But you've never hidden your animosity towards fan ownership and your bias often is obvious.

To be fair to JJ the board and TJF have been conspicuously quiet on the subject apart from the finance update prior to the board meeting.

The club does seem a little bit rudderless at a boardroom level right now, which isn't great as we appear to be sailing into very choppy financial waters...

Edited February 14 by jagfox

[scotty]

20 minutes ago, jagfox said:

To be fair to JJ the board and TJF have been conspicuously quiet on the subject apart from the finance update prior to the board meeting.

The club does seem a little bit rudderless at a boardroom level right now, which isn't great as we appear to be sailing into very choppy financial waters...

And exactly why Norge's point about a live-stream or even a timely report would have been welcome.

[Ruchillnomore]

When you take a step back and look at it in a professional presentation to shareholders it is shambolic. The whole holding a mic to a laptop is not acceptable for a major business when presenting accounts. 
 

Do we not have an interactive large screen TV that would have allowed those online/teams to be able to present their points/views in a manner that would have been understood clearer by those present. 
 

personally I think the professional approach/presentation by Partick Thistle should/must be more tech and marketing friendly. 

[Norgethistle]

7 minutes ago, Ruchillnomore said:

When you take a step back and look at it in a professional presentation to shareholders it is shambolic. The whole holding a mic to a laptop is not acceptable for a major business when presenting accounts. 
 

Do we not have an interactive large screen TV that would have allowed those online/teams to be able to present their points/views in a manner that would have been understood clearer by those present. 
 

personally I think the professional approach/presentation by Partick Thistle should/must be more tech and marketing friendly. 

Setting up a teams call is simple, allows Donald to be seen and heard on big screen, fans to call in (but be restricted to listen only) and allow full interaction with shareholders in the room, plus being able to display information simply. 
 

TJF have done it before, the DSA have done it with AGM, both volunteer organizations, how the club can’t is beyond me

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Deleted as my comment made no sense!

Edited February 14 by Lambies Lost Doo

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, scotty said:

No. But you've never hidden your animosity towards fan ownership and your bias often is obvious.

Thats totally incorrect - I have questioned TJF and there cosy relationship with the Board meaning they backed decisions to the detriment of the Club - TJF and the concept of Fan Ownership are not the same thing 

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

That's a decent chunk of £ to be spent.

There was plenty of IT people at the AGM - no idea what they were doing 

[Norgethistle]

6 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

That's a decent chunk of £ to be spent.

The club has a teams account, there is also multiple screens in the Rough lounge used at hospitality plus a microphone used at hospitality.  So where that decent chunk of £ being spent on?

[Lambies Lost Doo]

11 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Deleted as my comment made no sense!

See above @Norgethistle👆👍

Edited February 14 by Lambies Lost Doo